as most of you know, indianapolis will be hosting a GP for the 2008 season and beyond. as an east coast american i love the idea of being within driving distance of one of the races. however i was thinking it seems a little strange that the US, a country that for the most part is oblivious to the sport, is hosting two GPs. this is a topic that hasnt been discussed much on the boards or anywhere else that i have seen, and i just wanted to know what all the fans across the pond think of the situation. the american media has a habit of destroying everything it touches, and as much as i am looking forward to being able to attend a race i cant help but be somewhat apprehensive about what could happen to the sport, should it become mainstream here in the US. i want to hear what you all have to say
Joined Jun 2007
3K Posts | 309+
UK
'should it become mainstream here in the US. i want to hear what you all have to say'
Is AMA SBK mainstream with all its American stars racing in it?
Is F1 massively mainstream with the GP?
If motorcycle racing or road racing in general is not popular or mainstream now then MotoGP won't become either so no need to worry...
Besides, just because it may become mainstream in the US does not mean the sport will change since it is a global sport and the US is not all of the world....until an American company buys out Dorna to own MotoGP then it will remain pretty much as we know and love it....
Then again maybe one day Harley or Buell will make a GP bike to race against the Japanese and European GP bikes....
Is AMA SBK mainstream with all its American stars racing in it?
Is F1 massively mainstream with the GP?
If motorcycle racing or road racing in general is not popular or mainstream now then MotoGP won't become either so no need to worry...
Besides, just because it may become mainstream in the US does not mean the sport will change since it is a global sport and the US is not all of the world....until an American company buys out Dorna to own MotoGP then it will remain pretty much as we know and love it....
Then again maybe one day Harley or Buell will make a GP bike to race against the Japanese and European GP bikes....
It won't become mainstream and if it did that would be good for the sport. Don't worry Dorna and the FIM aren't gonna let the USA destroy the sport - I think they could easily do that themselves without letting Americans touch it.
As for 2 GP's I think if American's support it it'll be a good idea. Spain has 3, so why not? The only trouble I have is the INDY circuit (although I can't pass judgement yet). I would of preferred to see a new circuit, purpose built for motorcycle racing with a fast, free flowing track.
As for 2 GP's I think if American's support it it'll be a good idea. Spain has 3, so why not? The only trouble I have is the INDY circuit (although I can't pass judgement yet). I would of preferred to see a new circuit, purpose built for motorcycle racing with a fast, free flowing track.
When this news first came out i was very much opposed to having a GP on an oval infield track in the US, but now i have quite warmed up to the idea. Firstly Indy has a lot of herritage and i think its gonna be great to have an event taking place in a venue with such massive crowd capacity, if they can get people going its gonna be HUGE
Also even though i am a fan of the "old-skool" tracks i think as the pinnacle of the sport motogp needs to cover different types of circuit, including oval infields that some accuse of having less "character" than somewhere like donninngton park, but we have plenty of dull tracks giving us decent GP's, look at China, Motegi and Valencia.
I think Indy should be good, my issue now has shifted to Laguna. They don't run the full GP program, it produces one of the worst races every year its existed and now the country has a proper GP i don't really think it has a place in the world championship. Perhaps it should just be an exhibition race for promotional purposes.
I think Indy should be good, my issue now has shifted to Laguna. They don't run the full GP program, it produces one of the worst races every year its existed and now the country has a proper GP i don't really think it has a place in the world championship. Perhaps it should just be an exhibition race for promotional purposes.
I sort of raised this point on another thread in relation to the circuit here in Estoril. Estoril is one of the best tracks on the circuit, loved my riders and developers alike. GP has a contract here only until 2009 and now there are talks about seeing the circuit either to a condo developing company or to the state. Now if it goes to the state there is probably no danger to the future of GP over here, but if the developers win then the circuit is pretty much gone. This could be one reason why they have added another GP track in the USA seeing as the future of Estoril is in question.
My biggest problem with the US tracks is their lay out, they aren't planned for motorcycles and they are really boring for the viewers and the riders. Spains tracks (as much as I hate to admit it) are built for bikes as the sport is very important there. Just like in the states you have baseball diamonds all over the place for kids to start playing earily in Portugal and Spain you have tracks so kids can start early on bikes and kit cars (I think that's what you call them in english) so it's no surprise that there are more and better tracks over here.
