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What does the future hold for Jack Miller?

So did Lorenzo. In fact most did at that corner at Catalunya before Marquez

Marquezs style is still more radical again than stoners, his arse and body more off the seat. Stoners and Lorenzos style made Rossi change his, Marquez took it to another level.

You only need to watch stoner in testing, he looks more traditional than most now

Toni Elias had his ... off quite a bit. ;)

mgp_2011_06_25_Assen_ToniElias_1922.jpg


I would say though that Stoner had the most radical style of all once you factor in how he actually rode a bike beyond just mere body positioning. Using the rear brake to smooth out the peaky power delivery upon acceleration out of a corner...you think Stoner would have been having trouble getting out of the corners on the current RCV earlier in the year?
 
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Toni Elias had his ... off quite a bit. ;)

mgp_2011_06_25_Assen_ToniElias_1922.jpg


I would say though that Stoner had the most radical style of all once you factor in how he actually rode a bike beyond just mere body positioning. Using the rear brake to smooth out the peaky power delivery upon acceleration out of a corner...you think Stoner would have been having trouble getting out of the corners on the current RCV earlier in the year?
Toni had to cos he such a little fella.

We will never know about stoner and how he compares against Marquez. Imo marquez would beat him on the Honda, but I'm sure it would be fascinating.

Lorenzo is intertesting because he has altered his style from 250 and picks the bike up very quickly like Dani now. I would say on corner exit he is the best there is based on Austria and Aragon in particular he was sublime coming out of the penumilate corner onto the back straight. His entry speed is letting him down this year.
 
Toni had to cos he such a little fella.

We will never know about stoner and how he compares against Marquez. Imo marquez would beat him on the Honda, but I'm sure it would be fascinating.

Lorenzo is intertesting because he has altered his style from 250 and picks the bike up very quickly like Dani now. I would say on corner exit he is the best there is based on Austria and Aragon in particular he was sublime coming out of the penumilate corner onto the back straight. His entry speed is letting him down this year.

I think my point is more that given the peaky nature of the V4 on the current RC213V, it was having a lot of problems getting the power down without exceeding the traction limits. Stoner had already dealt with that riding the 800cc Desmosedici's. He was able to control that kind of an engine better than even MM could as was evidenced by the lack of ability to calm the torque curve to get better acceleration out of the corners.

The point also being lost here is that (I'm making an observation purely) MM is very much a product of the electronics. Fair play to him as he has been able to exploit the tires and electronics to devastating effect over the course of his career. Stoner on the other hand was the electronics.
 
I think my point is more that given the peaky nature of the V4 on the current RC213V, it was having a lot of problems getting the power down without exceeding the traction limits. Stoner had already dealt with that riding the 800cc Desmosedici's. He was able to control that kind of an engine better than even MM could as was evidenced by the lack of ability to calm the torque curve to get better acceleration out of the corners.

The point also being lost here is that (I'm making an observation purely) MM is very much a product of the electronics. Fair play to him as he has been able to exploit the tires and electronics to devastating effect over the course of his career. Stoner on the other hand was the electronics.
Agree with what you say, but we will never entirely know until Marquez rides a bike without sophisticated electronics. He is only a product of the electronics because thats how the racing has gone. Put him on a bike without electronics and I'm sure he will be every bit as effective with his right hand and rear brake.

People bang on about stoners (and I am a fan by the way) dirt bike skills, Marquez wins flat track races against some of the best riders in the world in his spare time.

His ability to lead the championship on possibly the bike with the worst electronics and drive combination puts him up there with what stoner did on the ducati. He has tackled the problem and made up for it just as stoner did but in a different way by exploiting the Honda strengths such as its front end grip, corner entry and braking stability. Stoner exploited the strengths of the Ducati motor by using it in the way you state.

Marquez has the time and probably the desire to win the championship with three different manufacturers if he so chooses.
 
I think my point is more that given the peaky nature of the V4 on the current RC213V, it was having a lot of problems getting the power down without exceeding the traction limits. Stoner had already dealt with that riding the 800cc Desmosedici's. He was able to control that kind of an engine better than even MM could as was evidenced by the lack of ability to calm the torque curve to get better acceleration out of the corners.



The point also being lost here is that (I'm making an observation purely) MM is very much a product of the electronics. Fair play to him as he has been able to exploit the tires and electronics to devastating effect over the course of his career. Stoner on the other hand was the electronics.



Apparently Marquez, Pedrosa and Crutchlow stayed behind at Aragon to test the 2017 bike that's rumoured to have a Big Bang engine to calm the torque curve down.
It'll be a devastating blow to the other manufacturers if it proves to be the modification that puts them back to the top of the pile again.
 
Apparently Marquez, Pedrosa and Crutchlow stayed behind at Aragon to test the 2017 bike that's rumoured to have a Big Bang engine to calm the torque curve down.
It'll be a devastating blow to the other manufacturers if it proves to be the modification that puts them back to the top of the pile again.

It'll be a devastating blow on the decibel front as well.
 
