The $400 Million Dollar Question?

Kropotkin · Jul 2, 2011

povol said:
Honda sells 375 X's the number of bikes world wide as Ducati per year. Using those numbers as a barometer and the realistic figure of 50 miliion by Honda, Ducatis racing budget shouldbe a little over 133 thousand a year. Using percentage of sales, Ducati spends more than all the OEM combined

True, but Ducati get their costs covered by Marlboro and other sponsors. Enel, the energy supplier, supply the Bologna factory (not just Corse, but all of Ducati) with free electricity for the space they get on the bike. That's a brilliant piece of deal-making by Ducati. I'm impressed by what Ducati have been able to achieve despite being the smallest manufacturer on the grid.

Mick D · Jul 2, 2011

muzzy57 said:
Mr Honda, until you bring out a decent looking sport touring bike again, my dollars are going elsewhere... I mean, really what were they thinking with the VFR1200? It's had a couple of really decent taps with the ugly stick!

Eye of the beholder no doubt!

BarryMachine · Jul 2, 2011

Have to agree with Muzzy, that is one ugly bike! Its so ugly, only a pommie could like it!

Now back to the original topic!

It would seem that both Talpa and Krop. are wrong on their figures! I was watching an interview with Troy B and Daryl B tonight and it would seem the currency talked about is not "$" but eggs. Troy said that Ducati have "put all there eggs in one basket now" in hiring Rossi. And as we know Rossi is indeed a basket case and he rather imagines he even lays eggs himself, having once declared that he is an old chicken who can still lay eggs .......................

I'm lost!!! ......... is Rossi being paid in eggs!!??

Faaaaarrrrrr%!!!! what is it about Ducati and eggs ? I thought they already had enough egg on their face lately

PS. Anyone notice that Troy and Daryl's interview was done at a ride day at the same track that Stoner did that Honda ad.?? The one at Mangrove Mountain ........ it was a poultry farming capital of Aust. a few years back ......... Eggs galore there!!! I suspect Dorna are eyeing it off as a substitute for PI ........ only Penguin eggs there

povol · Jul 2, 2011

Kropotkin said:
True, but Ducati get their costs covered by Marlboro and other sponsors. Enel, the energy supplier, supply the Bologna factory (not just Corse, but all of Ducati) with free electricity for the space they get on the bike. That's a brilliant piece of deal-making by Ducati. I'm impressed by what Ducati have been able to achieve despite being the smallest manufacturer on the grid.

As am i, just pointing out to Talps that Honda spending big money in racing is nothing new.I do believe that Ducati is spending more now than ever because of Rossi, weather its their money or someone elses. When you say Honda spend 50 million, is that on top of the 20=30 million that Repsol and the other sponsors kick in.

chopperman · Jul 2, 2011

Andy Roo said:
All the factories have a budget and let's face it, Honda haven't won an 800 title and it disappears next year. We all know that with 4 factory riders out there they have stacked their odds pretty well, and Casey is their ace card.

I wouldn't say Casey was an ACE card. He is definitely a picture card. I'm thinking more a queen.

Austin · Jul 2, 2011

BarryMachine said:
Have to agree with Muzzy, that is one ugly bike! Its so ugly, only a pommie could like it!

Now back to the original topic!

It would seem that both Talpa and Krop. are wrong on their figures! I was watching an interview with Troy B and Daryl B tonight and it would seem the currency talked about is not "$" but eggs. Troy said that Ducati have "put all there eggs in one basket now" in hiring Rossi. And as we know Rossi is indeed a basket case and he rather imagines he even lays eggs himself, having once declared that he is an old chicken who can still lay eggs .......................

I'm lost!!! ......... is Rossi being paid in eggs!!??

Faaaaarrrrrr%!!!! what is it about Ducati and eggs ? I thought they already had enough egg on their face lately

PS. Anyone notice that Troy and Daryl's interview was done at a ride day at the same track that Stoner did that Honda ad.?? The one at Mangrove Mountain ........ it was a poultry farming capital of Aust. a few years back ......... Eggs galore there!!! I suspect Dorna are eyeing it off as a substitute for PI ........ only Penguin eggs there

Ty Webb: You take drugs, Danny?

Danny Noonan: Every day.

Ty Webb: Good.

Gaz · Jul 2, 2011

chopperman said:
I wouldn't say Casey was an ACE card. He is definitely a picture card. I'm thinking more a queen.

Does this mean Ducati drew the Joker .

Gaz

michaelm · Jul 2, 2011

chopperman said:
I wouldn't say Casey was an ACE card. He is definitely a picture card. I'm thinking more a queen.

If he is a queen he is a killer queen.

Andy Roo · Jul 2, 2011

chopperman said:
I wouldn't say Casey was an ACE card. He is definitely a picture card. I'm thinking more a queen.

The points and the wins make him the King then, if a queen then he shall she christened "Victoria" whose empire grew and grew

Gaz said:
Does this mean Ducati drew the Joker .

