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Goatboy · Oct 18, 2012

michaelm said:
He has given as good as he gets where rossi is concerned for sure, and I would make no claim he is even remotely generally likeable. The degree of hatred for him is imo fairly unprecedented for a sports star of his level of accomplishment though, and not justifed by anything he has done on track where he has basically never harmed or materially adversely affected another rider (other than by beating them) since the crash in 2006, which was admittedly ascribable to rider error, and even then he was a rookie and was not attempting an impossible passing move or the like.

The two things which mainly seem to rankle him are the ascribing of his ducati world championship to massive bike advantage when he knew the thing was virtually unrideable, and the response to his 2009 illness which I think he may believe was genuine, and I find his ranklement in these two matters understandable.

I want to make it clear I mean no offence or disrespect.

I just don't accept the caveat that being so free with his feet & hands in practice sessions & not races makes it acceptable.

I think the level of hatred he has experienced has precedents, in 1991-92 when it was Senna Vs Mansell things got pretty hot for me at school. I was branded a traitor at times for not supporting "our Nige." Senna also had the press against him at the time, something Stoner certainly has not. There have been more than a few interest pieces on Casey in an attempt to build him up. Contrary to popular belief it is not something that can be forced, it can be helped along, but not forced.

With his period of illness in 2009 I think it's easy to overlook some context. He had a really bad second half of 2008, we now know it was the bike, but not at the time. Several past World Champions had branded him a sore loser over Laguna. It genuinely looked as if the wind had been taken out of his sails. For him then to miss races in 2009, it seemed like the pattern was repeating itself. Can anyone really be blamed for thinking anything else? Not even Casey knew what was wrong, so how could keyboard warriors etc know any better?

As for 2007's remarks about his bike, I believe that's just something the successful guys have to go through, Rossi certainly did. Why should anyone else be any different?

Anyway, I will continue to watch this sport because of the lineage, this is the championship that Hailwood, Ago, Sheene, Roberts, Rainey, Schwantz, Doohan, Rossi & Stoner won. So it's the real deal for me, still.

michaelm · Oct 18, 2012

Goatboy said:
I want to make it clear I mean no offence or disrespect.

I just don't accept the caveat that being so free with his feet & hands in practice sessions & not races makes it acceptable.

I think the level of hatred he has experienced has precedents, in 1991-92 when it was Senna Vs Mansell things got pretty hot for me at school. I was branded a traitor at times for not supporting "our Nige." Senna also had the press against him at the time, something Stoner certainly has not. There have been more than a few interest pieces on Casey in an attempt to build him up. Contrary to popular belief it is not something that can be forced, it can be helped along, but not forced.

With his period of illness in 2009 I think it's easy to overlook some context. He had a really bad second half of 2008, we now know it was the bike, but not at the time. Several past World Champions had branded him a sore loser over Laguna. It genuinely looked as if the wind had been taken out of his sails. For him then to miss races in 2009, it seemed like the pattern was repeating itself. Can anyone really be blamed for thinking anything else? Not even Casey knew what was wrong, so how could keyboard warriors etc know any better?

As for 2007's remarks about his bike, I believe that's just something the successful guys have to go through, Rossi certainly did. Why should anyone else be any different?

Anyway, I will continue to watch this sport because of the lineage, this is the championship that Hailwood, Ago, Sheene, Roberts, Rainey, Schwantz, Doohan, Rossi & Stoner won. So it's the real deal for me, still.

I probably don't disagree with any of this, but his practice antics whilst "arrogant and impertinent" as gpone put it in regard to the shoulder poke actually haven't ever hurt anyone either, and mostly came after he had already endured considerable despite. None of his actions approach what marquez has done including as recently as last week-end.

I would see it looking to everyone that the 2007 ducati was faster and that the illness was phony (not to me, and I was once rather good at divining what people had wrong with them over the phone, so I was reasonably confident on video evidence) as irrelevant; everyone was wrong, and if anything this probably made it worse for him and was imo considerably formative of his later attitudes. It is a truism that just because you are paranoid it doesn't mean everyone isn't after you, and he is probably correct in thinking the motorcycling world was against him, as you yourself have more or less said was the case.

thedeal · Oct 18, 2012

I watched a recording from a friends phone of the reaction Stoner got at the day of champs a few years back,disgusting and disgracefull and then he said in print that he thought the brits wanted him dead, what had h done wrong?manipulation from Rossi and co, the press should be ashamed for buying into it.

thedeal · Oct 18, 2012

thedeal said:
I watched a recording from a friends phone of the reaction Stoner got at the day of champs a few years back,disgusting and disgracefull and then he said in print that he thought the brits wanted him dead, what had he done wrong?manipulation from Rossi,Dorna and co, the press should be ashamed for buying into it.

Bsnell · Oct 19, 2012

Jumkie said:
Ok, you dragged me in. Hahaha. You have just added a word to my vernacular: Twankunt. I love it dude, perfectly describes your subject.

On a related note, say hi to Dovi for us. Seriously, you never know who lurks on Powerslide. I have personal knowledge of some high profile peeps in the sport who have lurked and joined the site that would boggle the mind!!!

