Worst title defence in GP history

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Mar 11 2007, 07:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As I said in the summer, he should have went to Ducati.

Yes it looks now like a very smart move now. But back in contract time last year, things would have looked different. Put in the decision between HRC and Ducati, almost every rider in the championship would have chosen HRC, and rightly so because of their record in the past and the things they can do.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 11 2007, 09:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>your not wrong there mate,looking at how bloody strong the duc was. its funny how where debating the rossi vs hayden thing will all love to scrap over but thats not forget stoner leads the championship and if you say its only one race there plenty of time for things to change than we cant read to much into haystacks poor performance or rossis ....... slow bike. roll on jerez.
Agreed. Off to Jerez!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Mar 11 2007, 09:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What's with me... it must be this waking up a 4am and not being able to sleep early the night before... Sorry, I meant Melandri!

No worries.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 11 2007, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes it looks now like a very smart move now. But back in contract time last year, things would have looked different. Put in the decision between HRC and Ducati, almost every rider in the championship would have chosen HRC, and rightly so because of their record in the past and the things they can do.

So then which bike was better Tom?

I mean, for the 'crapy' or 'not crapy' bike comparison!

The Ducati looked like it was definately the better bike this weekend. But with the evidence and experience that riders could call upon when they signed contracts in 2006, all the clever signatures would be with HRC

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 12 2007, 02:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Ducati looked like it was definately the better bike this weekend. But with the evidence and experience that riders could call upon when they signed contracts in 2006, all the clever signatures would be with HRC

I guess it did not come out right… So then which bike was better (back then during ’06) Tom? I mean, for the 'crapy' or 'not crapy' bike comparison and debate that we had for over 4 months (which has not finished for some, but please, let’s start a fresh season) argument…

I don't understand your point. Going into a new era and rule change, all smart money goes to HRC. Look what happened in 2002, and how the v5 honda was easily the best bike of the entire 990cc era. That with the support of the nsr 500 being the most successful race bike ever(wasn't it?). Honda always have been the bike to have, and that may not be the case now, but back last year most people would have predicted it to be.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 12 2007, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't understand your point. Going into a new era and rule change, all smart money goes to HRC. Look what happened in 2002, and how the v5 honda was easily the best bike of the entire 990cc era. That with the support of the nsr 500 being the most successful race bike ever(wasn't it?). Honda always have been the bike to have, and that may not be the case now, but back last year most people would have predicted it to be.
There is that aspect of confidence in Honda to produce a bike to come out of the box and instantly dominate a new formula. At the same time, I still wanted Hayden to go to Ducati. They were instantly competitive when they joined in 2003. Perhaps not dominant like Honda, but capable of race wins. That coupled with the fact that I feel Hayden has been left out to dry by HRC on multiple occasions, I wanted him going to Ducati 100 percent. And if that didn't happen I wanted him to team with Rossi at Yamaha.

Staying with Honda was the worst decision Hayden has made/will make in his Grand Prix career. Because I honestly believe it's only a matter of time before Honda does what everyone thinks they will do, cater exclusively to Pedrosa. And at that point Hayden will be left out to dry and likely without the bargaining strength he had in 2006.

^^ Why would Honda do that? They're always harping on about how it's the bike not the rider. So 'catering exclusively' to pedrosa hardly makes sense. Really now, if you had the world champion on your team, would you be deliberately setting him up to fail? After all what Honda want are riders on the podium. Three of them preferably.

And Dani hardly big enough to fill one space

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Mar 12 2007, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>^^ Why would Honda do that? They're always harping on about how it's the bike not the rider. So 'catering exclusively' to pedrosa hardly makes sense. Really now, if you had the world champion on your team, would you be deliberately setting him up to fail? After all what Honda want are riders on the podium. Three of them preferably.

And Dani hardly big enough to fill one space
Because Hayden isn't the man they want. Don't get me wrong, they won't sabotage him, he's the champ and I'm sure all the boys in Japan love the look of that number one plate on a Honda. But with the design of the 212, it is clear to me that the bike is designed for a smaller rider. And it just so happens that Honda currently employ one of the smallest riders in the paddock who happens to be billed as 'the next big thing'. No pun intended.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Mar 12 2007, 04:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Because Hayden isn't the man they want. Don't get me wrong, they won't sabotage him, he's the champ and I'm sure all the boys in Japan love the look of that number one plate on a Honda. But with the design of the 212, it is clear to me that the bike is designed for a smaller rider. And it just so happens that Honda currently employ one of the smallest riders in the paddock who happens to be billed as 'the next big thing'. No pun intended.


Pedrosa, the next big thing, I like that...