So far as Estoril goes and the chances of it disappearing, what lends weight to this is the fact that they are building a new track in the Algarve and in terms of power within the orgainzation Portugal has in the past had very little (however this year the VIP for FIM is portuguese), so based on history it is unlikely that we will be hosting two major GP events. The US track could be making up for this. However, if Estoril and Algarve both stay on the circuit calander and if the new US track doesn't fill up as it should, I'm thinking it will probably be taken off the circuit.
In any case I don't see motoGP ever going main stream in the states or Canada simply because there isn't much of a motorcycle culture (no offence). Over here you see people on 600cc, 1000cc and over rain or shine, and kids get their DT 50's as soon as they turn 14. Bikes here offer a serious advantage in terms of travel (the parking sucks and everything is close enough that it doesn't matter if it rains...we also don't have snow or ice) so it's always going to be in the blood in Portugal and Spain. Clear evidence of this is the cops who don't really care all that much if bikers brake the rules of the road (ie. passing inbetween cars, parking on the side walks, doing 280 on the highway). Of course there will always be fans all over the world, the US and Canada is no exception, but to go mainstream it has to be something that everyone can relate to because it's a part of their everyday lives. That is the case here, even if you have never been on a bike and don't like them you know what a Honda Blackbird, R1, CBR, and DT is.
Anyway, sorry for the long post.
Edit: I also forgot to mention that the president of FIM is now south american so this might have something to do with wanted to add more american (as in the two continents) circuits in general.
My biggest problem with the US tracks is their lay out, they aren't planned for motorcycles and they are really boring for the viewers and the riders. Spains tracks (as much as I hate to admit it) are built for bikes as the sport is very important there. Just like in the states you have baseball diamonds all over the place for kids to start playing earily in Portugal and Spain you have tracks so kids can start early on bikes and kit cars (I think that's what you call them in english) so it's no surprise that there are more and better tracks over here.
So far as Estoril goes and the chances of it disappearing, what lends weight to this is the fact that they are building a new track in the Algarve and in terms of power within the orgainzation Portugal has in the past had very little (however this year the VIP for FIM is portuguese), so based on history it is unlikely that we will be hosting two major GP events. The US track could be making up for this. However, if Estoril and Algarve both stay on the circuit calander and if the new US track doesn't fill up as it should, I'm thinking it will probably be taken off the circuit.
In any case I don't see motoGP ever going main stream in the states or Canada simply because there isn't much of a motorcycle culture (no offence). Over here you see people on 600cc, 1000cc and over rain or shine, and kids get their DT 50's as soon as they turn 14. Bikes here offer a serious advantage in terms of travel (the parking sucks and everything is close enough that it doesn't matter if it rains...we also don't have snow or ice) so it's always going to be in the blood in Portugal and Spain. Clear evidence of this is the cops who don't really care all that much if bikers brake the rules of the road (ie. passing inbetween cars, parking on the side walks, doing 280 on the highway). Of course there will always be fans all over the world, the US and Canada is no exception, but to go mainstream it has to be something that everyone can relate to because it's a part of their everyday lives. That is the case here, even if you have never been on a bike and don't like them you know what a Honda Blackbird, R1, CBR, and DT is.
Anyway, sorry for the long post.
Edit: I also forgot to mention that the president of FIM is now south american so this might have something to do with wanted to add more american (as in the two continents) circuits in general.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Thats just it.It doesnt have to become mainstream in America to make money.The US is so big it could become popular in a couple of states and come close to matching the fan base of Italy and Spain.The US is a still a young country and has a vast amount of real estate and to this point have not seen the necessity to become a motorcyle riding culture.The US is still having a love affair with the Automobile and rightfully so.We are not limited in space for the most part and it takes a real biker to take off across a country of this size.The majority of the bikers in the US are posers who think owning a Harley will get them layed.Some of these other countries have hundreds of years head start on overpopulating their real estate to where bikes become a necessity.Give us time,we will catch up
I guess it's possible, but it's not just about us being crowded over here. And as for long trips, most of us have riden our bikes all the way to Italy, Greece, Germany, etc. I'm not trying to ofend anyone here but when I was over in north america there didn't really seem to be a diving culture, bikes or cars. I hardly ever saw a standard car much less a motorcycle. The importance of motorcycles around here goes a lot deeper then not enough space for cars. It's about the spirit of the thing and roads that aren't straight. I can't really see how much fun it would be to drive coast to coast (I did this only in Canada) where everything is completely straight (except for the rockies). The fun of having a bike is cornering with it, just as the fun of having a car is controlling the engine and having gears not just drive and neutral.
