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THE ROSSI RULE

Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
The sport revolves around Rossi.

If there is one thing we have learned about how DORNA operates in recent years, it is that 11th hour manipulation of the rolling rulebook is a handy tool to influence the sport in peculiar ways, often in a predictable theme.

After the news came out that Rossi had dropped his CAS case to have his penalty removed, it seemed at first a seemingly moot point. The ramifications did not immediately seem clear at the time. Except that Rossi’s penalty points would remain in place for a calendar year.

The rationale of carrying these penalty points over time is to discourage the offending behavior for which points are issued and accumulated in the first place. The idea is simple and intuitive, the two elements of time & accumulation tally remain to ensure that if the perpetrator continues this undesirable behavior the tally serves as a probationary period where further violations result in progressive punishment. The function of the penalty system 'seemingly' prompts Rossi (or rider in question) to be mindful about his actions and ride responsibly under the threat of additional sanctions if he chose to trample the principles and rules of fair competition.

The purpose of this penalty point system, ironically introduced in anticipation of Marc Marquez's reputation, which turns out to be useful to protect Marc Marquez from Valentino Rossi going forward, was introduced as a way to register infractions and the accumulation of which triggers certain sanctions. It is a way to catalog and register the severity of violations to punish riders who pose a danger or disregard the rules and principles of competition over time.

So what happens then if you eliminate or erode the fundamental elements necessary for this system to function, particularly: the probationary period & accumulation of points tallied? If you erode this dynamic the system loses its teeth, it's relevance, it's effectiveness and most importantly the message it's attempting to convey to the participants.

Rule change: DORNA have saw fit to erode this important dynamic of probationary period and accumulation by writing into the rulebook that a rider (with Rossi in mind no doubt) does not have to serve the sanction that was previously assigned to a specific points accumulation. For example, 4 points meant you started from the back of the grid. 7 points (edit) from the pit lane, 10 points a race ban, and so forth. DORNA have introduced a new 11th hour rule as follows: a rider may only serve a penalty once. Therefore, when Rossi's 1 penalty point expires, it will effectively mean the other 3 expire with it! If he were for example to accumulate 1 point after the 1 that expires, he would not have to start from the back of the grid as normally a rider would with 4 points. Which begs the obvious question, what points were responsible for the penalty to start from the rear of the grid at Valencia, the 3 points from Sepang or the 1 point from Misano? Neither. The penalty was a function of the accumulation of 1+3. Therefore the deterrent of the 3 remaining points should continue to serve as the ongoing restraining element vital to such a system. This probationary & aggregate component has now been eliminated!

The probationary period component has now been altered, eroded, weakened, effectively erased. The "reasoning" as weak as it is, attempts to advance a sophisticated lawyering notion that a rider who has served a penalty should not serve it again. However, this "reasoning" only serves to undermine the fundamental elements of this penalty system (one that already could be easily manipulated in favor by issuing an arbitrary minimum number of points).

The 3 points Rossi received for deliberately eliminating a fellow competitor through a violent action found to 'cause a crash' could be argued was lite, innocuous, well below the harsh necessary sanction for such an extraordinary violation (shelving the fact he was allowed to keep the 16 points ill gotten and a podium in the record books). But now DORNA have further made the sanction carry less of a punishment and less deterrent.

The penalty system was a system based on two key elements working in concert, a probationary period and an accumulation component. It is supposed to be blind to whom is the recipient as it serves to admonish a pattern of undesirable behavior and an ongoing deterrent. If the 3 points that remain after the 1 point expires does not serve as an 'ongoing deterrent' (after all, the recipient earned those points through a serious violation) then what is the point of having a system with an element of 'memory' in the form of tallying the accumulation of infractions?

It's further evidence that the League's executive or executives and marketing advicers sit at the table decidedly making rules changes in narrow focus for peculiar affect.

THE ROSSI RULE

(I'm going to coin: The Motorhome Rule)

Such a fitting nickname to a new piece in the shifting sand known as the GP rulebook, to go along with the Rossi-centric theme that has being going on for years.

Edit: 7 points result in a pit lane start.
 
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Not a fan but written by Dean Adams from Soup :: Looking For A Fall Guy? :: 01-06-2016


A good friend of mine works for a Fortune 100 company. He's some kind of vice president, and when they roll out the company employee hierarchy he is usually about the next level down from the CEO. They do something like $50 billion dollars in business every year, are a multinational and usually have over a quarter of a million employees.

Both the company and my friend's name will not be mentioned.