If I didn't tell you before, welcome. Please, continue to post away. Don't worry about our resident Google merchant, its par for the course.

My pleasure man

I am not Dovi's Engineer but I used to work for T3 a few years back having transferred from WCM with Mr Ellison. I have contacts there still and James did mention me coming on board at PBM but i'm not sure if he was joking or not. I'm not certain that i'd fancy going back to travelling that much but you never know.

Google merchant, I love it!

cliche guevara · Oct 19, 2012

thedeal said:
I watched a recording from a friends phone of the reaction Stoner got at the day of champs a few years back,disgusting and disgracefull and then he said in print that he thought the brits wanted him dead, what had h done wrong?manipulation from Rossi and co, the press should be ashamed for buying into it.

+1

what lorenzo does better than casey is dealing with stupid brit/italian fans , i found it hillarious how he taunted the booing crowd at mugello

xx CURVE xx · Oct 19, 2012

OnTopic:

Get your ..... back in the kitchen you bunch of ....... Marys and keep on keeping with he kardashians.

this .... is MY sport, i dont give two ..... about ANY games such as baseball, soccer, footy crickets, NFL, NBA, MMA, etc...

I AM BIKES.

.... there IS nothing else. so jogg-off.

AND WHERE THE .... IS MY AVY!!!

Bsnell · Oct 19, 2012

cliché guevara said:
+1

what lorenzo does better than casey is dealing with stupid brit/italian fans , i found it hillarious how he taunted the booing crowd at mugello

Is this on video?

cliche guevara · Oct 19, 2012

sorry i don't have one and lack the vocab to properly describe it but he waved his hands at the booing crowd on the podium and then turned his ear towards them as if he was pumping them up to boo him more while having a laugh with dani or casey, can't remember clearly to be honest.

point is in any case that he is able to have fun with the hate and/or ignore it where as clearly it took a toll on casey.

i never understood the british obsession with flamboyant italians anyways

baturro · Oct 19, 2012

Lorenzo's reaction to the crowd is normal for a Spaniard. Crowd reaction like what he experienced in Mugello is pretty much on par with what happens at any futbol stadium in Spain. Boo and bad mouth the opposing team. Especially in a fierce rivalry. Madrid v Barsa. The same thing happens with Spain v Italy in any competition. There has always been sporting tension between the countries. I'm sure Lorenzo expected it.

I see Stoners reaction normal as well. If I was in Stoners shoes that day as a winning American and was booed by what I considered to be a "family nation," I would be extremely disappointed. Maybe there is a lot of Anti Aussie/Brit bad blood I don't know about!

Stoner reacted like an in your face Anglo and Lorenzo acted with machismo Latino.

Bsnell · Oct 19, 2012

I admire Stoners skill, but not his "I have a problem with everything that brought me here" attitude including the genuine fans who love to see him ride.

That said, I think he is a victim of his own talent....

DRILL · Oct 24, 2012

xx CURVE xx said:
OnTopic:

Get your ..... back in the kitchen you bunch of ....... Marys and keep on keeping with he kardashians.

this .... is MY sport, i dont give two ..... about ANY games such as baseball, soccer, footy crickets, NFL, NBA, MMA, etc...

I AM BIKES.

.... there IS nothing else. so jogg-off.

AND WHERE THE .... IS MY AVY!!!

A passion can`t be ripped away,feck `em

ALR · Oct 28, 2012

There have always been periods where certain countries / riders have dominated MotoGP. The 80s / 90s saw American / Australian riders filling all the top berths – why? Probably because you needed to cut your teeth on offroad machines to be able to tame the wild 500cc two strokes. We are now in a situation where that requirement has diminished, and to be eligible for a ride in a top team you need to move to Spain at the age of 14 and compete in their domestic championship – sort of rules it out for many. Of course, this has played nicely into the hands of Repsol / Dorna who now have what they always wanted – 2 Italians and 2 Spaniards on the only 4 bikes capable of winning the championship. The rest of us are left squabbling about whether rider x or rider y generation should get a ride on a bike that is never going to win.

Always makes me laugh, the concept that Sebastian Vettel is the world Champ so must be the best driver in the world. No, he is the best of those who have had the opportunity of driving an F1 car – it is not a very long list and there are possibly millions of people out there who could do better. That has always been the case, but increasingly those ‘opportunities’ are dwindling and we are left with the present fiasco in the MotoGP / Spanish-Italian Championship. Where are the Japanese riders? Americans? Aussies etc.

Silverstone 1980 – Bazza’s Dad vainly trying to adjust the carbs on the YZ500 to get it running on all 4 cyclinders, Jock Taylor and Benga Johannssen getting close to the solo lap record in qualifying, ‘Crazyhorse’ up all night in his shed making a new style nose fairing for his outfit, probably assisted by John Noakes – days never to return. Shame.

mylexicon · Oct 28, 2012

The rest of us are left squabbling about whether rider x or rider y generation should get a ride on a bike that is never going to win.

