The $400 Million Dollar Question?

Talpa said:

Actually my attitude has changed at all in regards to Ducati, I still believe it was a big mistake for Rossi to move over to the red pit, they have been behind for a long time and the last two season have seriously highlight this. My point is that many are crapping on as usual about Ducati's big spend and it clearly doesn't translate even slightly to the big 2 Japanese and the dollars they invest.



As for the ........ that they didn't haven't spent much in the Past, and Stoner got nothing, well actually out of the the big three the 800 desmosedici has gone through more huge alterations than any of them! Including the carbon Frame, numerous front end re-builds and the 'Big bang' donk, all of which no doubt cost a lot, all spent without having signed one Valentino Rossi. As most informed opinions state, now, without Stoner winning the odd race and crashing the rest of time they finally realised they have to change, and change fast.......with the added weight of Rossi and the 9 titles on three different manufactures across 5 classes.



$425 Million thats the figure peps, read it and weep. Honda is the only manufacture moving heaven and earth to win the title........

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My attitude to ducati hasn't changed either, any success they have whoever is involved is against the odds.



At least honda for this year have finally spent $10 million or so of their enormous budget well by signifcantly upgrading their rider talent .

Link please Talps.......

Nuts said:

Seems your attitude towards Ducati has changed a little over the last 12 months Talps...... Why's that ??

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reading Talpa's progression of MGP thoughts is like watching one of those toy "bump-n-go" cars

Talpa said:

linky



http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/739/1...STM--Practical-Solutions-to-MotoGPs-Woes.aspx













and baz....once again http://www.powerslide.net/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif and don't read it then cockhead

always a pleasure

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WhyTF would I even bother reading the title for it!!! ? its obviously another of your wild goose chases aimed at cooking up another waste of time broth of Rossi's woes.



Fairytale and hocum!!.





I have two words for you Talp ........... "Bump" n "GO"

Talpa said:

Actually my attitude has changed at all in regards to Ducati, I still believe it was a big mistake for Rossi to move over to the red pit, they have been behind for a long time and the last two season have seriously highlight this. My point is that many are crapping on as usual about Ducati's big spend and it clearly doesn't translate even slightly to the big 2 Japanese and the dollars they invest.



As for the ........ that they didn't haven't spent much in the Past, and Stoner got nothing, well actually out of the the big three the 800 desmosedici has gone through more huge alterations than any of them! Including the carbon Frame, numerous front end re-builds and the 'Big bang' donk, all of which no doubt cost a lot, all spent without having signed one Valentino Rossi. As most informed opinions state, now, without Stoner winning the odd race and crashing the rest of time they finally realised they have to change, and change fast.......with the added weight of Rossi and the 9 titles on three different manufactures across 5 classes.



$425 Million thats the figure peps, read it and weep. Honda is the only manufacture moving heaven and earth to win the title........

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Nobody has criticized Duc for spending money, but rather for their hubris and the way they dragged their heels for so long as regards making useful changes. They weren't doing .... when Capi or Melandri were busting their humps on Ducs, and were ineffectual when Stoner was on board. They wasted the precious time of talented riders because they stubbornly valued originality over function. For too long they have pursued "innovation" at the expense of functionality. This is the same mentality that is holding back BMW in WSBK. If they would just put aside their pride and use the same electronics as everybody else, they would be on the podium every week.

The sums mentioned in those articles are about an order of magnitude out of wack. Honda's total global motorcycle sales in 2010 were $14 billion. Their 2010 income from their motorcycle division was $700 million. So to spend 3% of their total turnover, and well over half their profits on MotoGP is utter, utter ......... The "well-informed paddock gossip" is that HRC's MotoGP budget is probably between 10 and 20% of that figure.

Of course it probably add's nothing to this argument (and may even hasten the conclusion) that Valentino Rossi was just listed as 1 of the worlds top 10 earning sportspeople.



This is not a na-na-na you're worse statement.



All the factories have a budget and let's face it, Honda haven't won an 800 title and it disappears next year. We all know that with 4 factory riders out there they have stacked their odds pretty well, and Casey is their ace card.



Why is there an issue with it?



Ducati gambled on Rossi being able to ride the bike.



In 2007 Ducati won the championship on the lowest of budgets with a new rider, all Honda did really that made (is making) the difference was procure the rider to bring them the championship.



Simo, Dovi and Dani aren't setting the world on fire (although Simo has asked for a flamethrower to be fitted to the bike so he burn the one he doesn't crash into)



Another YAWN thread

Kropotkin said:

The sums mentioned in those articles are about an order of magnitude out of wack. Honda's total global motorcycle sales in 2010 were $14 billion. Their 2010 income from their motorcycle division was $700 million. So to spend 3% of their total turnover, and well over half their profits on MotoGP is utter, utter ......... The "well-informed paddock gossip" is that HRC's MotoGP budget is probably between 10 and 20% of that figure.

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Now that would sound a tad more realistic...



But sorry Mr Honda, until you bring out a decent looking sport touring bike again, my dollars are going elsewhere... I mean, really what were they thinking with the VFR1200? It's had a couple of really decent taps with the ugly stick!

I asked Lin Jarvis about those figures. He laughed in my face, and used several phrases containing the adjectives "utterly" and "completely". He wouldn't tell me what Yamaha's MotoGP budget was, but said that my guess of $50 million is much closer to the mark, but still a little on the high side.