He's a passionate motorcycle enthusiast, has owned a ton of exotic bikes over the years, including an NR750 and RC45, Bimota VDue and some others I can't rememeber because he had so many, but those three for sure, and at the same time. He was very good at his job, highly sought after by rivals and valued by his employer.

Years ago, being a motorcycle and motorcycle race enthusiast, he felt that the company he worked for and MotoGP might be a good fit for sponsorship—series sponsor, event sponsor or maybe even a team sponsor. Budgets and programs that he oversaw had millions of dollars that were attached to them and sometimes not all of the money was used in a fiscal year.

He made his introductions to Dorna and MotoGP and let it be known he was trying to convince his boss, the CEO, to do a MotoGP buy of some sort.

Dorna, when they looked at his business card and saw his title and the company that he worked for, recognized this as a very special situation. Immediately they took a broad sword and cleared a path for my friend into the inner sanctum of MotoGP. He had the "Carmelo" pass, invites to dinner with Dorna execs and and basically no area in MotoGP save the podium was off-limits to him.

He explained up front that as much as he wanted to, he could not just throw a bale of money Dorna's way and still expect to keep his job. It doesn't really work that way when you have shareholders to answer to. He told the Dorna fellows that he had sought permission from his boss to explore the situation in MotoGP and he'd have to come back with solid info on the series and the markets that it served. He needed to do top level due diligence on MotoGP so that when he went in to talk to his boss about it that he had all the answers. There could be no surprises.

Over the course of a few years he continued to talk and meet with MotoGP execs, and when he was in Europe, which was frequently, he shadowed the Dorna execs at the track on MotoGP weekends. He saw how the chorizo was made.

I never really went "Woodward and Bernstein" on him when we'd have dinner at the track or talk on the phone in this period. Certainly it was tempting to start asking him questions about how MotoGP and Dorna really worked. Or if any of the stories I had heard over the years about how MotoGP operated were true.

He really wanted a MotoGP sponsorship or partner status to happen for his company. He was hopeful that he could slide something into the budget for several years and it would be a mutually satisfying relationship. And of course as a race guy and motor-head he could sort of meld his professional life with his passion.

I never really asked him that much about his relationship with Dorna. He'd show up standing in front of my laptop in the media center at some races with his top level pass and some Spanish guy as his host, ask "where for dinner?" and be ushered away quickly for a meeting with Carmelo, or others.

However one of the few things he did tell me seems very relevant in 2016.

To my friend, who helped oversee 300,000 employees and billions in revenue, Dorna and MotoGP were like a mom and pop business. In a bad spot once, he'd signed off on the firing of more employees in one fell swoop than Dorna actually had as a total global employee count. And he'd worked in that Fortune 100 company's mergers and acquisition department for a while, so he'd seen the inside of a great many small and medium-sized businesses. He'd seen it all, from mattress-stuffing regional trucking empires to firms run by a team of MBAs where it was a near miracle they stayed in business as long as they did.

In the end, his company decided instead to sponsor an NFL stadium and a NASCAR team. Their MotoGP partnering stopped being an "action item" in his weekly meeting with the CEO. He had to cut and run, and do a deal with a huge city in order to get the company naming rights on a stadium.

He said, when he spent those years with Dorna and the shadowing of the execs, that it seemed to him that they fully recognized what their strength was and that it had to be served.

And that strength was Valentino Rossi. And, they did serve.

He said that Dorna recognized that Valentino was basically the tail wagging the dog. That a full 30%, or more, of their business originated and ended with people enamored with Valentino Rossi. They tried to keep him happy and for all lines of communication to remain open. It wasn't favoritism so much as it was just making sure that if Rossi had any concerns that they were known and hopefully addressed.

My friend said that at the end of every single race weekend, a small team of Dorna execs would walk to Rossi's motorhome. The door would open and they would have a short meeting inside with the nine-time world champion. They asked him, basically, how did you think the weekend went? What more can we do for you?

Usually it was just Rossi needing another large box of passes and a block of seats for his fan club at the next race, but anything he said was instantly noted on a Dorna notebook and plans were made there to fix whatever Rossi felt needed fixing.

Why is this relevant in 2016? Because if anything Valentino Rossi is--at the very least--still thirty percent of MotoGP. Thirty percent of the reason people buy tickets, thirty percent of the reason people watch the races electronically.

What we know for sure after Sepang 2015 is really quite limited. Did Marquez slow in order to disable Rossi's chance at a better finish? Did Rossi kick Marquez, causing him to crash? Was it a Spanish plot to win the MotoGP title? All of those answers are largely matters of opinion.

