Worst title defence in GP history

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Mar 8 2007, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yamaha got it wrong, plain and simple, there was no laziness or complacency from Rossi.

HAHA, this is laughable. Rossi made some poor decisions, made some mistakes and after making up for it, still chucked it away.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 8 2007, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>HAHA, this is laughable. Rossi made some poor decisions, made some mistakes and after making up for it, still chucked it away.
Oh really? I was almost convinced (not) it was due to a "faulty" tire, "defective" front suspension set up, “flawed” breaks, “incorrect” tire choice, “faulty” etc. etc. I think I even remember somebody saying Pedrosa’s crash was to Hayden’s favor because it took the pressure off of him and onto Rossi, to say the added pressure was an added “disturbance.” Or at least those that tried to explain the crash at Valencia tried to come up with.

Look, the poor guy had a lot of pressure to do well. Unfortunately, things happen and He lost the front end (maybe under pressure). But as it has been said many times, it takes a whole season to make a championship. Rossi is great. There is no mistaking that; but lets not all go handing him the title before the season begins and come out asking will Hayden have a crappy defense of it. I wonder if there were any thread started the first year Rossi won the title that wondered if he would have a ...... defense of it? I'm sure we will get a few lame response saying, well Rossi won more races, bla, bla ,bla.

this is just to early to comment on, we havent even gotten past the first race

nicky not doin well in the first tv practice doesnt mean much. its only the start. however i do expect war from vale.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 8 2007, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>10 is more than half of 17.

but i too think that things will be a lot better than they look now. Hayden's 8 podiums includes the 2 wins. should have been more clear.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crvlvr @ Mar 8 2007, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden's 8 podiums includes the 2 wins. should have been more clear.

Stats:

"Hayden's '10' (not 8) podiums includes the 2 wins. should have been more clear".

Tom is right at this 10 is more than half of 17...

Race Track Date Position Points Rider
1 Jerez 03/26/06 3 16 HAYDEN, Nicky
2 Losail 04/08/06 2 20 HAYDEN, Nicky
3 Istanbul 04/30/06 3 16 HAYDEN, Nicky
4 Shanghai 05/14/06 2 20 HAYDEN, Nicky
6 Mugello 06/04/06 3 16 HAYDEN, Nicky
7 Catalunya 06/18/06 2 20 HAYDEN, Nicky
8 Assen 06/24/06 1 25 HAYDEN, Nicky
10 Germany 07/16/06 3 16 HAYDEN, Nicky
11 USA 07/23/06 1 25 HAYDEN, Nicky
17 Valencia 10/29/06 3 16 HAYDEN, Nicky

I stopped arguing about it a while ago Tom, Stats for any rider… I’m with Rossi so I hope he does great this time around.


It’s ok everybody, it was Consistency, Hayden won… 2 Wins, 10 Podiums, One 4th, Three 5th’s, worst place was 9th, finished 16 out of 17 races making points in all of those, and only one DNF which according to Puig was his own fault!

What I think is that we are delirious for Racing!!!


PD. Go Rossi!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 8 2007, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wonder if there were any thread started the first year Rossi won the title that wondered if he would have a ...... defense of it?
jumkie jumkie jumkie surly u jest? mindless cheerleaders questioning! they'ed be excemunicated!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 8 2007, 11:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I disagree, if you compared his pre-season and early season from last year to this, the difference is huge. Rossi got quite lazy and complacent at the top, and his performance showed, untill he had a comeback to make and he caught fire again, then went to faar and through it away.

Come on. Where was the lazyness? Where was the medicore performance? He had a terrible bike all year and while some improvment was made during the season it was troublesome all year. He did a few misstakes, like his two crashes, I'll throw that into the equation but he lost more points due to bike and tire-problems. Despite that he had the most victories last year.
This year the bike is working out of the box. As I commented after FP2 yesterday both Rossi and Edwards were fast from the start and did little or no changes. The both made similar comments in post race comments.
The bike is working as it should and they are both happy about it. That Yamaha got it right this time make Rossi's preparations this year so much better?

I dont know a sane person who thinks Hayden is equal to or better than Rossi.It just gets tiresome that some people think Hayden should somehow apologize for his title.Get over it,its in the books.Nicky Hayden is the World Champion.It is by no means a tainted title.He was good enough to do what NO ONE else could do.Win a title when Rossi faltered.

Well, well, Jumkie has his money on Hayden? What a shock! Firstly, I never stated that I thought Hayden would mount a poor defense. I have always stated that he was the champ and he is due the respect of a champion. I also stated that noone lucls their way into a world championship, ever. I do however take issue with anyone foolish to draw a direct comparison between Rossi and Hayden. There is no comparison, end of story. To those of you whocling to the notion that it was sheer skill on Haydens part that won the championship, and not a disastrous season for Rossi that contributed to his winning, all I can say is DENIAL IS NOT A RIVER IN EGYPT.

