2010 second part: the "Mundialito"
- Thread starter J4rn0
- Start date
-
- Tags
- "mundialito" 2010 part
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Interesting bit by Rainey (from GPOne):
I think this championship is very exciting – the Californian told us – there have been a lot of injuries in the class, but you have four or five guys making every race, like it has always been... Rossi was forced into a mistake, and he made a mistake, not Lorenzo. I've had that situation in my career, where Mick had the injury and I caught up. Some people even mention that about Kevin, but you gotta be there to take advantage of the situation. Whoever is there on the bike, adding the points, that's the guy... Every riders job is to get the team to work for him. Rossi has been fighting for that and Lorenzo has also been fighting for that... If Rossi wins the next four races than Yamaha has a problem..."
That's exactly one of the points I raised when starting this thread...
I think this championship is very exciting – the Californian told us – there have been a lot of injuries in the class, but you have four or five guys making every race, like it has always been... Rossi was forced into a mistake, and he made a mistake, not Lorenzo. I've had that situation in my career, where Mick had the injury and I caught up. Some people even mention that about Kevin, but you gotta be there to take advantage of the situation. Whoever is there on the bike, adding the points, that's the guy... Every riders job is to get the team to work for him. Rossi has been fighting for that and Lorenzo has also been fighting for that... If Rossi wins the next four races than Yamaha has a problem..."
That's exactly one of the points I raised when starting this thread...
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
After Brno (unless Rossi has a third Yamaha with separate sponsorship) - it won't matter.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
You may be right. Yamaha have already chosen Lorenzo and as long as he wins the title, the rest ( they think) won't matter much. But is that corporate thinking or reality? That is the question.
It might be a coincidence, but all ex-racers who appeared at Laguna wearing their usual Yamaha colors (Rainey, Lawson, Roberts) have spoken like one man supporting Lorenzo
Clearly for them Rossi is the past; a past (they hope) won't haunt them too much. Their present is Lorenzo and they certainly count on him.
It might be a coincidence, but all ex-racers who appeared at Laguna wearing their usual Yamaha colors (Rainey, Lawson, Roberts) have spoken like one man supporting Lorenzo
Clearly for them Rossi is the past; a past (they hope) won't haunt them too much. Their present is Lorenzo and they certainly count on him.
Yes I agree with most of this, except that Yamaha already has a big problem, they have very quickly forgotten that two of the main contributing factors to their current 'Honda' like success are Valentino Rossi and Jeremy Burgess. Jorge Lorenzo is winning races-yes, on a bike he inherited and and now has mastered. No doubt Rainy and Lawson are very happy to see the demise of the Rossi/Yamaha relationship, now they are almost guaranteed to retain higher dollars as ex-champs for Yamaha without a retired GOAT around...........
Our memories are very short. Honda had complete domination of this series for nine years not too long ago, Yamaha has only really dominated the series IMO recently in 05, 08 and 09. In 2006 they botched the Chassis and coupled with Rossi stuffing around driving F1 cars instead of testing were completely outclassed that year by Honda and their stable package. 2007 they were caught with their pants down completely, as were Michelin, adding to this VR had the Tax man up his ... and CS shitting all over him on a very quick duck. All of these factors were contributing, but the most preeminent memory of that season is the Ducati accelerating past the Yamaha like it was in another class.........
Teams are certainly not perfect or removed from making very large blunders, although sometimes these decisions are unavoidable. Rossi's move from Honda in 2003 was unavoidable, he didn't like their methods and most were saying his success was predominantly due to the bike, so no offer would have retained his services. I believe Yamaha is in a similar situation, unfortunately Ben Spies hasn't had the time to really prove his worth and IMO if they went for VR and sacrificed JL-then Spies would be better off, still having a proven Rossi and Burgess to win titles and keep the thing in front. But turning your back on the current pace setter is also a very difficult thing to do.
IMO it seems they have taken a big gamble in choosing JL he has the pace at present but his development skills are unproven and his record is far removed from his team mate, Spies was clearly unhappy post-race Laguna with his bike and Colin has be scolding in his criticism for the Triple Tuning fork this year.
Will Spies will step up onto a title winning package with JL next year? With Stoner/Pedders at Honda, they will be stronger than recent past and very hard to beat week in week out. Adding to this Rossi potentially at Ducati with the full support of an entire country!! And another capacity change in just over 12 months, Yamaha should be concerned......their record for coming up with the goods straight out of the box after such changes is amongst the worst in the field-using 2007 and 2002 as examples.
