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Only 2 Honda Riders yet to win a race in 2016

Gaz

Joined Jul 2007
6K Posts | 3K+
Maitland way
Yep, only 2 riders of Honda's are yet to win a race in 2016.

Pedrosa
Rabat

Could this be the first year in MotoGP where Dani does not get a race win?

Will Rabat somehow listen to Harry (was it Harry?) and learn to ride well enough to win one, thus leaving Pedrosa as the only Honda guy yet to stand on the top step in 2016 (not that he will be much taller)

All BS of course but just an interesting little sideline to the season


Edited to add that after checking, Dani's only year in GP's without a win was his debut year in 2001 .......... long time
 
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HarryJones05 was Tito's mate...maybe he needs to give him a few pointers.
 
Tito's performance has been really a disappointment given the amount of work he has been putting in. I wonder how his psych changes when Zarco and Rins join the GP next year.
 
Dani has been very unfortunate with the direction of development at HRC this year, I hope to see a win but it's looking less likely each race. There's always next year though.
 
Dani has been very unfortunate with the direction of development at HRC this year, I hope to see a win but it's looking less likely each race. There's always next year though.
Zero to do with HRC development and all to do with 1.always being paired with a superior teammate (which has always prevented him from winning a championship and will continue), 2 Michelin's that follow Rossi's development lead.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.
 
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Zero to do with HRC development and all to do with 1.always being paired with a superior teammate (which has always prevented him from winning a championship and will continue), 2 Michelin's that follow Rossi's development lead.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

He has been with MM a few years now and this is his worst by far, so to me that says the bike is the main issue.
 
He has been with MM a few years now and this is his worst by far, so to me that says the bike is the main issue.
That's interesting logic since there are 4 HRC/RCV titles of which the machine available to the eventual champion was also decidedly available to Pedrosa. Add to this, one year for which he came runner-up (of the 4 times he's come 2nd) the RCV was 'nick'named the Pedrocycle...because it was designed around his specifications. I can't think of any year he wasn't provides with a championship contending machine. Not even 2016...when you consider the Honda RCV is leading the championship by the maximum of two whole race wins, not to mention two wins by two unlikely satellite riders.

So let me get this straight, you blame the machine he rides knowing that 3 different men riding the same or worse version of the bike he rides have won as the culprit holding him back? Fascinating. Please explain.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.
 
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That's interesting logic since there are 4 HRC/RCV titles of which the machine available to the eventual champion was also decidedly available to Pedrosa. Add to this, one year for which he came runner-up (of the 4 times he's come 2nd) the RCV was 'nick'named the Pedrocycle...because it was designed around his specifications. I can't think of any year he wasn't provides with a championship contending machine. Not even 2016...when you consider the Honda RCV is leading the championship by the maximum of two whole race wins, not to mention two wins by two unlikely satellite riders.

So let me get this straight, you blame the machine he rides knowing that 3 different men riding the same or worse version of the bike he rides have won as the culprit holding him back? Fascinating. Please explain.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.
Explanation --- you're thinking about titles and I'm on about race wins which Dani has had plenty of before this year, so whilst the previous iterations of the RCV obviously worked for others Dani also enjoyed much success on it. Not so this season, and apart from Cal and Jack's rain wins no Honda rider is doing much.
Apart from MM.
 
Explanation --- you're thinking about titles and I'm on about race wins which Dani has had plenty of before this year, so whilst the previous iterations of the RCV obviously worked for others Dani also enjoyed much success on it. Not so this season, and apart from Cal and Jack's rain wins no Honda rider is doing much.
Apart from MM.

Ah, you're talking about race "wins". I don't think we should shelve the fact two satellite RCVs have won, albiet in the rain; since you hypothesize the machine is Pedrosa's handicap. Why do you suppose then is the reason these inferior riders were able to beat Pedrosa on an inferior version of his own bike? Wouldn't a more logical hypothesis point to the tires? After all, this IS supposed to be an identical piece of equipment all the Honda riders use. It's like the perfect control group in an experiment. However, you hypothesize that his superior machine (and army of factory HRC techs, not to mention a plethora of RCV experience) is the culprit of his lack of results and not the spec tire?

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.
 
The question to ask is. Why is that what would be consider the worst satellite bike on the grind won twice? Shouldn't the mighty m1 be the one??????
 
