My poor choice of words. Yes quite correct that giving back the place gained is the traditional remedy. I have seen racers do this of their own accord. Not sure how this gets done in these circumstances. Black flag come in for a stop and go? Or wait until the end of the race? All messy choices.
VR Effect: Negative Repercussion for GP
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My poor choice of words. Yes quite correct that giving back the place gained is the traditional remedy. I have seen racers do this of their own accord. Not sure how this gets done in these circumstances. Black flag come in for a stop and go? Or wait until the end of the race? All messy choices.
You can't prove it but you can't disprove it. And who said there is no such thing as bad publicity?
One could argue that the same people (hardcore fans) are looking/googling more, but hardcore fans already have their sources, they don't look up the riders they support that much.
In general it's almost certain that this reached more people than it did before. We'll have to wait to see if there was a real positive impact.
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Pomona NY
A. A weak argument if there ever was one. Fact remains, the only people who'd be searching like crazy for info on this incident are people who were already following the sport. You don't mean to imply that some Suzy Creamcheese overheard about the incident whilst slurping a pumpkin latte at Starbucks and Tweeted her girlfriends and they all became MotoGP enthusiasts over the last few weeks?
B. You won't find a forum out there more hardcore than PS and believe me they've been Googling like crazy people since this happened.
I hear about scandals all the time in the world of Futbol and as I don't give a .... about that sport, I don't Google it.
The incident between Rossi and MM is only of interest to those who are already invested in the sport to begin with.
It would seem that the bias in this forum, both from Rossi fans and, for lack of a better term, non Rossi fans, really prevents objective discussion about it.
Yes, Casey Stoner was an incredible talent in MotoGP, and won on a bike that was arguably not as good as the Yamaha or Honda, but we have to keep in mind that its not just how good the bike is, its also how the rider feels when they're in the saddle. Obviously Rossi's style did not mesh with the Duc, Stoner's did, and that's why he had better results on it.
As for rule changes, it does seem to me in more than one form of racing that Honda are typically the ones who try to change the rules, the rise of the 4 stroke motocross bike for instance, while begun by Yamaha, was ultimately championed by Big Red. This became particularly evident after Kaven Benoit's 2 championship seasons after CMRC allowed 2 strokes to compete cc for cc at the Nationals. After the first title, the smokers were relegated to using stock engines, when he won again, a slew of new and ridiculous rule changes came about to further handicap the 2 strokes.
I believe MotoGP will be just fine without Rossi, as much as I do like him. In my mind, Kenny Roberts is the GOAT simply because of the way the Euros tried to keep him down and the way he spanked them all anyway. Rossi is not far off in my opinion. There is no such thing as an undeserved title, as much as I don't like the way this season ended, JLO had an exemplary season and his ride at Valencia was as near flawless as I've ever seen.
Anyways, I'm over everything thats gone on this season, and looking forward to 2016.
Yes, Casey Stoner was an incredible talent in MotoGP, and won on a bike that was arguably not as good as the Yamaha or Honda, but we have to keep in mind that its not just how good the bike is, its also how the rider feels when they're in the saddle. Obviously Rossi's style did not mesh with the Duc, Stoner's did, and that's why he had better results on it.
As for rule changes, it does seem to me in more than one form of racing that Honda are typically the ones who try to change the rules, the rise of the 4 stroke motocross bike for instance, while begun by Yamaha, was ultimately championed by Big Red. This became particularly evident after Kaven Benoit's 2 championship seasons after CMRC allowed 2 strokes to compete cc for cc at the Nationals. After the first title, the smokers were relegated to using stock engines, when he won again, a slew of new and ridiculous rule changes came about to further handicap the 2 strokes.
I believe MotoGP will be just fine without Rossi, as much as I do like him. In my mind, Kenny Roberts is the GOAT simply because of the way the Euros tried to keep him down and the way he spanked them all anyway. Rossi is not far off in my opinion. There is no such thing as an undeserved title, as much as I don't like the way this season ended, JLO had an exemplary season and his ride at Valencia was as near flawless as I've ever seen.
Anyways, I'm over everything thats gone on this season, and looking forward to 2016.
Joined Feb 2007
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In Cider
Gotta love this. He says he's preparing hard for next season:
1. Isn't everyone?
2. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that Yamaha decided to skip anymore testing this yr, but 2 of his 3 rivals have been at Jerez the last week testing like mad, seems like better preparation to me than going rallying.
1. Isn't everyone?
2. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that Yamaha decided to skip anymore testing this yr, but 2 of his 3 rivals have been at Jerez the last week testing like mad, seems like better preparation to me than going rallying.
Joined Apr 2015
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NJ
Motegi 2010 and Phillip Island 2010.
Both races VR made contact with another rider in an effort to get past the rider; Lorenzo and Hayden respectively.
There was nothing but admiration flooding out of the orifice Nick Harris who was intent on telling the fans that it was the mark of a man who never gives up. Heck, he even brought up Gibernau 2005 during the Motegi race.
Is it no wonder we have people arguing that the contact and behavior of VR is okay?
They've been conditioned to believe it because the mouth of MotoGP, and race direction has opted to do nothing, and chalk everything up to a racing incident when it comes to Valentino Rossi.
Contact will happen at times, but contact instigated as a method of moving opponents out of the way, or defending against them is something else. Especially when VR has been doing it for years.
"The rules are there ain't no rules."
Both races VR made contact with another rider in an effort to get past the rider; Lorenzo and Hayden respectively.
There was nothing but admiration flooding out of the orifice Nick Harris who was intent on telling the fans that it was the mark of a man who never gives up. Heck, he even brought up Gibernau 2005 during the Motegi race.