Maybe Jumkie would like to put his money where his mouth is?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Mar 8 2007, 07:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>all I can say is DENIAL IS NOT A RIVER IN EGYPT.
As you can see, I'm no stranger to posting, but it still amazes me how people can totally miss the point. You may want to revisit my response to your post. Either way, it doesn’t matter, while people still have their Rossie colored glasses on, nothing will appear clear.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Mar 8 2007, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry Jumkie, while I do give Nicky his due respect there is a big difference between Nicky Hayden and Valentino Rossi. For everyones edification Yamaha had a horrible chatter problem at the beginning of the season and did not clear it up untilafter the halfway point. Consequently Rossi was forced to ride on and even over the edge which is why his season was so out of character. Yamaha got it wrong, plain and simple, there was no laziness or complacency from Rossi. To put thing in perspective Rossi had a crap-handling bike, was submarined by another rider and the bike suffered from reliability issues. And he still came within a whisker of winning the championship. Nicky, on the otherhand was on the best bike with the best team in all of two wheeled racing, had no reliability issues, he did suffer a submarine attack from his own teamate, and he only won because the other guy crashed.

Let us ask ourselves this question. Who would you bet on if Rossi and Hayden were on equal machinery? Honest answers only please.
I suppose all those races at tracks where Hayden has been historically strong and qualified respectably only to drop to 15th or worse after the start was a figment of Hayden fans' imagination. Because there is no way a bike with 'HRC' printed on the side could ever falter. Ever. Hayden had the same luck in the second half of the season as Rossi did in the first. The only difference is rather than pushing over the limit and making mistakes, Hayden stayed on the bike and brought it home when he didn't have anything for the front runners. I certainly can't fault Rossi for that attitude, it's very admirable but I think 2006 is a fine point as to what the cost of such an attitude is. Regardless of talent level.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 9 2007, 02:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Come on. Where was the lazyness? Where was the medicore performance? He had a terrible bike all year and while some improvment was made during the season it was troublesome all year. He did a few misstakes, like his two crashes, I'll throw that into the equation but he lost more points due to bike and tire-problems. Despite that he had the most victories last year.
This year the bike is working out of the box. As I commented after FP2 yesterday both Rossi and Edwards were fast from the start and did little or no changes. The both made similar comments in post race comments.
The bike is working as it should and they are both happy about it. That Yamaha got it right this time make Rossi's preparations this year so much better?
Perhaps Rossi and Yamaha wouldn't have had such a difficult go at it in the first half had he attended every test like the other riders rather than playing show pony for Ferrari. Don't get me wrong, I was excited as anyone to see Rossi behind the wheel of an F1 car, honest. But I think ultimately it cost him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Mar 9 2007, 06:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Perhaps Rossi and Yamaha wouldn't have had such a difficult go at it in the first half had he attended every test like the other riders rather than playing show pony for Ferrari. Don't get me wrong, I was excited as anyone to see Rossi behind the wheel of an F1 car, honest. But I think ultimately it cost him.

Yes, Rossi missed tests in order to tart around in cars and as result the M1 didnt have the milage it needed, and the problems went ud-detected. Then at Jerez he seemed quite happy to start from nowhere on the grid and just cruise round turn one(compare to his attitude in le mans), untill he got nocked off. And did he get straight back on? no he waved his arms around for a wile first. Then come china, when any rider would have taken a safety run and got some points, rossi and JB pulled out some random extreme setup and put in a tire they had never even tried (taking a huge risk). Only to have rossi ride it to pieces pushing for a win. Then in Assen he just plain fell off like a fool. And after all of this, and one of the most incredible comebacks of all time, he found himself ahead on points going into the final round. SO suddenly everything that had happened was irrelevant and all he had to do was get solid points. You know the rest......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 8 2007, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi has got his act together big time, and already looks like he is gonna be better than ever this year.
Rossi kicked butt last year. He came second by just five points despite three DNFs and a couple of low scoring rounds due to being knocked off and busting his wrist. Even riders that finished every race didn't achieve the same thing. He's even more hungry for it this year though.