You are right about the space though. If the US wanted to I think they could build some pretty good tracks over there.
You are right about the space though. If the US wanted to I think they could build some pretty good tracks over there.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (citadina @ Feb 24 2008, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In any case I don't see motoGP ever going main stream in the states or Canada simply because there isn't much of a motorcycle culture (no offence). Over here you see people on 600cc, 1000cc and over rain or shine, and kids get their DT 50's as soon as they turn 14. Bikes here offer a serious advantage in terms of travel (the parking sucks and everything is close enough that it doesn't matter if it rains...we also don't have snow or ice) so it's always going to be in the blood in Portugal and Spain. Clear evidence of this is the cops who don't really care all that much if bikers brake the rules of the road (ie. passing inbetween cars, parking on the side walks, doing 280 on the highway). Of course there will always be fans all over the world, the US and Canada is no exception, but to go mainstream it has to be something that everyone can relate to because it's a part of their everyday lives. That is the case here, even if you have never been on a bike and don't like them you know what a Honda Blackbird, R1, CBR, and DT is.
Interestingly sports bikes are more popular in the UK than anywhere else in the world as a percentage of the motorcyle market. Thats why most of the factories design their bikes with us in mind, over here people ride sports bikes for everything. Mainland Europe has more of a moped culture, due to the fact that they were the cheapest way to re-mobalize poverty stricken nations devestated by world war two. This is why europe embraced the two stroke engine more so than anywhere else, and it shows in their racing history.
I don't know a lot about the biking culture in the US, but you guys have more than enough space to play with so if you may not use bikes like us as transport, you certainly use them effectively as toys, similar to what i hear of Australia and their similar dirt tracking scene (me being jealous).
Interestingly sports bikes are more popular in the UK than anywhere else in the world as a percentage of the motorcyle market. Thats why most of the factories design their bikes with us in mind, over here people ride sports bikes for everything. Mainland Europe has more of a moped culture, due to the fact that they were the cheapest way to re-mobalize poverty stricken nations devestated by world war two. This is why europe embraced the two stroke engine more so than anywhere else, and it shows in their racing history.
I don't know a lot about the biking culture in the US, but you guys have more than enough space to play with so if you may not use bikes like us as transport, you certainly use them effectively as toys, similar to what i hear of Australia and their similar dirt tracking scene (me being jealous).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 25 2008, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Interestingly sports bikes are more popular in the UK than anywhere else in the world as a percentage of the motorcyle market. Thats why most of the factories design their bikes with us in mind, over here people ride sports bikes for everything. Mainland Europe has more of a moped culture, due to the fact that they were the cheapest way to re-mobalize poverty stricken nations devestated by world war two. This is why europe embraced the two stroke engine more so than anywhere else, and it shows in their racing history.
I don't know a lot about the biking culture in the US, but you guys have more than enough space to play with so if you may not use bikes like us as transport, you certainly use them effectively as toys, similar to what i hear of Australia and their similar dirt tracking scene (me being jealous).
Tom, first of all not all mainland europe countries have a moped culture, nor are we all poverty stricken nations devestated by world war two (portugal and spain being cases in point). We never got envolved, but I believe england did get bombed did it not?
As for the whole question of percentage of the motorcycle market, that statement only makes any sense if the population of the country is taken into account. For it's size and GDP Portugal has one of the most active motorcycle markets, especialy in what we here call the R segment (CBR, R1 and R6, ninjas, etc). Not only that but there is a great deal of turn around here. People change up their bike frequenty, which is only natural if you start with a DT at 15...by 21 you've got yourself at least a 600 or a 1000 cc.
As for the whole moped question, I ride every single day and see much less mopeds and much more of the larger scooters, most of all though there are more of the bigger faster bikes. You see, here if you have an R1 you can actually get it to redline in 6th since the cops don't really care, we actually use our bikes to there full potential and, thanks to our many 'national' twisty turny roads we actually ride our bikes.
