Which rider gains the most?

levigarrett · Jun 7, 2011

Which rider will gain the most from the new 2012 1000cc formula? I ask simply because tonight I'm pondering Nicky's future and was wondering what I can expect of him going forward. He gave two more frustrated interviews this weekend and I think the Ducati may be finally breaking him. Will the new formula help him? If so, who else enjoys the greatest gain from the larger displacement? I think Speez and Simo will find the additional power more complimentary of their size.

Discuss...

BTW, yes Lex, I'm aware of the fuel restriction and the trouble it will cause, I'll stipulate that it's detrimental....

Jumkie · Jun 7, 2011

Will Nicky's teammate still be Rossi?

If yes: Nicky's career continues as a glorified tester.

If No: Nicky has a chance, assuming he's not paired up with another Spanish/Italian Dorna Diva.

levigarrett · Jun 7, 2011

Jumkie said:
Will Nicky's teammate still be Rossi?

If yes: Nicky's career continues as a glorified tester.

If No: Nicky has a chance, assuming he's not paired up with another Spanish/Italian Dorna Diva.

Unless Nicky quits, I think we know who his teammate will be for 2012. In 2013, he and Checa will get along brilliantly

mylexicon · Jun 7, 2011

levigarrett said:
Which rider will gain the most from the new 2012 1000cc formula? I ask simply because tonight I'm pondering Nicky's future and was wondering what I can expect of him going forward. He gave two more frustrated interviews this weekend and I think the Ducati may be finally breaking him. Will the new formula help him? If so, who else enjoys the greatest gain from the larger displacement? I think Speez and Simo will find the additional power more complimentary of their size.

Discuss...

BTW, yes Lex, I'm aware of the fuel restriction and the trouble it will cause, I'll stipulate that it's detrimental....

I'm going to take the field. Honda's big advantage is supposedly engine braking from the new clutch/gearbox setup. Next year, pistons stay the same size but revs will drop by 20%. Engine braking should be less important which will hopefully bring the bikes closer together. I also think the 1000s are going to have ridiculous amounts of torque, and opening the throttle with the bike cranked over is going to be difficult. Maybe I'm completely cracked, but I think the new 1000s will be ridden curb to curb like a 250cc which should keep the field a bit closer together.

Everything hinges on the new bikes. If someone hits a homerun, 2012 is going to be 2007 all over again.

Tom · Jun 8, 2011

Stoner will gain the most, he's on a Honda and quick to learn

cliche guevara · Jun 8, 2011

Tom said:
Stoner will gain the most, he's on a Honda and quick to learn

good riders will always be good.

the more interesting part to me is who will do better than on a 800. and i guess thats anybody who likes to get it sideways and has problems

getting the heat in the tire.elias is the first to come to mind in that respect , but of course hayden and spies too

but we'd be all fools to think that an adaption phase would be necessary for the likes of lorenzo and co

Tom · Jun 8, 2011

cliché guevara said:
and i guess thats anybody who likes to get it sideways and has problems

getting the heat in the tire.

'getting it sideways' hasn't really been prominent in motogp since about 2003, i wouldn't get your hopes up.

cliche guevara · Jun 8, 2011

Tom said:
'getting it sideways' hasn't really been prominent in motogp since about 2003, i wouldn't get your hopes up.

please let me dream

just saying, since conserving fuel is the biggest enemy of sliding and dropping revs saves some fuel , there will be more ....wheelspin available or whatever

chopperman · Jun 8, 2011

Jumkie said:
Will Nicky's teammate still be Rossi?

If yes: Nicky's career continues as a glorified tester.

If No: Nicky has a chance, assuming he's not paired up with another Spanish/Italian Dorna Diva.

So was Nicky also stoners "glorified tester"? Its not as if he has gone backwards from the previous year under rossi !

alex29 · Jun 8, 2011

Hayden maybe? But really i don't think nothing's going to change the usual suspects will be still up there.

stiefel · Jun 8, 2011

chopperman said:
So was Nicky also stoners "glorified tester"? Its not as if he has gone backwards from the previous year under rossi !

