Why the hate for MotoGP?

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I don't make my living by GP. I make my living by writing. I'd love to write about cycling. Or travel. Or motorcycling. Es ist mir scheissegal.













No, my narrative is "everybody is bitching that they hate MotoGP and will stop watching and watch something else, and yet they haven't done." It reminds me of Mary Whitehouse. She would sit and watch programs, and then complain about how depraved they were. Everyone is sitting around watching MotoGP and saying "that's disgraceful! When's the next one on?"



There is a degree of elasticity in being a MotoGP fan. At some point though the motivation to be a fan becomes inelastic. That point is getting very close for me.



Pov, damn good points and a nice exchange of reasoned ideas between you and Krop.
 
Therein lies the rub. For fans like me, GP is ALL about the quest for perfection, in the rider and the machine. The " show" is almost meaningless to me. You cant get any better show, than what DSB offers. Yesterdays race had 5 riders for the majority of the race running wheel to wheel, sticking their noses in at every opportunity. In the end, it came down to a last lap lunge that required the leader to slightly sit up and boom, it was over. If your a fan of the show, you couldnt ask for more, but the machines are not awe inspiring. Its like the drive Casey got out of the last corner when he made his pass for the lead. I thought damn, the technology that allowed 270 hp to hook up with that tiny patch of rubber is amazing, if a WSBK rider tried that, he would be launched to the moon. I enjoy all bike racing, and can separate them for what they are, but GP, with its quest for the perfect racing motorcycle is the only one i would say im passionate about.



GP is all about perfection for you, as long as you are comfortable with the reputations and brands of the major participants. When new participants arrive, or rules are written to ensure accessibility (thus competition) you sound like a wayward Teuton who complains about the existence of Jews and Balkan Gypsies. Your version of perfection has nothing to do with the no holds barred competitiveness of the human spirit, and everything to do with scripted contests like the Berlin Olympics.



If you actually cared about breaking lap records year after year, you wouldn't support fuel-limited racing, which merely slows the bikes down and recreates the cost curves seen in Group C racing. But since we (the real fans of competition) have identified the fuel regulations as being oppressive, and since the MSMA promise that fuel restrictions are about high technology, not about kicking out undesirable participants; you endorse dumb rules that obviously violate your "ethos". Your real ethos is making sure that certain people get what they want at the expense of others. Perfection by fiat.



There is nothing consistent about your ethos or your obsession with perfection or lap records. The MSMA have reduced fuel capacity 3 times, and they reduced displacement 1 time. You supported them the entire way, despite cat calls from the riders, fans, and business personnel.



You are a sycophant. Don't masquerade as a freedom fighter; you will be found out. If the salient lessons of history are lost, you and your intolerant ilk will end up governed by NASBIKE communism.
 
CRTs not getting better?

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Karel Abraham[/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]“This time the start went well but I got stuck behind Hernandez from the very beginning. I knew I had what it takes to overtake him as soon as possible, but I couldn’t get in front of him. Ironically, he was able to get away on straights, even though he was riding the CRT bike.[/font]
 
The engines already exist, the magic is in what you do with it. For the prototypes, the engines don't already exist.



First you write about Aliens........then it progresses to the supernatural........and now magic?????



BEGONE SCIENTOLOGIST. WE WILL NOT SUFFER YOUR ILK HERE
 
maybe thats what seperates the aliens from the other riders. higher thetan levels. or lower levels?don't know too much about that,maybe we should ask codes
 
I agree, thats why i said they cant stand on their own. Moto 2 is like any other 600 series. It has more performance restrictions that ensure close racing. When you govern performance to a point where numerous riders feel comfortable in that performance range, you create , with emphasis on create, close racing. Take those same riders and add 30 hp to the machine, the number of riders at the front will decrease. The elite will separate themselves from the pack so to speak. Thats why i enjoy Moto GP. The elite, be it technicians, factories, or riders separate themselves from the competition. Personally, the more they separate themselves, the more admiration i have for them.



absolute rubbish, and here's why IMO.



Motogp is more governed and restricted than ever before, remove some aids and lets see how comfortable the current crop feel on their monsters.