The question to ask is. Why is that what would be consider the worst satellite bike on the grind won twice? Shouldn't the mighty m1 be the one??????

Damn thats deep like tree falling in the wood deep. The only answer I have is Cal's answer and thats that him and billygoat are by far the best riders on the grid. They are just playin with the kids.
 
Forgetting circumstances in Assen and Brno could the Honda be slightly better in the wet conditions because it gets more heat into the front? The Duc satellite seems to be the one to have in the wet though.
 
I don't know if it already happened before. but this season is the first time I see Dani lose his cool on his performance. from 2012 was his best (332 pts), and a year after his performa start to declining (300 pts). you might include 2013 was also his best performa despite his injury (what if he's not injured?)

and Dani is not a "media-framer". he's not much gave sugar-coating to the media, he's just talk on the necessary things.

my point is, I think his declining performa has something to do with Marc's RCV's development direction. probably it all started in 2014, when Alzamora successfully convinced honda to change MM mechanic crews with MM's liking preference. Alzamora might also convinced honda to ignored Stoner's input, and of course Dani's input. that year I had big expectation on Stefan Bradl and Alvaro Bautista, because a year before the satelite hondas did pretty well battling with VALENTINO ROSSI. but in 2014, they were not even close to satelite yamahas. its just suddenly all the honda rider was fall behind, except MM of course with 10 consecutive wins.

I think Kropo already wrote about "2014 honda" somewhere.
 
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Rabat's totally out of his depth in motogp and as for Pedrosa perhaps he should go and race moto 3 and then he might win a championship?, cos he's never gonna get one in the top class as everybody's always saying he's too small to get any heat in his tyres,sounds stupid but it's not as stupid as giving him a full factory Honda for 10 years running.
 
Yes, if it doesn't fit your narrative call it comedy, G-E-N-I-U-S :rolleyes:

Well, to be fair you've so far done a poor job of building your case. Frankly, HelloMars, who barely speaks English has constructed a far more convincing and articulate post that the RCV is developed away from Pedrosa's suitability. Nonetheless, your contention is that the "development" direction is Dani's handicap, how do you explain Pedrosa's best performance was at the tail end of last year, WHEN development outcomes were at their peak (according to you decide in favor of Marc)? Doesn't it seem illogical that when development had progressed to suit Marquez throughout the year is when Pedrosa did best? That doesn't make sense, does it?

Again, I contend it's the dramatic change in tires and .... all to do with the RCV and the development direction. The dramatic plunge of Pedrosa, from being the rider with the overall best performance in the last 5 races last year to now hanging on to midpack coincides with one glaring change: MISHITLIN tires.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.
 
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As stated, Dani’s performance has plummeted since the back end of last season when fresh from his CTS surgery he looked reborn. Aragon ’15 was one of the most impressive races I’ve seen him run in his career and certainly in the premier class – so what’s changed? One would be tempted to solely attribute this to the new tyres, but in addition to this we also have a new engine with counter rotating crankshaft and control ECU software in addition to the myriad of changes associated with a prototype series. Very often, as Lorenzo’s detractors are fond of pointing out, a slump in form is simply attributed to psychological aversions and a lack of adaptability – but certainly, if the bike isn’t coming to you, if you have no feel not only are you going to be slow but your confidence is shot. As ever, I don’t think you can isolate a sole factor in this. It’s a range of variables – some more significant that others but without doubt, a complex interrelated factors involving rider, style, set up and machinery.

As Pov immediately highlighted at Qatar, Honda were woefully down on acceleration from the off which I think has been a hugely significant change. It’s not as though they are deficient in horsepower, the bike pulls well in higher gears, it’s getting it to the ground out of a corner (a particular strength of the Yamaha’s from last season), and that drive is hampered by inconsistent delivery. So why does this afflict Pedrosa who is only marginally lighter than Márquez and given that both are afflicted by corner exit wheelies?

Tyres? I would suggest that Marc’s front loaded style allows him to run a more optimal balance than Pedrosa. The increased grip afforded by the Michelin rear means that the rear wheel can be seated further back and it’s probable that Marc’s front heavy style allows him to run a longer bike than Pedrosa. That’s what I’m seeing anyway. Less wheelies, improved drive.