Gaz

They got the emperors new clothes and one basket with all their eggs in it

michaelm said:
If he is a queen he is a killer queen.

chopperman · Jul 3, 2011

Gaz said:
Does this mean Ducati drew the Joker .

Gaz

It would appear so

Nuts · Jul 4, 2011

For what it is worth, Repsol sponsorship of HRC for 2011 is reportedly worth US$ 15.0mil, up from approx. US$ 10.0mil in 2010.

See: http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/repsol_to_fund_hrcs_motogp_expansion/

Marlboro renewed their Ferrari sponsorship in June, at approx. US$ 160.0 mil per year for 2012 to 2015. Marlboro are also reprtedly chipping in approx. Euro 22.0 mil a year over 2 years to Ducati with Rossi on board, up from about Euro $ 12.0 mil in 2010.

In 2009, Ducati's Corse's MotoGP / WSBK budget was Euro 40.0mil of which approx. 75% was sponsorship income, and approx. 25% came from Ducat. Of that US$ 40.0mil, approx. 75% went in to MotoGP. With the end of the factory supported WSBK team in 2011, and the increased money from Marlboro, Ducati's MotoGP budget in 2011 is probably similar (or even higher) than Yamaha and Honda, but a big chuck of that budget must be going to Rossi, earning a reported Euro 15.0 mil a year over two years from Ducati and Marlboro (comparred to Euro 3.0mil Ducati paid Stoner in 2010).

As a comparrison, Rizla are reportedly paying less than Euro 1.0 mil per year to Suzuki for their MotoGP team.

Talpa · Jul 5, 2011

Nuts said:
For what it is worth, Repsol sponsorship of HRC for 2011 is reportedly worth US$ 15.0mil, up from approx. US$ 10.0mil in 2010.

See: http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/repsol_to_fund_hrcs_motogp_expansion/

Yes but how much are Honda Spending? I know the Initial reports from Motorcycle USA are fairly generous, but only one sponsors figure doesn't go to explaining the budget.... Kropo has hinted Honda's spend is more likely around $60-80 Million for 2011.

Nuts said:
Marlboro renewed their Ferrari sponsorship in June, at approx. US$ 160.0 mil per year for 2012 to 2015. Marlboro are also reprtedly chipping in approx. Euro 22.0 mil a year over 2 years to Ducati with Rossi on board, up from about Euro $ 12.0 mil in 2010.

In 2009, Ducati's Corse's MotoGP / WSBK budget was Euro 40.0mil of which approx. 75% was sponsorship income, and approx. 25% came from Ducat. Of that US$ 40.0mil, approx. 75% went in to MotoGP. With the end of the factory supported WSBK team in 2011, and the increased money from Marlboro, Ducati's MotoGP budget in 2011 is probably similar (or even higher) than Yamaha and Honda, but a big chuck of that budget must be going to Rossi, earning a reported Euro 15.0 mil a year over two years from Ducati and Marlboro (comparred to Euro 3.0mil Ducati paid Stoner in 2010).

As a comparrison, Rizla are reportedly paying less than Euro 1.0 mil per year to Suzuki for their MotoGP team.

How do you figure this? As we don't exactly know who's spending what, all I know is to field '4' factory bikes, and '2' satellite bikes Honda would certainly have to be considered the top spender, and by a margin. You would have to believe that Honda is Paying Stoner, Dovi, Dani a fair amount of coin, these combined wages would have to be considerable even against Rossi's figure.

Nuts · Jul 5, 2011

Talpa said:
Yes but how much are Honda Spending? I know the Initial reports from Motorcycle USA are fairly generous, but only one sponsors figure doesn't go to explaining the budget.... Kropo has hinted Honda's spend is more likely around $60-80 Million for 2011.

Read what Kropotkin said again.

I asked Lin Jarvis about those figures. He laughed in my face, and used several phrases containing the adjectives "utterly" and "completely". He wouldn't tell me what Yamaha's MotoGP budget was, but said that my guess of $50 million is much closer to the mark, but still a little on the high side.

How do you figure this? As we don't exactly know who's spending what, all I know is to field '4' factory bikes, and '2' satellite bikes Honda would certainly have to be considered the top spender, and by a margin. You would have to believe that Honda is Paying Stoner, Dovi, Dani a fair amount of coin, these combined wages would have to be considerable even against Rossi's figure.

Regardless of what Honda spend, based on what Kropo posted above, best estimates are that Yamaha's budget is approx. $ 50.0mil per year max.

Based on the figures known from 2009 (assuming there is no increase from the increased sponsorship from Marlboro), Duc budget is likely to be in the region of Euro 40.0mil (ie US$ 58.0mil).

So you can't keep going on with the poor Ducati, smallest team and smallest budget .........

What I am sayiong above is that Ducati probably has a similar budget in 2011 to Yamaha.

Bottom line is neither you or I know what the true situation is, but I know for sure that the figures quoted on the first page are .........

Talpa · Jul 5, 2011

Nuts said:
Regardless of what Honda spend, based on what Kropo posted above, best estimates are that Yamaha's budget is approx. $ 50.0mil per year max.