Motogp times this year have been close and sometimes slower than 2006, so the amazing speeds you mention and incredible riders that are separating themselves from the competition because of the added ferocity of this apparent 'elite' class would have been flat out beating Rossi, Caparossi, Hayden and Gibernau on 2006 spec 990's-with proper rubber. So they aren't getting faster at all. The argument of new regs, time to get up to speed is completely flawed, 2006 was '6' years ago.........



A question or two; how would Dani Pedrosa perform on a Ducati in 2012? How would Jorge Lorenzo perform on a Ducati in 2012? How would Casey Stoner perform on a Ducati in 2012? Not too well is the simple answer-their Alien status would be removed just as quick as Rossi's on that bike in this current series. Just take a look at Stoner turn around in form from Mugello, why-new engine, 10 new chassis's to choose from........all of this = Factory Honda. Did Stefan get a new chassis or engine? Did Alvaro? Have Ducati updated anything of serious consequence? No



The problem is this is not elite-or at least not the Human elite, results are determined by how well the GPS mapping is translated to the setup, how well the fuel management holds out for the race, how well the engineers can build a bike around spec tyres etc etc etc. Moreso than ever!



We are not seeing the best, because we all know that the bikes will not allow the riders to get the most out of them-fuel management/GPS TC/Anti-wheelie will not allow this, this is why we either see a factory Honda or Yamaha win every race. Without one of these two bikes right now, it cannot be done. So how do we who are the elite riders? We don't, we know they are very good riders, but to win or podium, all they have to do is beat their teammate.



The problem with all of this governing is that its not producing close racing at all, its just made things slower, more expensive and far more unfair. If a GPS sensor is controlling the fueling of the bike from where it is on track and its current lean angle etc, if the engine management through TC is sorting the balance of the bike during braking, if the anti-wheelie is controlling the front wheel lift allow the rider to just crack the throttle on corner exit, and dito for real wheel traction, considering these and many other factors how much can a rider really make a difference-especially if they are not on a Factory Honda or Yamaha?



The only reason that the gap to the front three riders in Motogp riders exists is because of tech advantage, which is predominately unfair because of the tyre rule, the engine rule and the fuel limit. Honda and Yamaha have always been the top dogs in Motogp, but the factory teams use to get beaten by Sat efforts, Ducati and Suzuki. And we all know that is now impossible, elite machinery rules the roost completely due to selectively written regs-this is why a lot of Motogp fans are upset, this is why its more popular in discussions IMO.
 
Selective memory. How many satelight bikes won in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005. Yes 2006 was good, mainly because Honda the hated decided to stack the field with RC211V's in an attempt to de-throne the champ. Take Honda the hated out of 2006, go back to two factory Repsol Honda's, it would look very similar to today. Nothing much has changed, other than who's winning lately. That to me is what sparked the hate towards motogp more than anything. For example Ive found this year to have better racing than 2002. Was the rider really much more important in 2002 than 2012?
 
First you write about Aliens........then it progresses to the supernatural........and now magic?????



BEGONE SCIENTOLOGIST. WE WILL NOT SUFFER YOUR ILK HERE

<
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GP is all about perfection for you, as long as you are comfortable with the reputations and brands of the major participants. When new participants arrive, or rules are written to ensure accessibility (thus competition) you sound like a wayward Teuton who complains about the existence of Jews and Balkan Gypsies. Your version of perfection has nothing to do with the no holds barred competitiveness of the human spirit, and everything to do with scripted contests like the Berlin Olympics.



If you actually cared about breaking lap records year after year, you wouldn't support fuel-limited racing, which merely slows the bikes down and recreates the cost curves seen in Group C racing. But since we (the real fans of competition) have identified the fuel regulations as being oppressive, and since the MSMA promise that fuel restrictions are about high technology, not about kicking out undesirable participants; you endorse dumb rules that obviously violate your "ethos". Your real ethos is making sure that certain people get what they want at the expense of others. Perfection by fiat.



There is nothing consistent about your ethos or your obsession with perfection or lap records. The MSMA have reduced fuel capacity 3 times, and they reduced displacement 1 time. You supported them the entire way, despite cat calls from the riders, fans, and business personnel.



You are a sycophant. Don't masquerade as a freedom fighter; you will be found out. If the salient lessons of history are lost, you and your intolerant ilk will end up governed by NASBIKE communism.



And records continued to fall. Amazing isnt it.
 
absolute rubbish, and here's why IMO.