I reckon Hayden will be lucky to finish in the top three this year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 9 2007, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, Rossi missed tests in order to tart around in cars and as result the M1 didnt have the milage it needed, and the problems went ud-detected.
You two make it sound like Rossi is the only one who testride the bikes. He skiped a test this pre sesaon as well. But still you seem to think that a test or two would change a problem they had on and off the whole season.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Then at Jerez he seemed quite happy to start from nowhere on the grid and just cruise
You know as well as I do that Rossi is never happy unless in front of the pack.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>round turn one(compare to his attitude in le mans), untill he got nocked off. And did he get straight back on? no he waved his arms around for a wile first.
Now, that was a misstake but hardly a major one.
Belive me, it can be quite unsetteling to be taken out but he should have gone for his bike at once.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Then come china, when any rider would have taken a safety run and got some points, rossi and JB pulled out some random extreme setup and put in a tire they had never even tried (taking a huge risk). Only to have rossi ride it to pieces pushing for a win.
There were quite a few times last year they came out with a miraculous formula that turned out to work on race day and this was one of them. This only amplify what terrible situation they had with the chassi. Instead of preparing for a normal race make a few minor adjustments, they had the option of doing radical changes or let the front runners go away.
As far as I know Michelin doesn't have the habit to say they are sorry for supplying under par tires. After china they did. It is not suposed to be an overly huge risk to use a tire that the manufaturer say might work. When it fall appart the way it did, look at the manufaturer not the rider.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Then in Assen he just plain fell off like a fool.
Yup, thats Rossi, only a fool. You got it right there.
Anyway, a real misstake.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>And after all of this, and one of the most incredible comebacks of all time, he found himself ahead on points going into the final round. SO suddenly everything that had happened was irrelevant and all he had to do was get solid points. You know the rest......
What has happened is never irrelevant and I guess it was kind of a comeback but even there he strugeled more then ever with the bike, but on a higher level than in the beginning of the season.
Not much to say really about Vlencia, except that that bike came back biting him time after time. Clearly he was in trouble before the crash as he lost his pace but falling off like that shouldn't have happened.
Pressured maybe, but I doubt it. Rossi has a 20-30% lower pulse rate than any other rider out there. He shouldn't have had any problems analysing the situataion, but the pressure do arrive when the bike starts to missbehave and maybe that caused him to push to hard. I don't know.

Any way I look at it I can't see how his personal misstakes where the major factor here. He still lost more points on pure malfunction, and then a lot on the chassi problem and then he was run down.
So sorry guys, I still don't see the medicore performance.
Mabe I must take the googles off?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rossifan @ Mar 9 2007, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>this is just to early to comment on, we havent even gotten past the first race At last, the voice of reason.


.... me guys, I've never read such a heap of crap. As jumkie put it, a thinly veiled attmpt to put Hayden down. Now before you go all crazy sayin' that everyone is entitled to an opinion, consider how unsporting some of your opinions' are. I'm not going to validate the initial question by defending Hayden, it doesn't even matter that Hayden is the victim of your .....-talk. The first race hasn't even started. Blah blah blah .... valentinoboppers turn Motogp into moronic tribal footballesque slagging match. Think about it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Mar 9 2007, 08:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>At last, the voice of reason.
.... me guys, I've never read such a heap of crap. As jumkie put it, a thinly veiled attmpt to put Hayden down. Now before you go all crazy sayin' that everyone is entitled to an opinion, consider how unsporting some of your opinions' are. I'm not going to validate the initial question by defending Hayden, it doesn't even matter that Hayden is the victim of your .....-talk. The first race hasn't even started. Blah blah blah .... valentinoboppers turn Motogp into moronic tribal footballesque slagging match. Think about it.
so so true.... but i doubt it will ever change!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 9 2007, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Any way I look at it I can't see how his personal misstakes where the major factor here. He still lost more points on pure malfunction, and then a lot on the chassi problem and then he was run down.
So sorry guys, I still don't see the medicore performance.
Mabe I must take the googles off?

Obviosuly the reliability of the bike was an issue as were the engineering troubles with the chassis, but so was Rossi's performance. Its not like he was an inocent victim of a load of problems just happening around him, Colin Edwards bike didn't blow up did it.

Since we are talking about the difference between first and second in the title, there isn't much in it. There is little or no point in discussing what each rider should have done in each situation, so we are left with only the fact that Hayden is the world champion and rossi is not. But if your really want to sit and believe that the champion did not earn his title, and that the second place rider is not responsible for finishing second, go ahead. I mean that only goes against one of the things that motorcycle racing can be most proud of - the rider makes the difference. Rossi has said it and proved it, everybody knows it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 9 2007, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You two make it sound like Rossi is the only one who testride the bikes. He skiped a test this pre sesaon as well. But still you seem to think that a test or two would change a problem they had on and off the whole season.
Certainly Yamaha have their testers putting in miles in Japan and Colin was on the bike at the tests but you can't tell me they have anything compared to Rossi as far as developing the bike goes. No offense to Colin because I think he is an underrated rider and perhaps the second best developmental rider on the grid. But honestly, there's no substitute for having Rossi developing. Look at the M1 before Rossi came aboard, it was nowhere. Had he attended all the tests and been 100 percent focused, there would have been a better probability that Valentino and Jerry would have discovered the problem sooner and thus Yamaha would have come up with a solution earlier.