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Agree with what you say, but we will never entirely know until Marquez rides a bike without sophisticated electronics. He is only a product of the electronics because thats how the racing has gone. Put him on a bike without electronics and I'm sure he will be every bit as effective with his right hand and rear brake.

People bang on about stoners (and I am a fan by the way) dirt bike skills, Marquez wins flat track races against some of the best riders in the world in his spare time.

His ability to lead the championship on possibly the bike with the worst electronics and drive combination puts him up there with what stoner did on the ducati. He has tackled the problem and made up for it just as stoner did but in a different way by exploiting the Honda strengths such as its front end grip, corner entry and braking stability. Stoner exploited the strengths of the Ducati motor by using it in the way you state.

Marquez has the time and probably the desire to win the championship with three different manufacturers if he so chooses.

MM is riding a bike now without the usual sophisticated Honda electronics package. He couldn't overcome the acceleration woes on his own...there's your proof. I also wouldn't even say Honda has the worst electronics. Everyone is using the same ECU so it has nothing to do with the electronics being poor. It has to do with how easy it is to tame everything by way of electronics.

The thing with the Ducati engine is that it was more rideable on the GP7 before they increased the intake inlets on the GP8 and made a smaller problem much worse. The GP7 was a good bike, but not a great bike. It had a shitload of power on the straights yes, but using on corner exit was another story altogether. Stoner didn't exploit the engine's strengths as I would argue the engine didn't really have any strengths other than producing a lot of power on a curve that was unusable in anything other than a dead straight line. Somewhat of an oxymoron there I suppose. He tamed the power which is not the same as exploiting the power. Exploiting would indicate he was getting the full benefit of the power, which he most certainly was not. Also the GP7 the handling was somewhat suspect. The front had a tendency to want to get out of shape on corner exit. You could see it wobbling quite a bit....and that's without even discussing the understeer issue the Desmo's had.

MM is a great rider, but what he has done to date still doesn't come close to what Stoner did on the Ducati from 2007 to 2010. I'm of the belief that most to this day still do not really get how monumental an achievement everything Stoner did on those bikes was.
 
Apparently Marquez, Pedrosa and Crutchlow stayed behind at Aragon to test the 2017 bike that's rumoured to have a Big Bang engine to calm the torque curve down.
It'll be a devastating blow to the other manufacturers if it proves to be the modification that puts them back to the top of the pile again.

I saw a tech talk video on the GP site about Honda's brutish acceleration problems and how even in 2015 with the open software the electronics struggled to control it. Apparently the hot humid air in Sepang took some bite out of the engines abruptness and allowed the electronics to control and smooth the acceleration out of corners a lot better. If they struggled with this using open software I doesn't surprise me that the unified software is struggling to do the job. Maybe a big bang engine will do the trick.
 
MM is riding a bike now without the usual sophisticated Honda electronics package. He couldn't overcome the acceleration woes on his own...there's your proof. I also wouldn't even say Honda has the worst electronics. Everyone is using the same ECU so it has nothing to do with the electronics being poor. It has to do with how easy it is to tame everything by way of electronics.

The thing with the Ducati engine is that it was more rideable on the GP7 before they increased the intake inlets on the GP8 and made a smaller problem much worse. The GP7 was a good bike, but not a great bike. It had a shitload of power on the straights yes, but using on corner exit was another story altogether. Stoner didn't exploit the engine's strengths as I would argue the engine didn't really have any strengths other than producing a lot of power on a curve that was unusable in anything other than a dead straight line. Somewhat of an oxymoron there I suppose. He tamed the power which is not the same as exploiting the power. Exploiting would indicate he was getting the full benefit of the power, which he most certainly was not. Also the GP7 the handling was somewhat suspect. The front had a tendency to want to get out of shape on corner exit. You could see it wobbling quite a bit....and that's without even discussing the understeer issue the Desmo's had.

MM is a great rider, but what he has done to date still doesn't come close to what Stoner did on the Ducati from 2007 to 2010. I'm of the belief that most to this day still do not really get how monumental an achievement everything Stoner did on those bikes was.
Fair enough. I didn't say Honda had the worst electronics I said it was the worst combination between electronics and drive. I'm well aware that their all on the same electronics, that's what makes Marquez performance more extraordinary.
 
The way to ride dirt/flat track is to trail brake with the rear all the way around the corner, with the throttle being rolled back on. Once the bike is on the meat of the tyre again and corner squared off you let the brake off and shoot away.

Same as a 2 stroke road racing bike in order to keep it in the rev range, reduce spinning and control the rear. I know people that have a small second peg mounted mid way along the rear brake pedal in order to use the toe on it during right hand turns :)

I have no doubt that both Stoner and Marquez would be or are masters of this, as were all of the 500cc era racers. Marquez is riding above the machine and electronics now.

Stoner was IMO and is a smidge more skilled on the bike than Marquez. Before he was dubbed rolling stoner, he did some amazing things on that bike in the first few races of 2006 whilst going largely ignored. But, not to discredit Marquez at all, he is amazing. Such a shame their paths did not cross.
 
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