Motogp is more governed and restricted than ever before, remove some aids and lets see how comfortable the current crop feel on their monsters.



Motogp times this year have been close and sometimes slower than 2006, so the amazing speeds you mention and incredible riders that are separating themselves from the competition because of the added ferocity of this apparent 'elite' class would have been flat out beating Rossi, Caparossi, Hayden and Gibernau on 2006 spec 990's-with proper rubber. So they aren't getting faster at all. The argument of new regs, time to get up to speed is completely flawed, 2006 was '6' years ago.........



A question or two; how would Dani Pedrosa perform on a Ducati in 2012? How would Jorge Lorenzo perform on a Ducati in 2012? How would Casey Stoner perform on a Ducati in 2012? Not too well is the simple answer-their Alien status would be removed just as quick as Rossi's on that bike in this current series. Just take a look at Stoner turn around in form from Mugello, why-new engine, 10 new chassis's to choose from........all of this = Factory Honda. Did Stefan get a new chassis or engine? Did Alvaro? Have Ducati updated anything of serious consequence? No



The problem is this is not elite-or at least not the Human elite, results are determined by how well the GPS mapping is translated to the setup, how well the fuel management holds out for the race, how well the engineers can build a bike around spec tyres etc etc etc. Moreso than ever!



We are not seeing the best, because we all know that the bikes will not allow the riders to get the most out of them-fuel management/GPS TC/Anti-wheelie will not allow this, this is why we either see a factory Honda or Yamaha win every race. Without one of these two bikes right now, it cannot be done. So how do we who are the elite riders? We don't, we know they are very good riders, but to win or podium, all they have to do is beat their teammate.



The problem with all of this governing is that its not producing close racing at all, its just made things slower, more expensive and far more unfair. If a GPS sensor is controlling the fueling of the bike from where it is on track and its current lean angle etc, if the engine management through TC is sorting the balance of the bike during braking, if the anti-wheelie is controlling the front wheel lift allow the rider to just crack the throttle on corner exit, and dito for real wheel traction, considering these and many other factors how much can a rider really make a difference-especially if they are not on a Factory Honda or Yamaha?



The only reason that the gap to the front three riders in Motogp riders exists is because of tech advantage, which is predominately unfair because of the tyre rule, the engine rule and the fuel limit. Honda and Yamaha have always been the top dogs in Motogp, but the factory teams use to get beaten by Sat efforts, Ducati and Suzuki. And we all know that is now impossible, elite machinery rules the roost completely due to selectively written regs-this is why a lot of Motogp fans are upset, this is why its more popular in discussions IMO.



absolute rubbish, and here's why IMO.



Motogp is more governed and restricted than ever before, remove some aids and lets see how comfortable the current crop feel on their monsters.



Motogp times this year have been close and sometimes slower than 2006, so the amazing speeds you mention and incredible riders that are separating themselves from the competition because of the added ferocity of this apparent 'elite' class would have been flat out beating Rossi, Caparossi, Hayden and Gibernau on 2006 spec 990's-with proper rubber. So they aren't getting faster at all. The argument of new regs, time to get up to speed is completely flawed, 2006 was '6' years ago.........



A question or two; how would Dani Pedrosa perform on a Ducati in 2012? How would Jorge Lorenzo perform on a Ducati in 2012? How would Casey Stoner perform on a Ducati in 2012? Not too well is the simple answer-their Alien status would be removed just as quick as Rossi's on that bike in this current series. Just take a look at Stoner turn around in form from Mugello, why-new engine, 10 new chassis's to choose from........all of this = Factory Honda. Did Stefan get a new chassis or engine? Did Alvaro? Have Ducati updated anything of serious consequence? No



The problem is this is not elite-or at least not the Human elite, results are determined by how well the GPS mapping is translated to the setup, how well the fuel management holds out for the race, how well the engineers can build a bike around spec tyres etc etc etc. Moreso than ever!



We are not seeing the best, because we all know that the bikes will not allow the riders to get the most out of them-fuel management/GPS TC/Anti-wheelie will not allow this, this is why we either see a factory Honda or Yamaha win every race. Without one of these two bikes right now, it cannot be done. So how do we who are the elite riders? We don't, we know they are very good riders, but to win or podium, all they have to do is beat their teammate.