What we know with certainty is that the 2015 season ended with Dorna's cash cow, Valentino Rossi, very angry and disgusted. Whether Rossi's anger is based on facts or not, isn't really the point if you're Dorna. The point is that he's pissed and when an entity that makes up thirty percent of your business is angry, if you're Dorna you address it.

There have been rumors for months that MotoGP Race Director Mike Webb might be re-assigned or asked to leave his post. This week, rumors circulated that Dorna CEO Carmelo Ezpeleta will be asked by his bosses at Bridgepoint, a private equity group, to step down. Ezpeleta denied it.

It seems that someone might be designated a fall guy in MotoGP. While we don't know who it will be, or even if there will be one, there is one thing we do know.

We know who it won't be.

Valentino Rossi.


This was found at Reddit and some of the comments are, to say the least, interesting - https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/comments/3zw9wv/interesting_read_about_behind_the_scenes_of_dorna/




My thoughts, a brave article in some ways from Adams who often has posted 'apologist' type of articles and one I suggest may limit his access somewhat to DORNA and/or certain sections of DORNA
 
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Excellent insight, and like Trunkman, likely to receive hate mail.

What happens if Rossi accumulates 2 more points? (Unlikely I know, Mike Webb would have to witness a murder by Rossi, and even then he'd probably just issue 1 point). But in the unlikely event Rossi earns 2 more points does he have to start from pit lane? Given the lawyering rationale is that Rossi has already paid for his 4 points; (which of course is completely illogical given that the rear grid penalty was in fact a case of accumulation. Its not like the 1 point from Misano could be paid, but rather it carried weight as a result of receiving the other 3 leading to a rear start.)

Let's further test the rationale for the new rule. If Rossi does get 2 more points and serves a pit lane penalty, when the 1 point from Misano expires, in effect so does the 3 and the additional 2 because, as the "logic" goes, he already served the penalty. Hence the next possible sanction is to reach 10 points, a race ban. This eliminates the fundamental elements of the system. He would have to accumulate 4 more points to get a start from the rear penalty where normally that would have taken him up to a race ban. Confusing? Thats what happened when you fudge and rig a system. It gets complicated.

Edit: 7 points results in a pit lane start. I think, crap no longer sure. Regardless, 6 or 7 points is a lot if you consider you can deliberately crash a guy off the track and only receive 3 points, as this precedent has set. Pause for a moment and consider: 3 points does NOT carry a penalty to be paid!!!! (You still need 1 more point, 4, to get a start from rear penalty.)
 
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Good post Jum and thanks for sharing that article Gaz.

I'm sure Migs and J4rn0 with a side helping of papabozzo will tell us none of this is true.

In any event, basically because Rossi even got penalized, Carmelo and Webb both are under fire? lol

Holy .....

The article does confirm something I suspected but was never entirely sure about; MotoGP as a mom and pop operation. It makes it far easier to rig the series in whichever way it needs to go...and the way in this case is in the way of VR.

No wonder he continues racing though. Wouldn't you if you knew that the promoters would bend over backwards to try and ensure you remain on the most competitive machinery, to the point that the rules are rewritten so severely that you're left with only 2 competitive teams in Honda and Yamaha. The only one that came close really to challenging them was Ducati, and then rules were changed and rewritten so as to try and eliminate Ducati from the top pedestal. Of course the hard thing with that is, what happens when they had a rider who happened to be the singular greatest talent the sport ever saw, and could make a bike defy the rule book and the preferred race outcome? With two factories only, VR being persona non grata at HRC left Yamaha as the only open choice. Even if Carmelo didn't speak directly to Yamaha, his lackeys would no doubt have done it so as to make the situation crystal clear.

What's insane with this, is the belief that VR is the only one worth building the series around. But even more insane is that because Dorna backed this horse the way they have, after what happened with Sepang, the likely plan of having MM be the anointed one of VR is no more. So now there is no plan for the future since the cash cow being selfish, murdered the preferred succession plan for good. Once you get past all the ........ showmanship from VR, what does he really do for the sport as a whole that is good? Nothing.
 
I said years ago right here on this forum that in the end, Rossi will be the worst thing that ever happened to Moto Gp if Dorna did not start diversifying their business plan away from being so one sided regarding everything Rossi. Have you ever seen anything like it in any other major sport where the sport itself answers to a competitor. It seems like every week, a layer is peeled away exposing the truth of what actually goes on behind the scenes of MotoGP. Someday, somebody is going to write a tell all and the boppers will be shocked, or more than likely just act as they always do and start a campaign to discredit the mess anger
 
Rolling rule book! Ha, Jum, you make me laugh man.