And just in case you want the figures here is the link to prove my point
http://www.motorcyclists-online.com/o1_634...-ON-SADDLE.html
Based on this data the only country in mainland europe that can be called a moped culture is Italy, which has the top sales. Next in line is Spain with the higher cc road bikes and next comes Germany followed way behind by the UK. So as for your statement that mainland europe's bike culture was hindered by us over here being "war torn" I shall remind you that, unless my history is way wrong, Germany was pretty war-torn but still manages to wholy out sell the UK.
The only figures I found for Portugal are here, showing that scooters overhere haven't moved much but our higher end bikes were up 29,4% while as in the UK they only rose 19,7%. http://www.motorcyclesb2b.com/htm/editor/e...eech_charts.htm
By the way if I had a 0,25 euros for everyone that has claimed <span style="color:#008000most of the factories design their bikes with us in mind I would right now be richer than sin.
I don't know a lot about the biking culture in the US, but you guys have more than enough space to play with so if you may not use bikes like us as transport, you certainly use them effectively as toys, similar to what i hear of Australia and their similar dirt tracking scene (me being jealous).
Tom, first of all not all mainland europe countries have a moped culture, nor are we all poverty stricken nations devestated by world war two (portugal and spain being cases in point). We never got envolved, but I believe england did get bombed did it not?
As for the whole question of percentage of the motorcycle market, that statement only makes any sense if the population of the country is taken into account. For it's size and GDP Portugal has one of the most active motorcycle markets, especialy in what we here call the R segment (CBR, R1 and R6, ninjas, etc). Not only that but there is a great deal of turn around here. People change up their bike frequenty, which is only natural if you start with a DT at 15...by 21 you've got yourself at least a 600 or a 1000 cc.
As for the whole moped question, I ride every single day and see much less mopeds and much more of the larger scooters, most of all though there are more of the bigger faster bikes. You see, here if you have an R1 you can actually get it to redline in 6th since the cops don't really care, we actually use our bikes to there full potential and, thanks to our many 'national' twisty turny roads we actually ride our bikes.
And just in case you want the figures here is the link to prove my point
http://www.motorcyclists-online.com/o1_634...-ON-SADDLE.html
Based on this data the only country in mainland europe that can be called a moped culture is Italy, which has the top sales. Next in line is Spain with the higher cc road bikes and next comes Germany followed way behind by the UK. So as for your statement that mainland europe's bike culture was hindered by us over here being "war torn" I shall remind you that, unless my history is way wrong, Germany was pretty war-torn but still manages to wholy out sell the UK.
The only figures I found for Portugal are here, showing that scooters overhere haven't moved much but our higher end bikes were up 29,4% while as in the UK they only rose 19,7%. http://www.motorcyclesb2b.com/htm/editor/e...eech_charts.htm
By the way if I had a 0,25 euros for everyone that has claimed <span style="color:#008000most of the factories design their bikes with us in mind I would right now be richer than sin.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (citadina @ Feb 25 2008, 06:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Tom, first of all not all mainland europe countries have a moped culture, nor are we all poverty stricken nations devestated by world war two (portugal and spain being cases in point). We never got envolved, but I believe england did get bombed did it not?
As for the whole question of percentage of the motorcycle market, that statement only makes any sense if the population of the country is taken into account. For it's size and GDP Portugal has one of the most active motorcycle markets, especialy in what we here call the R segment (CBR, R1 and R6, ninjas, etc). Not only that but there is a great deal of turn around here. People change up their bike frequenty, which is only natural if you start with a DT at 15...by 21 you've got yourself at least a 600 or a 1000 cc.
As for the whole moped question, I ride every single day and see much less mopeds and much more of the larger scooters, most of all though there are more of the bigger faster bikes. You see, here if you have an R1 you can actually get it to redline in 6th since the cops don't really care, we actually use our bikes to there full potential and, thanks to our many 'national' twisty turny roads we actually ride our bikes.
By the way if I had a 0,25 euros for everyone that has claimed <span style="color:#008000most of the factories design their bikes with us in mind
I would right now be richer then sin.