Let's hope the spec ECU changes the competitive landscape of the sport. I'm not a fan of the spec-ECU, but I can see that it might have a positive impact in improving the competitiveness of satellite machines (no longer can the factories detune their own satellite team) and removing riding-around-the-electronics as a necessary MotoGP skill. Superfluous rider 'skills' pertaining to the electronics and the uncompetitiveness of satellite teams have both been damaging unintended consequences of the 21L formula.

ALR · Oct 28, 2012

mylexicon said:
Let's hope the spec ECU changes the competitive landscape of the sport. I'm not a fan of the spec-ECU, but I can see that it might have a positive impact in improving the competitiveness of satellite machines (no longer can the factories detune their own satellite team) and removing riding-around-the-electronics as a necessary MotoGP skill. Superfluous rider 'skills' pertaining to the electronics and the uncompetitiveness of satellite teams have both been damaging unintended consequences of the 21L formula.

Unfortunately it is a truism that only in times of conflict, does technology really advance. During the manufacturers 'wars' of the early 60's, when the gloves were off and there were few restrictions, Honda's RC116 50cc racer of 1966 was producing 16bhp @21,500 rpm - that is 320 bhp / litre! Technical interest in most forms of motorsport is now as yawn-worthy as the racing - maybe we need less restrictions, not more.

ALR · Oct 28, 2012

Phillip Island, 2008 - Marco Simoncelli pole time 1.32.075 on a 250cc. Forget the CRT bikes, forget the factory Ducatis - wheel out some 4 year old 250's to fill the grid.

mylexicon · Oct 28, 2012

ALR said:
Unfortunately it is a truism that only in times of conflict, does technology really advance. During the manufacturers 'wars' of the early 60's, when the gloves were off and there were few restrictions, Honda's RC116 50cc racer of 1966 was producing 16bhp @21,500 rpm - that is 320 bhp / litre! Technical interest in most forms of motorsport is now as yawn-worthy as the racing - maybe we need less restrictions, not more.

Naturally, we need liberalized rulebooks, but sanctioning bodies have had over 50 years to loosen the regulations. With the exception of Group C, which eventually collapsed under the weight of its own success, we have had almost no progress.

Personally, I don't expect Dorna to work miracles with a group of manufacturers who are known to propose any rule that increases financial aggression between the manufacturers--rules that ultimately bend the cost curve into a dysfunctional situation in which the sport cannot generate sufficient revenues nor and the manufacturers lack sufficient capital to make changes to the technical regulations.

ALR · Oct 28, 2012

mylexicon said:
Naturally, we need liberalized rulebooks, but sanctioning bodies have had over 50 years to loosen the regulations. With the exception of Group C, which eventually collapsed under the weight of its own success, we have had almost no progress.

Personally, I don't expect Dorna to work miracles with a group of manufacturers who are known to propose any rule that increases financial aggression between the manufacturers--rules that ultimately bend the cost curve into a dysfunctional situation in which the sport cannot generate sufficient revenues nor and the manufacturers lack sufficient capital to make changes to the technical regulations.

All true, but innovation does not have to cost money. Guzzi in the 50's left their fairings unpainted to save a few grammes of weight - probably made sod all difference, but that spirit of adventure (way before my time!) sounds exciting.

Suppose I will put my plans for a 1 stroke engine on hold.

Mick D · Oct 28, 2012

ALR said:
Phillip Island, 2008 - Marco Simoncelli pole time 1.32.075 on a 250cc. Forget the CRT bikes, forget the factory Ducatis - wheel out some 4 year old 250's to fill the grid.

Yes and Casey quallied with a 1.28.665 that day. 18° air temp 30° track temp and only 36% humidity. Sunday Casey quallied with a 1.29.623. 12° air temp, 26° track temp and 72% humidity on totally different (harder and harder to ride) Bridgestones... What's yer point comparing apples and oranges?

Mick D · Oct 28, 2012

ALR said:
Unfortunately it is a truism that only in times of conflict, does technology really advance. During the manufacturers 'wars' of the early 60's, when the gloves were off and there were few restrictions, Honda's RC116 50cc racer of 1966 was producing 16bhp @21,500 rpm - that is 320 bhp / litre! Technical interest in most forms of motorsport is now as yawn-worthy as the racing - maybe we need less restrictions, not more.

First, as I sure you are well aware, 50cc doesn't directly translate to 1000cc so easy as mass and its movement increases. Honda could have spent all of the sixties AND seventies trying to produce a reliable 320hp litre racebike but it would not have happened with the retro-tech of the day.

Second, you apparently feel that mechanical technology is more interesting and pertinent to motorsport than electronic technology... do you still send more snail mail than emails? maybe we should go back to a even simpler time - how's your morse code? Kids tuning drifters/streetracers and bikes today are as adept at tuning an ECU as we were tuning carbs. And guess what? They find it interesting and cool. They test a micro-change in their electronic settings just as MotoGuzzi left fairings unpainted... it might not really do anything but they don't know 'til they try!! Its not "worse" just "different". The clock rarely turns back on technology (unless you were living in Cambodia in '75 thru '79)!

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