10 pages min. If this wasn't the offseason, 20 pages.
 
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For a forum that claims to hate "Rossi boppers", there sure are a lot of people here that can't stop thinking about him. Duc, can we change the background color to Rossi yellow and force all avatars to be Rossi pics?
 
For a forum that claims to hate "Rossi boppers", there sure are a lot of people here that can't stop thinking about him. Duc, can we change the background color to Rossi yellow and force all avatars to be Rossi pics?

If you'd been prior to 2011 on Powerslide you'd realise that the disturbingly dystopian scenario you paint, dominated by the Rossi thought police was not far from the reality. This place was at times a wasteland of yellow infested with jaundiced zombies but peppered with pockets of noble resistance against the hordes.
 
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For a forum that claims to hate "Rossi boppers", there sure are a lot of people here that can't stop thinking about him. Duc, can we change the background color to Rossi yellow and force all avatars to be Rossi pics?

When everything in every publication is nothing but Rossi propaganda , you have no choice on subject matter. It's a full time job discounting all the Rossi ........ that flows non stop around the racing world.
 
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For a forum that claims to hate "Rossi boppers", there sure are a lot of people here that can't stop thinking about him. Duc, can we change the background color to Rossi yellow and force all avatars to be Rossi pics?

There's a difference between discussing a rule change that potentially (probably) benefits Rossi and sucking his ..../discussing what colour underwear he has on.
 
I said years ago right here on this forum that in the end, Rossi will be the worst thing that ever happened to Moto Gp if Dorna did not start diversifying their business plan away from being so one sided regarding everything Rossi. Have you ever seen anything like it in any other major sport where the sport itself answers to a competitor. It seems like every week, a layer is peeled away exposing the truth of what actually goes on behind the scenes of MotoGP. Someday, somebody is going to write a tell all and the boppers will be shocked, or more than likely just act as they always do and start a campaign to discredit the mess anger


Recall you, and others saying it Pov .............. that from a pure business viewpoint, putting all of your eggs into the basket of the golden goose is nothing more than a short term income strategy where you do not then plan for or seek alternative income streams.

Problem I see (and this is NOT a criticism of VR) but VR has provided the public masses with a showman that has bought various levels of entertainment and DORNA have seen this, thus they now believe that this is the only way to maintain the stream of income and thus either need or want another showman of equal skills to VR, which is an extremely difficult thing.

Basically, DORNA are or will be in a hole of their own making and I suspect that no matter what, they will not allow the yellow gravy train to leave the sport (that again is no criticism of VR) as the effects of his popularity will continue to be manipulated for dollars for some years.

In short I guess, if these articles are right it would indicate that team VR has almost been allowed to become bigger than the sport in DORNA's eyes at least



For a forum that claims to hate "Rossi boppers", there sure are a lot of people here that can't stop thinking about him. Duc, can we change the background color to Rossi yellow and force all avatars to be Rossi pics?

Someone else said it, but with the majority of articles being about the golden goose that is VR, then discussion will focus on him.

It actually shows and supports the articles themselves, as if team VR was not DORNA's golden goose, than there would be discussion surrounding others riders or aspects of the sport.

The Fact that as Trunkman said, VR appears on the cover of more magazines than any others rider (may almost be riders combined) tells you why he is the central point of discussion.

It doesn't make it hate/love but simply gives us some BS to talk about and debate :p
 
If you'd been prior to 2011 on Powerslide you'd realise that the disturbingly dystopian scenario you paint, dominated by the Rossi thought police was not far from the reality. This place was at times a wasteland of yellow infested with jaundiced zombies but peppered with pockets of noble resistance against the hordes.

Cue the opening credits music from Star Wars.:p
Seriously - those were a few exhausting years.
 
I said years ago right here on this forum that in the end, Rossi will be the worst thing that ever happened to Moto Gp if Dorna did not start diversifying their business plan away from being so one sided regarding everything Rossi. Have you ever seen anything like it in any other major sport where the sport itself answers to a competitor. It seems like every week, a layer is peeled away exposing the truth of what actually goes on behind the scenes of MotoGP. Someday, somebody is going to write a tell all and the boppers will be shocked, or more than likely just act as they always do and start a campaign to discredit the mess anger

Settle down gramps, you may develop heart condition with your anger and paranoia . The conspiracy theorists are out in forces, need tin foil hat.
I always love these articles, no sources, no quotes, no names, no dates, of course no accountability and in quoting some lunatics on this site 'no evidence, where is your evidence?'. Oh, a few of Carmelo hanger ons went to get Rossi's request for extra tickets, Rossi has Carmelo and Dorna in his pocket. LOL..soo funny!