My statistic is valid, but naturally the numbers can be manipulated to support your cause, so it makes little difference. As for my other statements, i understand that what was true does not necessarilly remain the case, some of the poorer countries in europe have developed a lot in relatively recent years (spain being a good example) and motorcyle cultures that began with the moped have since moved on to bigger and better things, thats how it goes.
As for the whole question of percentage of the motorcycle market, that statement only makes any sense if the population of the country is taken into account. For it's size and GDP Portugal has one of the most active motorcycle markets, especialy in what we here call the R segment (CBR, R1 and R6, ninjas, etc). Not only that but there is a great deal of turn around here. People change up their bike frequenty, which is only natural if you start with a DT at 15...by 21 you've got yourself at least a 600 or a 1000 cc.
As for the whole moped question, I ride every single day and see much less mopeds and much more of the larger scooters, most of all though there are more of the bigger faster bikes. You see, here if you have an R1 you can actually get it to redline in 6th since the cops don't really care, we actually use our bikes to there full potential and, thanks to our many 'national' twisty turny roads we actually ride our bikes.
By the way if I had a 0,25 euros for everyone that has claimed <span style="color:#008000most of the factories design their bikes with us in mind
I would right now be richer then sin.
My statistic is valid, but naturally the numbers can be manipulated to support your cause, so it makes little difference. As for my other statements, i understand that what was true does not necessarilly remain the case, some of the poorer countries in europe have developed a lot in relatively recent years (spain being a good example) and motorcyle cultures that began with the moped have since moved on to bigger and better things, thats how it goes.
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
Who cares what these Limey Island Monkey Euros think? .... them! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif
Why are they having more MotoGPs in US?
The Dorna wants to increase viewership in the US. MotoGP is already HUGE. Worldwode audience every race weekend exceeds Superbowl viewership. Imagine that! A superbowl every two weeks. So, there is somethign inherently exciting about about watching it on TV -- but then every one here know that. They are trying t get to the huge "NASCAR dad" market. Obviously, havign races in Indiana will be closer to the target audience than California. The races are just to promote TV viewership -- just like concerts are for CD sales.
Will MotoGP ever become mainstream in the US?
No way. Why?
1. There are too many "foreigners" with diffcult names to pronounce. Many americans don't like that.
2. The US TV season is already filled with sports event that have been cleverly scheduled to provide year round entertainment -- Football, Baseball, NBA, College sports, hockey. All these seasons take up the whole year.. While the motoGP audience might drow, I don't think it will ever become mainstream. Heck, most of my friends who ride sportbikes don't watch MotoGP.
The Dorna wants to increase viewership in the US. MotoGP is already HUGE. Worldwode audience every race weekend exceeds Superbowl viewership. Imagine that! A superbowl every two weeks. So, there is somethign inherently exciting about about watching it on TV -- but then every one here know that. They are trying t get to the huge "NASCAR dad" market. Obviously, havign races in Indiana will be closer to the target audience than California. The races are just to promote TV viewership -- just like concerts are for CD sales.
Will MotoGP ever become mainstream in the US?
No way. Why?
1. There are too many "foreigners" with diffcult names to pronounce. Many americans don't like that.
2. The US TV season is already filled with sports event that have been cleverly scheduled to provide year round entertainment -- Football, Baseball, NBA, College sports, hockey. All these seasons take up the whole year.. While the motoGP audience might drow, I don't think it will ever become mainstream. Heck, most of my friends who ride sportbikes don't watch MotoGP.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 25 2008, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My statistic is valid, but naturally the numbers can be manipulated to support your cause, so it makes little difference. As for my other statements, i understand that what was true does not necessarilly remain the case, some of the poorer countries in europe have developed a lot in relatively recent years (spain being a good example) and motorcyle cultures that began with the moped have since moved on to bigger and better things, thats how it goes.
The only thing that I will say is that the numbers came from two independent websites none of which I had any hand in the handling of the math, but thank you for thinking me clever enough to do so.
I really have no interest in saying anything else as it would obviously be completly useless even if God himself backed up my historical and current valid and verified points.
The only thing that I will say is that the numbers came from two independent websites none of which I had any hand in the handling of the math, but thank you for thinking me clever enough to do so.
I really have no interest in saying anything else as it would obviously be completly useless even if God himself backed up my historical and current valid and verified points.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crvlvr @ Feb 25 2008, 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. There are too many "foreigners" with diffcult names to pronounce. Many americans don't like that.