Actually, I'd say he has. Remember all those 4th places last year? Granted, it's not a huge difference. But while I think that last year, there was this feeling that he was just about to make it work, this year it just looks hopeless.

chopperman · Jun 8, 2011

stiefel said:
Actually, I'd say he has. Remember all those 4th places last year? Granted, it's not a huge difference. But while I think that last year, there was this feeling that he was just about to make it work, this year it just looks hopeless.

I'd look more at lap times than places and times behind team mate. HRC getting their act together will effect places making it look worse than it actually is.

Rossi can do nothing right in the eyes of some. If he has a garage wall and wants both riders to be separate teams he is a criminal for not sharing data. If he doesn't have the wall then the team mate is just a tester

browney · Jun 8, 2011

I'm not sure much will change in race trim unless they give them some more fuel, tyres that work for more riders and maybe even dial back traction control.

chopperman · Jun 8, 2011

browney said:
I'm not sure much will change in race trim unless they give them some more fuel, tyres that work for more riders and maybe even dial back traction control.

Good point. Are they going to have a different control tyre for the 1000's or are they to run on the tyres developed for 800's ?

Keshav · Jun 8, 2011

chopperman said:
Good point. Are they going to have a different control tyre for the 1000's or are they to run on the tyres developed for 800's ?

It's already been established that new tires have been developed. Several riders have passed favorable comment on them

after tests of the 1000 cc bikes, even going so far as to say they wished the new tires could be had immediately.

Mental Anarchist · Jun 8, 2011

I think the biggest benefit will be achieved by the satellite teams. In the 990 era the extra torque took the bikes past the ability of the tyre which evened the playing field to a degree because extra bike performance didn't necessarily translate to faster times. The second aspect will be a greater torque curve and lower rev ceiling will reduce the peaky nature of the 800's and therefore reduce the amount of electronics required to make the bike controllable. I know this won't impact the fuel management component of the electronics. These 2 changes could reduce the gap from the factory to the satellite bikes and therefore allow them to be a bit more competitive. I don't suggest it will close the gap but I think we may see a satellite bike make it to the podium on occasion.

chopperman · Jun 8, 2011

Keshav said:
It's already been established that new tires have been developed. Several riders have passed favorable comment on them

after tests of the 1000 cc bikes, even going so far as to say they wished the new tires could be had immediately.

So these new tyres are going to be used by 1000's and 800's or new but different tyres for each ?

Arrabbiata1 · Jun 8, 2011

chopperman said:
Rossi can do nothing right in the eyes of some. If he has a garage wall and wants both riders to be separate teams he is a criminal for not sharing data. If he doesn't have the wall then the team mate is just a tester

Nicky, just as in the case of Colin, is not deemed as a threat - Jorge was.

P.M. me when you have the chance Rog

L8Braker · Jun 8, 2011

I'm one of Nicky's biggest fans going way back to his dirt tracking days. As much as it pains me to say this, he's done!...1000cc will do nothing for him. If Ducati have thier GP12 sorted at the start of 2012 his results will show, meaning more top 5's, but as the season progresses he will drop back to top 8 status. 2012's current rules package doesn't really change much except a little more torque to get off the corners and that will only help a little. No, if Nicky is to be back at the front of MotoGP again, DORNA would have to remove all electronics and fuel limits. IMO only a few riders in the current field could ride those beasts consistently.

I think it's WSBK for Nicky in 2013 on a Honda....followed a year or so later by his current team mate.

chopperman · Jun 8, 2011

Arrabbiata1 said:
Nicky, just as in the case of Colin, is not deemed as a threat - Jorge was.

P.M. me when you have the chance Rog

Thats the point mate. Their not deemed a threat because their at there limits regardless of testing new parts or not. Like we see rider's jump off sat bikes onto factory and not get any faster,

Which rider gains the most?

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