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2021 Autodromo Internazionale del Mugello

Agreed mate. The Honda is not easy to ride and when he was fit before the accident, he could hustle the bike to win with his own amazing skills but not only is he not fit but the other bikes have moved on, as have the riders. His antics in qualifying, and the way he caused his own accident does not bode well.
 
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RaceFan59 said:
Agreed mate. The Honda is not easy to ride and when he was fit before the accident, he could hustle the bike to win with his own amazing skills but not only is he not fit but the other bikes have moved on, as have the riders. His antics in qualifying, and the way he caused his own accident does not bode well.
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HRC did it to themselves by putting all their eggs into the MM basket, and by having hired his brother to the factory squad last year.
They got no developement direction A.Marquez, and this year MM cant give them useful feedback, so they have to rely on P.Aspargus to give feedback while learning on the thing....
Maybe next contract time they wont just bet on one horse for their future....
 
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All the drama of MotoGP at one of the great tracks on a great day. Congrats to Fabs, he is maturing with superb performances. No excuses for the crashers, though Ducati shows promise in finally getting that bike to finish consistently at the front.

The background of Marquez’s mind games was fun to watch, I wonder if Mav will be able to ever shake the demons of inconsistency which honestly at this point must be laid at the feet of his apparently fragile state of mind. He’s on the same bike as the winner and has shown he can keep the pace.

Marquez, chinks in the armor. He has not changed tactics and is continuing to over ride the bike. The odds don’t favor that strategy going forward. Changing of the guard? I’d love to see him get back to his former form, as I think we’d see some great racing. I’m sure all the guys want him back in order to confirm how good they are......or not. Pol is showing I think the deficiencies of the Honda. I wonder what Marquez would look like on the Yamaha?

Zarco, still no win but he is showing strength and much improvement in results by finishing the races. Consistency is necessary over the long haul. His points total validates hie approach.

Looking like a great season!
 
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MigsAngel said:
HRC did it to themselves by putting all their eggs into the MM basket, and by having hired his brother to the factory squad last year.
They got no developement direction A.Marquez, and this year MM cant give them useful feedback, so they have to rely on P.Aspargus to give feedback while learning on the thing....
Maybe next contract time they wont just bet on one horse for their future....
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So true mate. MM delivered the results and it covered up the failings of the bike. All very good until you lose your rider. Now they are in a right pickle
 
Mick D said:
So happy to see three bright, young, talented, multilingual, respectful dudes on the podium... all of them were very eloquent and thoughtful in their interviews. Congrats to all.
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Totally true. While getting caught up in the racing, it’s good to see the great character of these young guns on display. It bodes well for the future!
 
Mick D said:
Nice thought but history says they will not.
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Not so sure mate. HRC can be very cut throat. They will not like what is happening. I dont think changes will be made this year but I expect rider changes for next year is MM does not get results before the end of the year.
 
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Bern1 said:
All the drama of MotoGP at one of the great tracks on a great day. Congrats to Fabs, he is maturing with superb performances. No excuses for the crashers, though Ducati shows promise in finally getting that bike to finish consistently at the front.

The background of Marquez’s mind games was fun to watch, I wonder if Mav will be able to ever shake the demons of inconsistency which honestly at this point must be laid at the feet of his apparently fragile state of mind. He’s on the same bike as the winner and has shown he can keep the pace.

Marquez, chinks in the armor. He has not changed tactics and is continuing to over ride the bike. The odds don’t favor that strategy going forward. Changing of the guard? I’d love to see him get back to his former form, as I think we’d see some great racing. I’m sure all the guys want him back in order to confirm how good they are......or not. Pol is showing I think the deficiencies of the Honda. I wonder what Marquez would look like on the Yamaha?

Zarco, still no win but he is showing strength and much improvement in results by finishing the races. Consistency is necessary over the long haul. His points total validates hie approach.

Looking like a great season!
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Nice summary mate. The only thing that does annoy me is the fact that Morbidelli is riding around on a two year old machine (23kph down on top speed) and doing an incredible job. Yamaha deserve to lose him which I believe they will before the end of the season.
 
RaceFan59 said:
Not so sure mate. HRC can be very cut throat. They will not like what is happening. I dont think changes will be made this year but I expect rider changes for next year is MM does not get results before the end of the year.
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At NO TIME in their history has Honda put human resources ahead of, nor anywhere in the neighbourhood of, engineering. You are betting on a losing horse.
 