There are a myriad of reasons why motogp will never be big in America:
1. Motorcycling has always been an outlaw culture in the U.S.
2. American drivers are so bad, motorcycling is nearly as dangerous as people believe.
3. The Gen Pub doesn't have a clue how moto physics works so they are petrified of them (they think they just fall over, even at speed; countersteering is voodoo).
4. We have an abundance of awful roads and giant cars.
5. We aren't going to wake up at 8 to psych up for a motogp race. I'm not staying up until 1 or 2 in the morning either. If it ain't live the internet will spoil it. ......... at motogp.com put race results on every page. I'm paying 100 bucks a season to have every weekend spoiled prematurely.
6. Few world class venues.
7. AMA is broken.
8. NASCAR rules motorsports on Sunday.
9. We don't understand European rules. Europeans write 90 technical regulations to slow things down. Americans drill four holes in a $20 piece of metal and call it a restrictor plate.
1. Motorcycling has always been an outlaw culture in the U.S.
2. American drivers are so bad, motorcycling is nearly as dangerous as people believe.
3. The Gen Pub doesn't have a clue how moto physics works so they are petrified of them (they think they just fall over, even at speed; countersteering is voodoo).
4. We have an abundance of awful roads and giant cars.
5. We aren't going to wake up at 8 to psych up for a motogp race. I'm not staying up until 1 or 2 in the morning either. If it ain't live the internet will spoil it. ......... at motogp.com put race results on every page. I'm paying 100 bucks a season to have every weekend spoiled prematurely.
6. Few world class venues.
7. AMA is broken.
8. NASCAR rules motorsports on Sunday.
9. We don't understand European rules. Europeans write 90 technical regulations to slow things down. Americans drill four holes in a $20 piece of metal and call it a restrictor plate.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 25 2008, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Who cares what these Limey Island Monkey Euros think? .... them! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif
Cruve, isn't it your 7 PM feeding time? I'll get the beer and you can go back to your bedroom.
Nicky was on NBC's Today Show about 3 years ago. That is about as big as things got. They said what he did, the chicks went wild, but really were clueless to what he did.
Cruve, isn't it your 7 PM feeding time? I'll get the beer and you can go back to your bedroom.
Nicky was on NBC's Today Show about 3 years ago. That is about as big as things got. They said what he did, the chicks went wild, but really were clueless to what he did.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (citadina @ Feb 25 2008, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The only thing that I will say is that the numbers came from two independent websites none of which I had any hand in the handling of the math, but thank you for thinking me clever enough to do so.
I really have no interest in saying anything else as it would obviously be completly useless even if God himself backed up my historical and current valid and verified points.
I'm not suggesting that you conducted these survey's yourself
I'm just saying that although both of our claims are valid, relevant and true, they disagree. Thats the great thing about these kind of discussions.
I really have no interest in saying anything else as it would obviously be completly useless even if God himself backed up my historical and current valid and verified points.
I'm not suggesting that you conducted these survey's yourself
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Feb 25 2008, 11:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There are a myriad of reasons why motogp will never be big in America:
2. American drivers are so bad, motorcycling is nearly as dangerous as people believe.
3. The Gen Pub doesn't have a clue how moto physics works so they are petrified of them (they think they just fall over, even at speed; <span style="color:#00FF00countersteering is voodoo).
4. <span style="color:#9ACD32We have an abundance of awful roads and giant cars.
This applies to Canada too BTW.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayden Fan @ Feb 25 2008, 11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nicky was on NBC's Today Show about 3 years ago. That is about as big as things got. They said what he did, the chicks went wild, but really were clueless to what he did.
But chicks going wild is sooooo much fun to watch.....
2. American drivers are so bad, motorcycling is nearly as dangerous as people believe.
3. The Gen Pub doesn't have a clue how moto physics works so they are petrified of them (they think they just fall over, even at speed; <span style="color:#00FF00countersteering is voodoo).
4. <span style="color:#9ACD32We have an abundance of awful roads and giant cars.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayden Fan @ Feb 25 2008, 11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nicky was on NBC's Today Show about 3 years ago. That is about as big as things got. They said what he did, the chicks went wild, but really were clueless to what he did.
But chicks going wild is sooooo much fun to watch.....
