800's to end in 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 20 2009, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I heard that Aspar should be in next year, possibly with two bikes and that there might be one more Honda. I'm gussing things will pan out about the same as this year in terms of numbers.
I hope so, although i would rather it not be another honda. When does suzuki's contract run out ? I will be surprised if they renew in the current financial climate. Not so long ago it was reported honda had serious financial problems. There workers in Swindon were all laid off for 3 months i think it was. Honda already have dorna by the short and curlys. Fielding more bikes give them more leverage over dorna. Honda customer bikes already have to have 1000rpm less then there factory team counterparts. More customer honda's is not good for the sport imo. They will be sole supplier fore moto2 engines and field 75% of motogp bike. sounds like a monopoly to me . pan out, i dont think so

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 20 2009, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I hope so, although i would rather it not be another honda. When does suzuki's contract run out ? I will be surprised if they renew in the current financial climate. Not so long ago it was reported honda had serious financial problems. There workers in Swindon were all laid off for 3 months i think it was. Honda already have dorna by the short and curlys. Fielding more bikes give them more leverage over dorna. Honda customer bikes already have to have 1000rpm less then there factory team counterparts. More customer honda's is not good for the sport imo. They will be sole supplier fore moto2 engines and field 75% of motogp bike. sounds like a monopoly to me . pan out, i dont think so

I would suggest more Yamahas but their hype is slowly starting to fizzle and I'm off that bandwagon. The private Yamahas of Tech3 aren't exactly full spec factory kits anymore and they run midpack just like everyone else with no shot to actually podium either.

One good thing is that Yamaha continue to wipe the floor of Honda in GP so I can't complain there

Edit: This should be a major consideration for Lorenzo though. To work for the team that is in charge of the series could mean some major benefits. Although we all know that in the end Rossi is in charge

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Jul 20 2009, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would suggest more Yamahas but their hype is slowly starting to fizzle and I'm off that bandwagon. The private Yamahas of Tech3 aren't exactly full spec factory kits anymore and they run midpack just like everyone else with no shot to actually podium either.

One good thing is that Yamaha continue to wipe the floor of Honda in GP so I can't complain there

Edit: This should be a major consideration for Lorenzo though. To work for the team that is in charge of the series could mean some major benefits. Although we all know that in the end Rossi is in charge

sounds like a que for the lex files

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 20 2009, 10:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>sounds like a que for the lex files

Isn't this what you were implying with your "monopoly" talk??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Jul 20 2009, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Isn't this what you were implying with your "monopoly" talk??
well we know what honda are like what with pushing for the 800 rule. Its never good when one team/make has so much pull it can get rules changed.. I am scared for the survival and integrity of our sport sometimes mate. Off topic in a way but i dont thing a control engine in moto2 is a good idea either.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 20 2009, 11:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well we know what honda are like what with pushing for the 800 rule. Its never good when one team/make has so much pull it can get rules changed.. I am scared for the survival and integrity of our sport sometimes mate. Off topic in a way but i dont thing a control engine in moto2 is a good idea either.

The integrity has been in question for the last 3-4 years IMO. Some may say that integrity was lost long ago. The reality is that Rossi is a major controller and Honda is a major controller in the sport. Which one is bigger is arguable. I know it's not a very popular thing here but the AMA and DMG are pushing very hard to get the control of the series out from the manufacturers and you can see it has been quite a fiasco but you can see that if you go too far one way or the other people start calling ........ on the sport. The survival of a lot of things are in question at the moment.

I disagree with you on MOTO2. I'm really looking forward to the series.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Jul 20 2009, 07:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The integrity has been in question for the last 3-4 years IMO. Some may say that integrity was lost long ago. The reality is that Rossi is a major controller and Honda is a major controller in the sport. Which one is bigger is arguable. I know it's not a very popular thing here but the AMA and DMG are pushing very hard to get the control of the series out from the manufacturers and you can see it has been quite a fiasco but you can see that if you go too far one way or the other people start calling ........ on the sport. The survival of a lot of things are in question at the moment.

I disagree with you on MOTO2. I'm really looking forward to the series.
on the first point i agree but think the 2 may cancel each other out in pull on dorna.

on moto 2, dont get me wrong sacky. im very much looking forward to it also. just worried about the big H taking over the world via the rear door. 2 problems , 1 if honda go bust every thing falls apart. 2 honda dont go bust but can dictate to dorna because without them it all falls apart. mabe im paranoid

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Jul 18 2009, 03:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>+100000 so true.....

there is 1 thing i hope doesnt happen and thats a single engine supplier... that would ruin everything.