The Honda was not deficient in Marc's hands.
It is just that nobody can ride like Marc was able to.
They weren't stupid to make a bike that works for Marc. 6 titles says they weren't.
Let's see how he goes toward the end of the season and next before we write him off ;)
If he can't get back history shows they are capable of making a machine another rider can win on.
 
warthog1 said:
The Honda was not deficient in Marc's hands.
It is just that nobody can ride like Marc was able to.
They weren't stupid to make a bike that works for Marc. 6 titles says they weren't.
Let's see how he goes toward the end of the season and next before we write him off ;)
If he can't get back history shows they are capable of making a machine another rider can win on.
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As you say, one can never write him off. He is an exceptional talent. I just think that the other bikes have improved significantly over the last two years and Honda have kind of stagnated.
 
Lot of folks were pegging Bagnaia as the fave, but Fab’s talent is undeniable and Yamaha thankfully got their .... together this year. KTM is matching the Ducati for top speed and Suzuki continues to be a jewel handling-wise, albeit down on top speed. Yet Ducati seems not to have progressed handling-wise in the last three years. So not surprised that Ducati was unable dominate at Mugello. I like Zarco and really feel he blew it by leaving KTM. I think he could have done good things with them if he’d stuck around.

Anyhoo... great race. So pleased that RD ended up revising the out of track limits ruling. Olivera was on it.
 
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Mick D said:
At NO TIME in their history has Honda put human resources ahead of, nor anywhere in the neighbourhood of, engineering. You are betting on a losing horse.
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I think that is what I was saying. They can be very cut throat if the riders are not getting the results. I dont know what Honda will do of course but at the moment they have big issues. MM was the only one who could ride the machine consistently fast and he is not fit. How can they develop a winning machine?
 
Keshav said:
Lot of folks were pegging Bagnaia as the fave, but Fab’s talent is undeniable and Yamaha thankfully got their .... together this year. KTM is matching the Ducati for top speed and Suzuki continues to be a jewel handling-wise, albeit down on top speed. Yet Ducati seems not to have progressed handling-wise in the last three years. So not surprised that Ducati was unable dominate at Mugello. I like Zarco and really feel he blew it by leaving KTM. I think he could have done good things with them if he’d stuck around.

Anyhoo... great race. So pleased that RD ended up revising the out of track limits ruling. Olivera was on it.
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I am happy that the revised the results but if Mir had been deducted first he would have moved to 4th and Zarco to 3rd. If Olivera was then penalized and dropped to 3rd then Zarco should have been 2nd. Seems like they discounted their own rules.
 
Doohan showed that he could ask for a change from Honda and get it. (Big Bang engine back.) His results and standing within the team gave him that capability.

Marquez could do the same. We know his skills as a rider. The question is, does he have the skills to move the development of the bike forward in his favor? This involves close communication and cooperation within the team between the rider and crew to determine possible improvements, then communication with the engineers to move the needle in testing and development in a direction that will bear fruit. No easy task and no sign that Marquez has this particular talent in spades like , say, Lorenzo or Doohan apparently did.

Marquez is riding the Honda like Gardner did, just get on it and ride it like it was a bucking bronco. Marquez may be a more gifted rider than Gardner, but that may not be enough any longer.
 
RaceFan59 said:
I am happy that the revised the results but if Mir had been deducted first he would have moved to 4th and Zarco to 3rd. If Olivera was then penalized and dropped to 3rd then Zarco should have been 2nd. Seems like they discounted their own rules.
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Yes, interesting point. Consistency with race direction is proving consistently inconsistent.
 
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warthog1 said:
The Honda was not deficient in Marc's hands.
It is just that nobody can ride like Marc was able to.
They weren't stupid to make a bike that works for Marc. 6 titles says they weren't.
Let's see how he goes toward the end of the season and next before we write him off ;)
If he can't get back history shows they are capable of making a machine another rider can win on.
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Respectfully disagree with your thinking mate. The bike handles like ..... Marquez could well have bagged those championships on a Yamaha or Ducati. It’s the same dynamic as when Stoner won on the Ducati. The bike was a crap-handling missile guided by an “Alien”. That’s why Honda were so eager to hire Stoner. Simply put, Honda is famous for paying wunderkind riders to make their poor handling bikes look good. The Honda engineers are legendarily almost cultishly arrogant, going back to when Spencer was racing for them and Erv Kanemoto secretly had a private company build chassis for Freddie’s bike because Honda engineers were deaf to his pleas for refinements in the chassis. IIRC - HRC fired him for doing so even tho Spencer won the championship, a pretty good illustration of just how bull-headed those guys can be.

Ducati people were not unalike, only starting to be open to outside input when all the Rossi-inspired sponsorship money started flowing in, with provisos of their acceptance of help from non-Italian engineers.
 
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