Again time will tell, it will be interesting to see if Yamaha's hand was forced in their rider preference or if their hope/arrogance that they could retain the current top two riders in the world based on product was the underlying factor...........it seems though that they are now destined to sail in to very uncharted waters.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
You may be right. Yamaha have already chosen Lorenzo and as long as he wins the title, the rest ( they think) won't matter much. But is that corporate thinking or reality? That is the question.
It might be a coincidence, but all ex-racers who appeared at Laguna wearing their usual Yamaha colors (Rainey, Lawson, Roberts) have spoken like one man supporting Lorenzo
Clearly for them Rossi is the past; a past (they hope) won't haunt them too much. Their present is Lorenzo and they certainly count on him.
Exactly. Other than cases of lip-service PR - Japanese corporations are not exactly known for being sentimental.
They're cold-heartedly pragmatic. How else to explain their taking a two-year-old GP bike worth millions and
putting it in a crusher. You'd think at the very least some race loving executive would want one of the damned
things in their office as a paperweight or a coat rack. It'll be a hell of a loss publicity-wise not having Rossi around
at special Yamaha events with Rainey, Roberts, Lawson etc.
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
By the way, Ducati are selling their "old" bikes. Prices start at 350,000 Euros and can go up considerably according to conditions. They are currently selling the GP08 units, and demand far exceeds the availability .
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Another interesting opinion on the upcoming phase of the championship:
"Jorge Lorenzo is riding brilliantly and the stars seem to have aligned for him thus far. Following the race at Laguna, Carlo Pernati, famous MotoGP manager and columnist, dug a little deeper into the current grand prix scene for GPOne.com
"Today Lorenzo demonstrated that he is currently the strongest rider out there - Pernat told us after the race - even a fit Valentino, or Valentino from last year, would have struggled against Lorenzo today. But Valentino has declared war, we will see the sparks fly, and it will be a very tough battle."
Moving on to the rest of the field, he took particular notice of the situation at Honda.
"I feel a little sorry for Honda because they demonstrated that they have a good bike, but are maybe lacking the right rider. And that is where Stoner comes in. Pedrosa is always 'almost there', but never gets it together completely, and he crashes too much. Dovizioso has the tools, but can't seem to make the most of his ability. Honda are missing a rider that can fight for the title, and this is the added quality that Stoner will bring to the team."
"Four riders will be a lot for Honda to handle next year, but it will be an interesting battle. Next year should be a great championship, but the last nine races of this year should be interesting as well. At this pace Lorenzo can win the title at Aragon, and that would be a real triumph for him."
"Jorge Lorenzo is riding brilliantly and the stars seem to have aligned for him thus far. Following the race at Laguna, Carlo Pernati, famous MotoGP manager and columnist, dug a little deeper into the current grand prix scene for GPOne.com
"Today Lorenzo demonstrated that he is currently the strongest rider out there - Pernat told us after the race - even a fit Valentino, or Valentino from last year, would have struggled against Lorenzo today. But Valentino has declared war, we will see the sparks fly, and it will be a very tough battle."
Moving on to the rest of the field, he took particular notice of the situation at Honda.
"I feel a little sorry for Honda because they demonstrated that they have a good bike, but are maybe lacking the right rider. And that is where Stoner comes in. Pedrosa is always 'almost there', but never gets it together completely, and he crashes too much. Dovizioso has the tools, but can't seem to make the most of his ability. Honda are missing a rider that can fight for the title, and this is the added quality that Stoner will bring to the team."
"Four riders will be a lot for Honda to handle next year, but it will be an interesting battle. Next year should be a great championship, but the last nine races of this year should be interesting as well. At this pace Lorenzo can win the title at Aragon, and that would be a real triumph for him."
Thats a very big call??? A little overvaluation here for sure.......
Hasn't Stoner crashed more than Dani this year? Not to mention the 2 races Dani has won to Stoners 0. Dani also wooped both Jorge and Stoner in the 250's and barring 2007, both Dani and Stoner have proven that the step up to the top is a very large one.
If anything they are probably at equal odds with Honda next year.......some of these guys say sillier things than Barry! I wouldn't be writing off the midget
Thats a very big call??? A little overvaluation here for sure.......
Hasn't Stoner crashed more than Dani this year? Not to mention the 2 races Dani has won to Stoners 0. Dani also wooped both Jorge and Stoner in the 250's and barring 2007, both Dani and Stoner have proven that the step up to the top is a very large one.