The problem with all of this governing is that its not producing close racing at all, its just made things slower, more expensive and far more unfair. If a GPS sensor is controlling the fueling of the bike from where it is on track and its current lean angle etc, if the engine management through TC is sorting the balance of the bike during braking, if the anti-wheelie is controlling the front wheel lift allow the rider to just crack the throttle on corner exit, and dito for real wheel traction, considering these and many other factors how much can a rider really make a difference-especially if they are not on a Factory Honda or Yamaha?



The only reason that the gap to the front three riders in Motogp riders exists is because of tech advantage, which is predominately unfair because of the tyre rule, the engine rule and the fuel limit. Honda and Yamaha have always been the top dogs in Motogp, but the factory teams use to get beaten by Sat efforts, Ducati and Suzuki. And we all know that is now impossible, elite machinery rules the roost completely due to selectively written regs-this is why a lot of Motogp fans are upset, this is why its more popular in discussions IMO.
 
absolute rubbish, and here's why IMO.



Motogp is more governed and restricted than ever before, remove some aids and lets see how comfortable the current crop feel on their monsters.



Motogp times this year have been close and sometimes slower than 2006, so the amazing speeds you mention and incredible riders that are separating themselves from the competition because of the added ferocity of this apparent 'elite' class would have been flat out beating Rossi, Caparossi, Hayden and Gibernau on 2006 spec 990's-with proper rubber. So they aren't getting faster at all. The argument of new regs, time to get up to speed is completely flawed, 2006 was '6' years ago.........



A question or two; how would Dani Pedrosa perform on a Ducati in 2012? How would Jorge Lorenzo perform on a Ducati in 2012? How would Casey Stoner perform on a Ducati in 2012? Not too well is the simple answer-their Alien status would be removed just as quick as Rossi's on that bike in this current series. Just take a look at Stoner turn around in form from Mugello, why-new engine, 10 new chassis's to choose from........all of this = Factory Honda. Did Stefan get a new chassis or engine? Did Alvaro? Have Ducati updated anything of serious consequence? No



The problem is this is not elite-or at least not the Human elite, results are determined by how well the GPS mapping is translated to the setup, how well the fuel management holds out for the race, how well the engineers can build a bike around spec tyres etc etc etc. Moreso than ever!



We are not seeing the best, because we all know that the bikes will not allow the riders to get the most out of them-fuel management/GPS TC/Anti-wheelie will not allow this, this is why we either see a factory Honda or Yamaha win every race. Without one of these two bikes right now, it cannot be done. So how do we who are the elite riders? We don't, we know they are very good riders, but to win or podium, all they have to do is beat their teammate.



The problem with all of this governing is that its not producing close racing at all, its just made things slower, more expensive and far more unfair. If a GPS sensor is controlling the fueling of the bike from where it is on track and its current lean angle etc, if the engine management through TC is sorting the balance of the bike during braking, if the anti-wheelie is controlling the front wheel lift allow the rider to just crack the throttle on corner exit, and dito for real wheel traction, considering these and many other factors how much can a rider really make a difference-especially if they are not on a Factory Honda or Yamaha?



The only reason that the gap to the front three riders in Motogp riders exists is because of tech advantage, which is predominately unfair because of the tyre rule, the engine rule and the fuel limit. Honda and Yamaha have always been the top dogs in Motogp, but the factory teams use to get beaten by Sat efforts, Ducati and Suzuki. And we all know that is now impossible, elite machinery rules the roost completely due to selectively written regs-this is why a lot of Motogp fans are upset, this is why its more popular in discussions IMO.



I might point out that records were shattered this weekend, thought you might like to know
 
Krop - the views of many people on here are influenced heavily by how there favorite rider is performng (or how their rider's arch nemisis is performing). Would there be so much hate, if Rossi and Hayden were winning races. Regular posters on PS represent a small (but passionate) group of supporters. I'm not sure that the general fans who go to the races, or who watch the races on TV are as critical as expressed here.

There are problems with MotoGP, the main being that the people that run the series do not have absolute control of the series - so they are constantly trying to appease the people with real power. However, even if DORNA did have total control, I still think their model is flawed.