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Mar 12 2007, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pedrosa, the next big thing, I like that...

Pete
Thank you. Although I'm sure I ripped it off from somewhere.

Still doesn't make sense to me. Sounds all a bit too conspiracy-theory-ish to me. Twould make more sense to build their bike around a more average sized rider than put all their eggs into that one very tiny basket. You say Hayden isn't the man they want so presumably Pedrosa is 'what they want'. I would imagine what they want is to win races. I fail to see the logic of making a bike to fit him and only him.

They want a bike that is the correct size for Pedrosa, Melandri, Dovi, Aoyama, Nakano and Elias. Rather than building one for Hayden and Checa and letting the others struggle. Its pretty standard.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 12 2007, 04:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They want a bike that is the correct size for Pedrosa, Melandri, Dovi, Aoyama, Nakano and Elias. Rather than building one for Hayden and Checa and letting the others struggle. Its pretty standard.
according to toby and juels on eurosport the rc211v and rc212v are the exact same size it just looks smaller because of the tail piece. somebody posted a really nice pic of hayden on the new 212v and i must say,it did not look like he was on a bike thats to small for him, i also heard that honda had modified the fairing to suit hayden as he has slightly broarder shoulders.
sorry but i just dont buy into this "honda build the bike for dani" ..... and poor haystack has to make do.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 12 2007, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>according to toby and juels on eurosport the rc211v and rc212v are the exact same size it just looks smaller because of the tail piece. somebody posted a really nice pic of hayden on the new 212v and i must say,it did not look like he was on a bike thats to small for him, i also heard that honda had modified the fairing to suit hayden as he has slightly broarder shoulders.
sorry but i just dont buy into this "honda build the bike for dani" ..... and poor haystack has to make do.

I dont think it is anywhere near as much of an issue as people say either. The wheelbase like you say is apparently near identical, and now Hayden has bigger fairing made for him there isn't much to be said about it. I think the riding position is a bit smaller on the new bike because pedrosas arms look less stretched, and he can touch the floor more comfortably. But it certainly isn't the cause of much concern for Nicky or other big riders.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 12 2007, 05:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They want a bike that is the correct size for Pedrosa, Melandri, Dovi, Aoyama, Nakano and Elias. Rather than building one for Hayden and Checa and letting the others struggle. Its pretty standard.

Hmm...so let' see the great wisdom behind this:
Dani - 158cm
Toni - 163cm (+5 from Dani...-10 from Nicky)
Dovi - 164cm (+6 and -9)
Aoyama - 165cm (+7 and -8) Can u guess where I'm going with this?
Shinya - 167cm (+9 and -6)
Marco - 168cm (+10 and -5)
Nicky - 173cm

If I could plot a graph for you here, you'd see this is a perfectly symmetrical distribution of heights. I'm sure the Japanese brains can get this far. It's not like there's all these little riders and a couple of huge ones. Who they REALLY should be building a bike for is AverageAoyama, not little Dani, who's as far away in size from the next smallest as Nicky is from Marco. If we were to throw Checa (174cm) - who admittedly they're not building a bike for- into the equation the balance would shift even further away from Dani. Any better conspiracy theory you can come up with?

Read above, i think the bike is built for an average rider, nicky is a little too big in the shoulders but this problem is being dealt with. Like i said, honda wants a bike that their riders can ride. I think Nicky looked like he fitted the v5 pretty well, but Dani was too small for that. The size of the new bike is very logical.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Mar 12 2007, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hmm...so let' see the great wisdom behind this:
Dani - 158cm
Toni - 163cm (+5 from Dani...-10 from Nicky)
Dovi - 164cm (+6 and -9)
Aoyama - 165cm (+7 and -8) Can u guess where I'm going with this?
Shinya - 167cm (+9 and -6)
Marco - 168cm (+10 and -5)
Nicky - 173cm

If I could plot a graph for you here, you'd see this is a perfectly symmetrical distribution of heights. I'm sure the Japanese brains can get this far. It's not like there's all these little riders and a couple of huge ones. Who they REALLY should be building a bike for is AverageAoyama, not little Dani, who's as far away in size from the next smallest as Nicky is from Marco. If we were to throw Checa (174cm) - who admittedly they're not building a bike for- into the equation the balance would shift even further away from Dani. Any better conspiracy theory you can come up with?
thats bloody interesting. i like it

Hehe...sorry Rog...degree in Physics makes you turn everything into graphs!!! LOL!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Mar 12 2007, 11:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hehe...sorry Rog...degree in Physics makes you turn everything into graphs!!! LOL!
bet all your boyfriends were not happy about that

as lock would say...ill get my coat and join frosty in the gutter