If anything they are probably at equal odds with Honda next year.......some of these guys say sillier things than Barry! I wouldn't be writing off the midget
I know you guys would like to bar 2007 (and 2006 for that matter) but they actually did happen.
I would agree however eminent pernat is, his opinions are still that, opinions. I sometimes wonder whether those really intimately involved in sports are even more prejudiced than we fans; the records of ex-footballers and coaches in various football tipping competitions often suggests this is the case. Certainly arguing that lorenzo would have won laguna seca whatever valentino's circumstances is hypothetical, and probably as silly from the opposite point of view as those who have said stoner's and hayden's world championships don't really count . Personally if I was going to pick a race where lorenzo's performance was unchallengable by rossi in any circumstances it wouldn't be at laguna seca; although jorge rode flawlessly I seem to recall valentino transcending the limits of his bike at the same track in a fairly recent season.
I haven't been saying much about stoner partly because he is not giving me much to say this season, and because lorenzo's whole season and valentino's comeback are what imo are deserving of praise at present. He has doggedly developed the bike or developed/adapted his riding of it to the point where it is podium worthy, and oddly although not competitive for most of the season has not mentally disintegrated or developed any illnesses as he should inevitably have done going by the previous arguments of you and others . Whether he is holding ducati back or carrying them should not be a matter of conjecture for much longer, with this likely to be revealed perhaps as soon as the post valencia test, if valentino is allowed to test the gp10 there as is rumoured.
Imo all you can say is that lorenzo is putting together a season to rival the best seasons of any of the greats, as stoner did in 2007; dani has not done this yet. Whether either can go on to multiple championships like the greats, or display the bike development ability also possessed by most of the greats remains to be seen; lorenzo looks rather more likely at this point in time. I am hopeful about stoner at honda; it looks like a bike suited to him and certainly seems to have the best engine currently.
Yes indeedi, I just thought that this Journo's comments were very odd, citing Stoner's past form to qualify him to be a much greater threat than Dani at Honda next year, despite Dani having a far better record this year-and in the same breath saying that Jorge's current form would not have been challenged by a fully fit GOAT? Either extremely bias or a little bit Stoopid?
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Pernat is the manager of several riders in motoGP, most notably Capirossi: he's not a journalist. Anyway, I more or less agree with his opinions. Stoner is currently riding very "safe" (see how he "magically" found a few tenths of speed as soon as Rossi overtook him at Sachsenring) and you can expect him to find his speed again on the Honda, he's not lost it. And the shoulder injury, which is proving so slow to heal, was enough to keep Vale behind Lorenzo. Even a fully fit Rossi would have found it more difficult to beat Lorenzo this year, but nobody can say he wouldn't have been able to do it. It would have been a really great season, now we'll have to content ourselves with the reduced version of that challenge.
It would have been a really great season, now we'll have to content ourselves with the reduced version of that challenge.
It is the nature of motorcycle racing that close to EVERY season is reduced in some way by crashes and injury, that is why its so important not to make mistakes and hurt yourself. Hell if Lorenzo hadn't broken his hand pre-season Rossi might still have been on zero wins. Last year was reduced by Casey's illness, and plenty more seasons before that have been similar. It happens
Pernat is the manager of several riders in motoGP, most notably Capirossi: he's not a journalist. Anyway, I more or less agree with his opinions. Stoner is currently riding very "safe" (see how he "magically" found a few tenths of speed as soon as Rossi overtook him at Sachsenring) and you can expect him to find his speed again on the Honda, he's not lost it. And the shoulder injury, which is proving so slow to heal, was enough to keep Vale behind Lorenzo. Even a fully fit Rossi would have found it more difficult to beat Lorenzo this year, but nobody can say he wouldn't have been able to do it. It would have been a really great season, now we'll have to content ourselves with the reduced version of that challenge.
I knew he was loris's manager, who else does he manage?
I actually also agree with his opinion on pedrosa v stoner, but I realise I am not unbiased. Regardless of the presence or absence of a mechanical advantage whether easily exploited or not, Stoner exhibited absolutely inhuman focus resulting in his consistency in 2007; whether he can regain or repeat this given how poorly he coped with the media response to his feat is in question, but if he has good early results with hrc I would not rule it out. Lorenzo has been fabulously consistent this year and seems a cooler customer than casey. Whilst pedrosa is undoubtedly fast and talented I agree with others that he has not as yet demonstrated the capacity to perform really consistently over a season in the premier class .