Is it no wonder we have people arguing that the contact and behavior of VR is okay?
They've been conditioned to believe it because the mouth of MotoGP, and race direction has opted to do nothing, and chalk everything up to a racing incident when it comes to Valentino Rossi.
Contact will happen at times, but contact instigated as a method of moving opponents out of the way, or defending against them is something else. Especially when VR has been doing it for years.
"The rules are there ain't no rules."
Yup.
It's refreshing to come here and escape the "anything Rossi does is ok" line. I started to doubt my sanity. Some of my dearest friends belong to the yellow horde and desperately wanted the Tavulia boy to win. I tried not to crow about the final points tally.
I used the Senna line: "the results speak for themselves."
I think it would be great or us and good for him he took up rallying full time next year. Or maybe better yet, Nascar. I think it's fully acceptable there to move other competitors with your car.
It's refreshing to come here and escape the "anything Rossi does is ok" line. I started to doubt my sanity. Some of my dearest friends belong to the yellow horde and desperately wanted the Tavulia boy to win. I tried not to crow about the final points tally.
I used the Senna line: "the results speak for themselves."
I think it would be great or us and good for him he took up rallying full time next year. Or maybe better yet, Nascar. I think it's fully acceptable there to move other competitors with your car.
Joined Oct 2006
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Your Mom's House
I know what you mean. Hell it even prompted a MotoGP champion to put "the numbers don't lie" on his leathers because the Yellow Hordes were convinced it only happened because something had failed Rossi. Its never Rossi, it's always something else. Thing is quite the opposite is the reality, with such a stacked and rigged playing field, it's a wonder anybody else ever wins. Rossi is the ultimate sore loser in history, and all its done is 'rally' the Faithful to solidify their insanity.
Joined Nov 2015
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Australia
Makes me think about Rossi's famous "Is racing" line. Apparently it doesn't apply when Rossi comes off second best though.
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In Cider
Kinda brings the 'obsession with Rossi' article I posted sharply into context.
Doctored: MotoGP?s Obsession with Valentino Rossi ? Part 2 | Trunk Talk
Funny, my wife has only been watching MotoGP intently with me this yr, and even she said the exact same words as you: "It's never Rossi, it's always something else"
Ahh yes, that line was brought up a number of times post Sepang, but as you say the boppers conveniently forgot it. Karma is a ........
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The same can be said for all the top riders except maybe Pedrosa. Lorenzo blamed the races he didn't win on his helmet, visor, weather, and tires. Marc blamed crashing in Argentina on Rossi and also blamed Rossi for not moving out his way so he could win in Assen. Marc also blamed Stoner for a "terrible" 2015 chassis.
It's a confidence thing, they believe they're the best unless something outside of their control holds them back.
Definitely true that most elite riders have that attitude, and that it is far from unique to Rossi.
It is the belief of that element among Rossi fandom that it is always true and just telling it like it is when Rossi is the proponent whilst having a very different response to the same attitude when it is exhibited by other riders with which fans of those other riders have a problem.
Joined Nov 2015
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Seattle
Taking that a step farther, if a fan of someone other than Rossi mentions "another" reason for their loss like the examples above, visor problems and what not, that fan's personal character is immediately assaulted and in many cases, the person is even threatened. Rossi "fans" are more than just fans. If Rossi were to post online that he wants his followers to drink cyanide with him so they could join him in the afterlife, it would be a shock to me if nobody followed him.
To those of you who may consider yourselves reasonable while still being a Rossi fan, then I'm not talking about you. But you've got to admit there's a lot of them.
Joined Oct 2008
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In Cider
Agreed, to an extent. However, this is the exact point that Trunkman makes in his article. Lorenzo said his helmet lining on his forehead came loose in Qatar and he couldn't see, he then had fogging issues in another race. This was a rider who when asked why his pace suddenly dropped off midway through a race, was honest and explained exactly what happened, and yet that is perceived by the majority as 'moaning' or 'blaming'. What is he supposed to say?
Rossi then explains reasons for him not winning races and it is glossed over. Even the commentators use language like "Poor Rossi" or "He is stuck behind the Ducati's", when it was a ...... start or qualifying by him that put him there. Call a spade a spade.
Interesting point, and trunkman covers it here:
Doctored ? MotoGP?s Obsession with Valentino Rossi | Trunk Talk
He basically says that his rabid fanbase are so invested in him, that that take any criticism of him personally.
"You come at Rossi, you’re coming at us."
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Joined Nov 2015
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Seattle
Actually I saw that article posted earlier in the thread when I was reading through it today and read both parts 1 and 2. I thought it laid out a lot of the problems that I've had in my mind for the last couple years in a really clear way.
The only thing about that article that made me squirm a bit was the criticism of Nick Harris, the motogp.com announcer. I know he might speak a little too much about Rossi and I definitely think that the media has a big part in the cult of Rossi, but I love Nick's commentary... "Watery sunshine" and what not. A couple years ago in Phillip Island when Iannone hit that bird, and Nick was talking with Gavin Emmett about it and said that the event was "catastrophic for the bird" or whatever, that really cracked me up.
Sorry...off topic.
The only thing about that article that made me squirm a bit was the criticism of Nick Harris, the motogp.com announcer. I know he might speak a little too much about Rossi and I definitely think that the media has a big part in the cult of Rossi, but I love Nick's commentary... "Watery sunshine" and what not. A couple years ago in Phillip Island when Iannone hit that bird, and Nick was talking with Gavin Emmett about it and said that the event was "catastrophic for the bird" or whatever, that really cracked me up.
Sorry...off topic.