Last year, I maintained that the RCV was not only the hardest bike to ride on the grid, but as a consequence, the most difficult to master and go fast on. Despite his diminutive size, Márquez excels at muscling the beast around a circuit and like Stoner, flirting with the limits and taking the bike beyond the envelope that many other riders feel comfortable in (witness his incredible save last weekend at Brno). On the Bridgestones, many riders tried to emulate Lorenzo’s insanely fast corner speed and fluid smooth riding…they understand what he does but the machine set up is so alien and unorthodox that they are unable to duplicate it. Similarly, when following Rossi in his maiden year, Ben Spies said that he understood what he was doing, he just lacked the talent and experience to do it yet. But, when following Stoner, he was utterly unable to comprehend how anyone was able to ride a motorcycle in the way that he did. Some have made the same observations about Márquez. The only other rider that I can think of that elicited similar laudable respect from his peers other than Mike Hailwood, was Eddie Lawson.

Strange then that Pedrosa’s style has often been branded ‘Lawson-esque’. However, he has had to depart from his preferred smooth style charateristic of the 800cc formula – which as Jum correctly observes, was tailor made for him together with the bike. Another very significant point made by Jumkie is that Dani has been forced to sacrifice some of his finesse to adapt to a brutal, rawer and less refined RCV under the lead of Stoner and now Marquez. Incidentally, I originally coined the phrase ‘Pedrocycle’ later becoming part of the ‘Powerslide’ vernacular. So named because the dimensions of the woeful RCV212 were made to measure and completely screwed the defending champion who with his broad frame discovered that overnight cramming onto this toy, he had the aerodynamic qualities of a breeze block. Pedrosa lacks the physicality of Márquez and certainly struggles to compensate for the deficiencies of the RCV by overriding it. Crutchlow rides as hard as anyone but by his own admission is not as good as Marc which means he’s either very fast or in a smoldering heap in the gravel.

To me, in spite of as Jum mentions the army of HRC engineers availed to Dani - clambering over his bike at every available opportunity; like their satellite counterparts, they seem to be suffering more than any other marque with the mandatory software. Each circuit seems to throw up a different problem at which point, the finicky and temperamental RCV refuses to be tamed and tweaked, not responding to the cruder refinements from the reversion to prehistoric software and the characteristic pumping which as dialed out under the old sophisticated electronics once again plagues the rider. At Le Mans, a succession of short acceleration corners in lower gears cursed them with wheelies; in Mugello, where the corners are more flowing and sequential, problems arose at the corner exits when the Honda became very unstable as the riders tried to apply available power and at Red Bull Ring it was traction again out of the stop and go corners – traditionally a Honda hunting ground. Moreover, when the temperature drops, Dani in particular struggles to get heat into the new Michelin’s – a harder feat than the Bridgestones. There is an abundance of power still – the loss from the backwards crankshaft is negligible.

Nakamoto insists that it’s not the tyres but the electronics that have hammered a world beating machine into submission and emasculated the once indomitable all-conquering 2013 RCV. He would say that, but he is also adamant that there have been very few changes to the RCV since then. I’m sure Marc for one would beg to differ. He also maintains that the open class RC213v RS models ridden by Hayden and Miller last year in spite of the head start on the software packages yielded little in the way of useable data because this year’s software bears no resemblance. That’s strange, Ducati claim otherwise. Perhaps it was more to do with the fact that you put your riders out on machinery that would struggle to qualify on a WSB grid and bore about as much resemblance to fully fledged prototype factory Repsol ride as Barry’s Hyosong.

Honda have tested on the new Michelin’s using the old custom electronics and are able to surmount many of the problems – but significantly Pedrosa was not. Like I say, there is an abundance of power, they simply can’t get it to ground using the new mandated package.

In my opinion, although a contributory factor, purely attributing Pedrosa’s slump in fortunes to the reversion to Michelin tyres is a false cause fallacy.

What’s the title of this thread again? Oh yeah…’Only two Honda riders yet to win a race in 2016’. Although both masterful displays of wet weather riding, Miller prevailed in a restarted short sprint lottery in horrendous conditions and Crutchlow gambled on a successful formula which only one other rider elected to run. Rabat is neither as opportunistic or capable of being as fast as Cal or Jack. And what of the phlegmatic Pedrosa? – He remains pragmatic as ever, but aside from the current maladies, he fears for the future holding that the bike is nearing the end of its development cycle. Perhaps in this particular case, such speculation over shelf life is more applicable to the rider.
 
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