Viper-7 said:

If put it one Honda and Yamaha are the two brands that are making MotoGP what it is, If either if them decided to pack their bags. It would put a huge dent in the pinnacle of Motorcycle racing. However if Ducati decided to leave it wouldn't have a big effect, Motogp has been without them before and did pretty well for itself. Heck if Suzuki decided to leave it would cause a bigger upset than Ducati leaving. Now that is saying something.

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Do you need an abacus or something??



17 bikes on grid less 6 Ducatis = 11 bikes at start



17 bikes on grid less 1 Suzuki = same big deal as when Kwakker left after repeated years of achieving nothing - like Suzi since KRJR rode it

Keshav said:

Nobody has criticized Duc for spending money, but rather for their hubris and the way they dragged their heels for so long as regards making useful changes. They weren't doing .... when Capi or Melandri were busting their humps on Ducs, and were ineffectual when Stoner was on board. They wasted the precious time of talented riders because they stubbornly valued originality over function. For too long they have pursued "innovation" at the expense of functionality. This is the same mentality that is holding back BMW in WSBK. If they would just put aside their pride and use the same electronics as everybody else, they would be on the podium every week.

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"Nobody has criticized Duc for spending money, " ImO not really the case - there has been a lot of noise about "moving heaven and earth" - "ALL the sponsor money Rossi has brought" +++++++++



I do completely agree with "Hubris and the same mentality that is holding back BMW in WSBK"

I have no doubt those figures quoted by Talpa are GROSSLY exaggerated. He has a propensity for believing in fairy tales as has been amply demonstrated in his previous postings.



This thread is just another attempt to deflect scrutiny from the real issue that is detracting from his enjoyment of MotoGP this year...the performance of Valentino Rossi on the Ducati in comparison to the results Honda are seeing with Casey Stoner on board and serves as a perfect example of his continuuing ploys to denigrate Stoner by any means possible because of his pathological hatred for the guy.



Most informed and resonable people see it exactly as described by Krop.....utter .........

475 million?



LOL



I'd be amazed if Honda spend 25% of that.



And anyway, if Ducati want to play at the big boys table, they should be prepared to have their ..... kicked unless they make the proper investment.

Kropotkin said:

I asked Lin Jarvis about those figures. He laughed in my face, and used several phrases containing the adjectives "utterly" and "completely". He wouldn't tell me what Yamaha's MotoGP budget was, but said that my guess of $50 million is much closer to the mark, but still a little on the high side.

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Nuff' said.

Kropotkin said:

The sums mentioned in those articles are about an order of magnitude out of wack. Honda's total global motorcycle sales in 2010 were $14 billion. Their 2010 income from their motorcycle division was $700 million. So to spend 3% of their total turnover, and well over half their profits on MotoGP is utter, utter ......... The "well-informed paddock gossip" is that HRC's MotoGP budget is probably between 10 and 20% of that figure.

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Krop, who do you think you are !



How dare you come in here and provide some levity with the 'well informed paddock gossip' of your own.



I do not know what to think and who to believe any more







IMO, who really cares anyway how much money each manufacturer spends as if the money is being spent on our chosen sport should we not be happy?











Gaz

Gaz said:

Krop, who do you think you are !



How dare you come in here and provide some levity with the 'well informed paddock gossip' of your own.



I do not know what to think and who to believe any more

Gaz

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I believe thats the "bump" bit in Talpa's little mission here.



I see he's back on the tyres for a new direction of "go" though ....

Talpa said:

linky



http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/739/1...STM--Practical-Solutions-to-MotoGPs-Woes.aspx













and baz....once again http://www.powerslide.net/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif and don't read it then cockhead

always a pleasure

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Honda sells 375 X's the number of bikes world wide as Ducati per year. Using those numbers as a barometer and the realistic figure of 50 miliion by Honda, Ducatis racing budget shouldbe a little over 133 thousand a year. Using percentage of sales, Ducati spends more than all the OEM combined

I would have thought it's all same same as far as Ducati doing nothing for years ( or the wrong things) regardless of whose arse was on the bike.



The fact that they had one rider who cared less about the prospect of hurting himself, and had the ability to ride through the problems for a win from time to time probably set them in the mindset that the bike only needed tweaks............and failing that, design a whole new, or massively changed bike on the grid for next season.



ie..........a whole new bunch of problems to wade through.





Go back to 87 through to 93/4 ( well....it's still bloody happening, isn't it !?) at Suzuki......seem familiar anyone ?



It's not a localised Ducati problem or mindset. Now that they have brought across the crew who turned that woeful Yamaha into something, and by their absence sent Honda wandering into the wastelands until this year.........how stupid would they look if they didn't do what was recommended/asked of them ??





How is Honda any different to Ducati ? They still haven't fixed the problems Pedrobot has had with the bike, Never listened to Hayden's complaints, Dovi would undoubtably have some things he's not happy about, and as for Elias............are they listening, do they care..........no.



Why ?



"cause now they have a rider who can ride around the minor ( in Honda's eyes) issues to get the things he want's out of racing. Problem solved for Honda, as it was for Ducati.



Sure....the Honda has undoubtably improved this year to make it easier for more than one person to ride, but then, right back through time............if a Honda was winning, you could expect less talented team matesto be well inside the top ten..............most people who rode one have extracted something out of it, making it a better, more rider friendly bike than the "only one bloke can ride it" Ducati.........but as for the mindset.........from observation it would appear they are all alike.



........'cept for Suzuki.............they sit in the corner and talk to themselves.



My only hope is that Ducati do not wander down the same dark path that Suzuki have .............or for as long.