I did agree with talpa that it was a big call to say rossi at his best could not have beaten lorenzo at laguna seca this year on the same or a similar bike, particularly given valentino's performance in 2008 , great though jorge's ride was.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
No need to wonder about such "maybecouldabeens", Lorenzo finished the race approx. 10 seconds faster than Rossi's 08 race win.
Rossi was 3 seconds slower in 2010 than 2008 .......... Lorenzo is faster.
Case closed
As for Stoner taking it easy ........ check out the Circuit record for Laguna ........ Stoner 2010
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
No need to wonder about such "maybecouldabeens", Lorenzo finished the race approx. 10 seconds faster than Rossi's 08 race win.
Rossi was 3 seconds slower in 2010 than 2008 .......... Lorenzo is faster.
Case closed
As for Stoner taking it easy ........ check out the Circuit record for Laguna ........ Stoner 2010
You are always short of ideas, but when you have one it is usually wrong
2008 was a really tough duel, it's only natural that riding pretty much alone, 2 years later, a rider like Lorenzo can achieve a faster race time. As it is natural that Rossi, in his physical condition, might be 3 seconds slower than 2008.
Even if you are called machine I am surprised at the way you can apply your obtuse bias so mechanically.
P.S. -- Stoner: I am not suprised that he can pull some really fast laps any time. But it is so evident that he is not pushing all the way... One fast lap does not mean a fast race: again, wrong idea.
You are always short of ideas, but when you have one it is usually wrong
2008 was a really tough duel, it's only natural that riding pretty much alone, 2 years later, a rider like Lorenzo can achieve a faster race time. As it is natural that Rossi, in his physical condition, might be 3 seconds slower than 2008.
Even if you are called machine I am surprised at the way you can apply your obtuse bias so mechanically.
P.S. -- Stoner: I am not suprised that he can pull some really fast laps any time. But it is so evident that he is not pushing all the way... One fast lap does not mean a fast race: again, wrong idea.
Not too mention different/better rubber...........his idiocy remains a source of a little humour though.......
at the moment there are some cold wars going on in Motogp, one is between Ducati and Stoner; they made pictures without Casey, just to tell him that he isn't a friend of the Ducati familly anymore, and the other war is between Rossi and Yamaha, after watching the 3 Yamaha champs in Laguna Seca and their support for Horhay, the first thing jumped to my mind was that Yamaha is telling Rossi; we dont care whatever you decide, Or; now that you have chosen for Ducati, we show you that we dont need you anyway.
on the subject of this thread,
well, i dont think Lorenzo will care too much for losing some races to Rossi, As long as he takes care of the championship.
I know, all the races are important for riders, but when it comes to winning the championship, wise riders will concentrate on doing that job rather than choosing for a duel with another rival, as we have seen it from Rossi before, and Lorenzo also is wise enough for avoiding that. While he has too many points in his pokket and he can afford to lose some of it if he wants.
At this moment, Lorenzo will stay focus on winning this championship, and when he has won it, he will duel with Rossi, but whatever the result of that will be, none of them will/can rely on it as a psychological advantage for the next year's championship. Untill next year they will find themselves back and ready for a new challenge again, especially if Rossi rides on a Ducati.
But that can surely add more excitment for us, and i wish, we'll see some tough battles between them before and after he wins this championship.
on the subject of this thread,
well, i dont think Lorenzo will care too much for losing some races to Rossi, As long as he takes care of the championship.
I know, all the races are important for riders, but when it comes to winning the championship, wise riders will concentrate on doing that job rather than choosing for a duel with another rival, as we have seen it from Rossi before, and Lorenzo also is wise enough for avoiding that. While he has too many points in his pokket and he can afford to lose some of it if he wants.
At this moment, Lorenzo will stay focus on winning this championship, and when he has won it, he will duel with Rossi, but whatever the result of that will be, none of them will/can rely on it as a psychological advantage for the next year's championship. Untill next year they will find themselves back and ready for a new challenge again, especially if Rossi rides on a Ducati.
But that can surely add more excitment for us, and i wish, we'll see some tough battles between them before and after he wins this championship.
What an absolute load of tripe.
I watched an interview with Vitto Guareschi the current team manager at Ducati & he said he was very sad that Stoner would not be at Ducati next year.
He said he will always consider him a great friend & hopes one day he will return to Ducati.
Oh and if you think Yamaha don't want Vale to sign on the dotted line for them you are crazy.
Yes they may be resigned to the fact they are losing him, but it's not the way they hoped it would turn out by any stretch of the imagination.
Stop with the crap, you have absolutely no idea what is going on inside those teams so you decided you would make it up instead.
One of them on the basis of one picture. Unbelievable.