Based on the figures known from 2009 (assuming there is no increase from the increased sponsorship from Marlboro), Duc budget is likely to be in the region of Euro 40.0mil (ie US$ 58.0mil).

So you can't keep going on with the poor Ducati, smallest team and smallest budget .........

What I am sayiong above is that Ducati probably has a similar budget in 2011 to Yamaha.

Bottom line is neither you or I know what the true situation is, but I know for sure that the figures quoted on the first page are .........

The original figure was from Motorcycleusa.com, usually a reliable source, I thought it very worthy of discussion.

No-where am I saying Poor-Ducati, my point is that many are claiming Ducati are 'Moving heaven and earth' and conveniently aren't considering what they are up against with the input from their very well resourced competition, No 1 being Honda- whatever the figure........

Kropotkin · Jul 5, 2011

Talpa said:
The original figure was from Motorcycleusa.com, usually a reliable source, I thought it very worthy of discussion.

Motorcycleusa.com are usually not bad. But that figure was almost an order of magnitude off, which is a large error in anything except astrophysics.

I'm not surprised, as finding numbers out is very, very difficult. The sponsorship numbers I hear from different sources often differ widely, so reliable numbers are hard to find.

Keshav · Jul 5, 2011

Talpa said:
The original figure was from Motorcycleusa.com, usually a reliable source, I thought it very worthy of discussion.

No-where am I saying Poor-Ducati, my point is that many are claiming Ducati are 'Moving heaven and earth' and conveniently aren't considering what they are up against with the input from their very well resourced competition, No 1 being Honda- whatever the figure........

This was never to do with comparing Duc to Honda. I was always about a comparison between what their efforts cost pre-Rossi. It was never necessary to point out that Ducati are an underdog. That's glaringly obvious.

Pinky · Jul 5, 2011

$400 million. you dreaming mate. even pre GFC F1 the top F1 teams only spent that much.... i read william was around 250mliion, and mercedes and ferrari was around the 400million

i would say budget for motogp is < 50-100million

povol · Jul 6, 2011

Talpa said:
Yes but how much are Honda Spending? I know the Initial reports from Motorcycle USA are fairly generous, but only one sponsors figure doesn't go to explaining the budget.... Kropo has hinted Honda's spend is more likely around $60-80 Million for 2011.

How do you figure this? As we don't exactly know who's spending what, all I know is to field '4' factory bikes, and '2' satellite bikes Honda would certainly have to be considered the top spender, and by a margin. You would have to believe that Honda is Paying Stoner, Dovi, Dani a fair amount of coin, these combined wages would have to be considerable even against Rossi's figure.

I would venture a guess that those three riders combined salaries do not match Rossi's salary

Talpa · Jul 6, 2011

povol said:
I would venture a guess that those three riders combined salaries do not match Rossi's salary

I wasn't saying they would match but it would at least be considerablly close, even if Pedro/Stoner were on 2-3 mill each for the year, there's 4-6 mill.....

I don't think anyone is arguing that Rossi shouldn't be paid what he is, for no one in the field has come close to matching his success in the sport yet, not too mention merchandising and overall GP attedance numbers or TV audiences which are noticably enhanced by the presence of VR on track.........even mid-pack

Nuts · Jul 6, 2011

Talpa said:
I wasn't saying they would match but it would at least be considerablly close, even if Pedro/Stoner were on 2-3 mill each for the year, there's 4-6 mill.....

I don't think anyone is arguing that Rossi shouldn't be paid what he is, for no one in the field has come close to matching his success in the sport yet, not too mention merchandising and overall GP attedance numbers or TV audiences which are noticably enhanced by the presence of VR on track.........even mid-pack

I don't think Rossi should be paid what he is by Ducati - without any results.

If I was in charge of a race team, I would put the entire team, incl riders, engineers and mechanics, on a performance based package. Get paid a reasonable base income, and then get bonuses for wins or podiums and an end of year bonus depending on how high or low they finish.

That way everyone in the team is resoponsible for the outcome.

If the bike is .... and the rider underperforms - no bonuses.

Stoner was on this type of deal in 2007 (base salary Euro 1,000,000 + Euro 250,000 per win) and after racking up a few wins Ducati changed the contract in 2008.

If Rossi (or anyone else) is sufficiently confident in their ability to improve a bike, what is wrong with this type of package. Rossi bought with him JB and his entire team, so the cost to Ducati is not only the Euro 15,000,000 for VR - and I am sure they a paying JB a fair bit.

Talps, I think you are right !!!!!

I think MotoGP is ultimately enhanced by the presence of VR mid pack.

Search

Search

The $400 Million Dollar Question?

Kropotkin

Mick D

Attachments

BarryMachine

povol

chopperman

Austin

Gaz

michaelm

Andy Roo

chopperman

Nuts

Talpa

Nuts

Talpa

Kropotkin

Keshav

Pinky

povol

Talpa

Nuts

Similar threads

Recent Discussions