F1 Jean-Marie Balestre and Bernie always used to answer to Prost and later Senna. Both had become bigger than F1 at the time. One retired, the other one left us. The sport survive just fine and thrived even. NASCAR survived without Dale. It is not Dorna that has put Valentino where he is, it is the opinion of the public, this is what people want to see. If that article had any truth to it Dorna would have made sure the penalty at Sepang wouldn't be as severe as starting last since according to the BS in this thread Dorna wants to see Rossi win every race and every championship because more $$$$.

It is an amazing sporté/show full of brave riders from DiMeglio all the way up the grid. No one guy is bigger than MotoGP. Others will pick up the baton. Rossi will eventually retire most likely at the end of 2016 and there will be other up and comers for fans to support. Or maybe earlier if raging Marc crashes him and injures him, which I am sure will happen cause 'small ....... .......' is vindictive and vengeful, kinda like many on this forum. :D

EDIT....GTFO!!!!
 
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VR got a penalty at Sepang which didn't change his chances of winning the championship at all, he was in fact 3 points to the good imo after Sepang as a result of taking out MM.

I do have doubts about the independence of RD though, and there seems to be a developing trend of penalties in the second last round which keep the championship open for the last round. Even though I was very much going for Jorge against MM in 2013, I thought the DQ and loss of all points for breaking a rule literally devised 5 minutes before the race at PI 2013 as part of that monumental SNAFU by Bridgestone and Dorna was ridiculous.
 
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VR got a penalty at Sepang which didn't change his chances of winning the championship at all, he was in fact 3 points to the good imo after Sepang as a result of taking out MM.

I do have doubts about the independence of RD though, and there seems to be a developing trend of penalties in the second last round which keep the championship open for the last round. Even though I was very much going for Jorge against MM in 2013, I thought the DQ and loss of all points for breaking a rule literally devised 5 minutes before the race at PI 2013 as part of that monumental SNAFU by Bridgestone and Dorna was ridiculous.

Literally 5 minutes?
It's not hard to count to ten.
They thought they were too clever by half and it bit them in the arse.
That said - and particularly in retrospect - a DQ does seem draconian.
 
Literally 5 minutes?
It's not hard to count to ten.
They thought they were too clever by half and it bit them in the arse.
That said - and particularly in retrospect - a DQ does seem draconian.


It does in hindsight given recent penalties imposed (and I reference Hanika moreso than VR) but at the same time, the penalty was clearly communicated to the teams as was the rule that was imposed and as you say, it isn't hard to count to ten.

The 'benefit' that RD had in the case of PI was that it was a cut and dried breach not open to interpretation or individual bias - if you start lap 11 you are disqualified - is pretty clear.
 
FIM confirmed penalty points change today. You only get penalized when you get hit with 10 points....lol

So unless they've changed point totals for infractions, you could in theory punt someone off a bike and be safe.

FIM confirms penalty points tweak for MotoGP

MotoGP's ruling body FIM has confirmed changes to the penalty points system ahead of the start of the 2016 season.

The old system came under criticism following the controversy that erupted as a result of the penalty imposed on Valentino Rossi for the 2015 finale at Valencia.

The Yamaha rider was handed three penalty points for his infamous clash with Honda rival Marc Marquez at the Malaysian Grand Prix, meaning he accumulated four points and was forced the start from the back of the grid at Valencia.

Rossi went on to lose the title to teammate Jorge Lorenzo after finishing fourth in the race.

For this year, however, the system has been tweaked, and riders will only be penalised once they reach 10 penalty points.

Once a rider reaches that amount, he or she will be automatically given a race ban.

"The interim penalties previously triggered after accumulating four or seven points, no longer apply," said an FIM statement.

"Penalty Points will continue to be recorded against the record of the rider for 365 days. However, when a rider has accumulated 10 or more points and suffered a disqualification, 10 points are removed from his record."
 
Sooo..The Marquez inspired points rule has become the Rossi watered down points rule...
Just great.
 
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That is ...... up... Do like the race ban, but not sure why it takes 10 points to get to that, and there isn't any punishment up to the ban.

Very all or nothing..
 

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