There are only two suppliers of competitive bikes, and serious impediments to other suppliers trying to compete. The business model of MotoGP does not stack up to try to attract companies like Red Bull (or other non-bke manufacturers) to come in to the sport. That means there is only 4 competitive bikes in the series, and every race won by one of these bikes. Very talented riders are unable to shine unless they get a seat on one of these bikes. Sponsors do not get exposure unless they are on one of these bikes.

Second, MotoGP has promoted the god like status of one cult hero superstar rider, and have relied on that rider for much of the income into the sport. How can the sport be credible when the organisers are helping to ensure that their 'cashcow superstar' is on a competitive bike.



There are problems with MotoGP, and its easy to be critical, but I'm not sure what the sollution is. One thing I do know, is that the most expensive thing is motorsport is to change the regulations. Fix the regulations, for good or bad, and stick to them.
 
The problem is this is not elite-or at least not the Human elite, results are determined by how well the GPS mapping is translated to the setup, how well the fuel management holds out for the race, how well the engineers can build a bike around spec tyres etc etc etc. Moreso than ever!



We are not seeing the best, because we all know that the bikes will not allow the riders to get the most out of them-fuel management/GPS TC/Anti-wheelie will not allow this, this is why we either see a factory Honda or Yamaha win every race. Without one of these two bikes right now, it cannot be done. So how do we who are the elite riders? We don't, we know they are very good riders, but to win or podium, all they have to do is beat their teammate.



The problem with all of this governing is that its not producing close racing at all, its just made things slower, more expensive and far more unfair. If a GPS sensor is controlling the fueling of the bike from where it is on track and its current lean angle etc, if the engine management through TC is sorting the balance of the bike during braking, if the anti-wheelie is controlling the front wheel lift allow the rider to just crack the throttle on corner exit, and dito for real wheel traction, considering these and many other factors how much can a rider really make a difference-especially if they are not on a Factory Honda or Yamaha?



The only reason that the gap to the front three riders in Motogp riders exists is because of tech advantage, which is predominately unfair because of the tyre rule, the engine rule and the fuel limit. Honda and Yamaha have always been the top dogs in Motogp, but the factory teams use to get beaten by Sat efforts, Ducati and Suzuki. And we all know that is now impossible, elite machinery rules the roost completely due to selectively written regs-this is why a lot of Motogp fans are upset, this is why its more popular in discussions IMO.

Agree and disagree. As yamaka said from the start of the 800 formula, no ride by wire throttle, no track position aware engine software. The fuel regulation has created 2 formulae which mandate one -line racing, and riding the perfect line has priority over racing, and as has been said elsewhere recently the points system gives insufficient reward for winning. Having to develop bikes to suit a control tyre further decreases diversity, and adds to rather than reduces expense.



As far as needing to be on a factory honda or yamaha it has been ever thus, only 3 of the last 29 championships (soon to be 3 of 30) have been won by riders of other equipment, the last ,ironically imo, attributed to a massive bike advantage. I can't see any likelihood of a privateer such as garry mccoy winning even occasional races with the current cost structure and satellite bike availability though.



Lorenzo and stoner can only ride the bikes that they are given though, and I can see no evidence that the crucial last fraction of performance is any easier to extract than it has ever been, or any reason why honda offered them 20 million a year if anybody could do what they do on those bikes. I think they would be competitive in most if not all eras.



Rossi is on the anti-rossi bike, the antithesis of everything he prefers and riding style requires, and ducati have not had the resources or the will (probably both) to transform it. If ducati had continued their pre-2010 direction, I think stoner with the unique riding method he applied to the ducati would still be able to win races but not championships on it, but no-one else would be able to ride it as was the case then.
 
Krop - the views of many people on here are influenced heavily by how there favorite rider is performng (or how their rider's arch nemisis is performing). Would there be so much hate, if Rossi and Hayden were winning races. Regular posters on PS represent a small (but passionate) group of supporters. I'm not sure that the general fans who go to the races, or who watch the races on TV are as critical as expressed here. There are problems with MotoGP, the main being that the people that run the series do not have absolute control of the series - so they are constantly trying to appease the people with real power. However, even if DORNA did have total control, I still think their model is flawed. There are only two suppliers of competitive bikes, and serious impediments to other suppliers trying to compete. The business model of MotoGP does not stack up to try to attract companies like Red Bull (or other non-bke manufacturers) to come in to the sport. That means there is only 4 competitive bikes in the series, and every race won by one of these bikes. Very talented riders are unable to shine unless they get a seat on one of these bikes. Sponsors do not get exposure unless they are on one of these bikes. Second, MotoGP has promoted the god like status of one cult hero superstar rider, and have relied on that rider for much of the income into the sport. How can the sport be credible when the organisers are helping to ensure that their 'cashcow superstar' is on a competitive bike. There are problems with MotoGP, and its easy to be critical, but I'm not sure what the sollution is. One thing I do know, is that the most expensive thing is motorsport is to change the regulations. Fix the regulations, for good or bad, and stick to them.