990+ CC and less of the laptop stuff and il be happy

yes please!!!!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 20 2009, 01:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>on the first point i agree but think the 2 may cancel each other out in pull on dorna.

on moto 2, dont get me wrong sacky. im very much looking forward to it also. just worried about the big H taking over the world via the rear door. 2 problems , 1 if honda go bust every thing falls apart. 2 honda dont go bust but can dictate to dorna because without them it all falls apart. mabe im paranoid
I don't think supplying a control engine is that much of a vital position. Switching engine providers for a spec-engine series where you're building engines to an affordable price point isn't that huge of a deal. Sure, if they were to go away mid-season or something it'd be a blow, but switching providers between seasons wouldn't be a huge deal.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Jul 21 2009, 12:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think supplying a control engine is that much of a vital position. Switching engine providers for a spec-engine series where you're building engines to an affordable price point isn't that huge of a deal. Sure, if they were to go away mid-season or something it'd be a blow, but switching providers between seasons wouldn't be a huge deal.
Agreed. This gives Dorna more power in the future. The Moto1 concept will do the same.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Jul 21 2009, 01:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Agreed. This gives Dorna more power in the future. The Moto1 concept will do the same.
I think many people including me follow a particular marque as well as following individual riders. Dorna are no doubt caught between a rock and a hard place with the current cost structure in motogp unsustainable, but if the Moto 1 concept involves a single engine supplier I will be following ducati in wsbk rather than following motogp.

Surely Dorna won't pick one of the big four over the others. Isn't manufacturer money important for the series?

How awesome would it be if the Moto1 spec engine is the Desmosedici RR lump

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 20 2009, 08:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yeah i know mate. im just reading through all my old collage folders from yester year
heres a little tast for you berry, if you need more schooling i wont charge you much

this shoul;d give you an idea of some of the forces involved ant the difference between long and short stroke motors. None of this is googled !

Crank to reciprocating parts ratio.

1/3 rod weight + piston, ring,clips and pin. We will say for an example 500g.

<u>500g</u>
180 = 1.38g per degree

<u>500g</u>
90 = 5.55g per degree

<u>555g</u>
1.38g = 4.02 g average

4.02 x
<u>180</u>
723.6 grams

<u>723.6g</u>
500g = 1.44:1 ratio

This does not allow for length of crank throw. Crank throw is equal to half engine stroke.
Rod length is equal to 2 x engine stroke. A long stroke engine has a longer rod which at 90 and 270 will have less acute angle there for the piston will accelerate slower than a short stroke engine. A long stroke engine will also have a longer crank throw which means the crank weights are further away from the cranks centre axis which will have more leverage (inertia) giving the effect of a greater weight.


The conrod is normally 2 x the engines stroke. But in some casesa longer rod may be used. The advantage of this is the con rod has a less acute angle then the engine with the short rod.This wouls allow the engines revs to be increased . This engine would also have less vibration then the engine with the short rod.The long rod engine would also have a straighter reciprecating motion reducing piston, ring and liner wear. The disadvantage to this engine is it would have to be much taller making it less compactable and more expensive to produce due to the excess material needed.Also the long rod motor would be more suseptible to torchional stresses and would increase the weight of the reciprecation parts. So you see berry, its not so simple, its a real trade off. Reducing cc and keeping power involves a lot more than your brain can comprehend.




the numbers you quoted mean bugger all


but you started getting some of it right in the last paragraph.


But something drastic you are missing. They will match power with a 750, but you are treateing in as if each engine stroke will have the same torque as a bigger engine. I strongly doubt they will design for this. Instead they will not get greater torque, but will benefit from higher rev's to get the HP. This can't be achieved by raising conrod weights Rog.! If you think it can please show me how?

I'm not sure you are on track here Rog. ..... perhaps you are just arguming for the sake of arguing again because remember you were arguing that the parts will get bigger on a 750

Alex signed a new contract - yippieh

was already afraid he is jobless in 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jul 21 2009, 09:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

the numbers you quoted mean bugger all


but you started getting some of it right in the last paragraph.


But something drastic you are missing. They will match power with a 750, but you are treateing in as if each engine stroke will have the same torque as a bigger engine. I strongly doubt they will design for this. Instead they will not get greater torque, but will benefit from higher rev's to get the HP. This can't be achieved by raising conrod weights Rog.! If you think it can please show me how?

I'm not sure you are on track here Rog. ..... perhaps you are just arguming for the sake of arguing again

because remember you were arguing that the parts will get bigger on a 750 :huh:
Your a moron !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AlexdeAngelis-Fan @ Jul 21 2009, 03:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Alex signed a new contract - yippieh

was already afraid he is jobless in 2010

What team? Is this confirmed?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 21 2009, 10:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What team? Is this confirmed?
tom i think it's pramac.... not officialy confirmed yet but he'll take canepas place.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Jul 21 2009, 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>tom i think it's pramac.... not officialy confirmed yet but he'll take canepas place.

That sounds excellent. I don't think DeAngelis has done enough to warrent a promotion within Honda, so his best bet for success in motogp is to take the risk on a bike which can be incredible in the right hands. If he can't get on with the bike like everyone else i can't see he'd go much further back than he is now, he has little to lose.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 22 2009, 01:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Your a moron !


That may be so Rog. ..... but at least I'm a moron who knows a thing or two