I agree with much of this. A point though. Red Bull have no problem with F1 despite the rule changes that happen every year and often during the year. The difference between F1 and MotoGP is that F1 don't make rule changes to assist one rider to win which is what make clear that motoGP does in your last few sentences.



As I have said for a long time now. Sponsors won't enter MotoGP whilst the sport is being manipulated to the benefit of just one rider. Just look at Marlboro. They invested heavily through the 990 era with Ducati who worked hard with Bridgestone to develop a package that could win. As soon as they won with someone other than the main clown the rules changed, political pressure was inflicted so that the main clown got all the advantages that they had developed. Sick of trying to fight this and watching the sport drift further away from them the decided to hire the main clown so that the rules could come back their way. Which is exactly what happened. Unfortunately the main clown was not as talented as everyone was lead to believe and it back fired.
 
I agree with much of this. A point though. Red Bull have no problem with F1 despite the rule changes that happen every year and often during the year. The difference between F1 and MotoGP is that F1 don't make rule changes to assist one rider to win which is what make clear that motoGP does in your last few sentences.



As I have said for a long time now. Sponsors won't enter MotoGP whilst the sport is being manipulated to the benefit of just one rider. Just look at Marlboro. They invested heavily through the 990 era with Ducati who worked hard with Bridgestone to develop a package that could win. As soon as they won with someone other than the main clown the rules changed, political pressure was inflicted so that the main clown got all the advantages that they had developed. Sick of trying to fight this and watching the sport drift further away from them the decided to hire the main clown so that the rules could come back their way. Which is exactly what happened. Unfortunately the main clown was not as talented as everyone was lead to believe and it back fired.



More tripe. Why do you bother?
 
I for one do not complain about todays GP. I complain for what is proposed for future GP.
I'm calling ........ here. You have constantly and consistently complained about MGP in the past - specifically CRTs - which is now "today's GP". You most certainly DO complain about today's GP.
 
I'm calling ........ here. You have constantly and consistently complained about MGP in the past - specifically CRTs - which is now "today's GP". You most certainly DO complain about today's GP.





CRT's are grid fillers. They aren't MotoGP. They may be in the future, (god forbid) but right now they are irrelevant. Which I think is Povol's whole point.
 
No. Povol's point, as is always his wont, is to obfuscate his previous statements. He has, since at least 2010, complained about CURRENT and future MGP to the point of claiming he would boycott the sport if CRTs were brought in... Still watching Pov?
 
More tripe. Why do you bother?



Oh, ok there are .... loads of sponsors lining up to sponsor teams in MotoGP and F1 are the ones who are cost cutting back to running Touring Cars.



Do you actually think? You are probably going to come back with GFC and Niche Sport. I will just come back with F1 is operating on planet Earth too with the same GFC but don't seem to be having any funding problems and last time I looked I didn't see any open wheeled 20,000rpm high down force single seater vehicles on the road. F1 has the biggest grids they have had for a long time with many new teams over the past few years.



Fundamental difference: F1 builds the F1 Brand which means sponsors want to sponsor F1 so will back whoever they can. MotoGP builds the Rossi Brand so sponsors want to sponsor Rossi, period.
 
It appears that bagging on MotoGP has become a national sport around here (and not just around here), with everyone singing the praises of WSBK. Yet if I look at the main page, I see this:



ps-motogp-XL.jpg


ps-wsbk-XL.jpg




7 times as many topics on MotoGP as on WSBK, and 15 times as many replies.



Too many armchair pro`s who dont engage the brain.I used to be one but now I tend to shut the .... up if there`s doubt.I probably read your site more now,Krop.
 

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