Tardozzi: Stoner is the best rider in MotoGP

Masturbation???????

Rossi is one of the top athlete of the decade, no one can deny it, so why do we need more discussion.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jan 12 2010, 09:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossibopper fear is a powerful driver on forums around the world. Here we are up to 5 pages, crash.net is well over 300 posts on the same topic. The thread for Rossi's athlete of the decade topic only just made 2 pages. If the boppers don't watch out they may make Stoner the most bankable rider on the grid

Not only is Stoner the best rider in MotoGP it seems he creates the best headlines as well. Rossi is going to have to start another 'boy who cried wolf' rumour that NASA are after him to fly the next generation of spaceship to Mars to try and get the jump back on Stoner in the headlines.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 11 2010, 09:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If it were 2008, I'd definitely find some merit in that view. However, Stoner of 2009 didn't fold under the pressure like he did in 2008. He didn't make those mental mistakes are push too hard to break away from a pack.
Donington, Laguna Seca, Valencia where all places where he did tactical errors and they where all for the purpose to maintain his domination.
As for the folding, his illness took care of the championship fight so the real pressure never reached him this year. I'm not saying that he would have folded, it's just a possibility that were never confirmed this year. That is how ever not my main point here
No he didn't crash out in races that often but as he is pushing the limit all the time you can not count out the other incidents that heavily influenced his results.
Two of them can arguably be called rookie misstakes that simply should not have happened and the last a result of continued pushing. You can get lucky and escape a some but you can't go on pushing the limit all the time and get away with it. Stoner has so far assumed that he can do so. Self inflated ego or not he proved (again) last year that he can't get away with that.
He needs to calm down and maybe use a couple of more laps to get up to speed and he might loose som cred for not allways being the faster out of the block but his over all results would improve.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ptk50 @ Jan 12 2010, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Duuhh - 2007 ducati/ yamaha parity - you must have watched different races - the ducati blew off the yam on every available straight with around 10 to 12 kmh more topspeed and better acceleration. rossi worked his arse off in the twisties to have stoner blast by on the start finish or any other longish straight. 2007 marelli hadn't caught on that they are a fiat subsidiary - yeah the folks sponsoring yamaha. since then rossi & burgess have had to accept that if you can't beat the electro-control-duc they also need the marelli parts. yam plus electro tc with rossi vs the electro-duc with stoner in 2009/ 09 - the rest is history

Although its obvious that a straight line advantage is the easiest thing to see and measure sureley any motor racing fan can understand that it is not necessarily a defining factor. Yes Rossi was working hard in the twisties but its not as though Stoner was taking an easy ride, we've all seen him on that bike. We've also all seen fast bikes lose to more rideable alternatives, just look at this years 250cc title.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jan 12 2010, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>800cc are the biggest mistake in GP in 15 years!! Not too many are denying it, CS, Nicky, Colin, Spies, JL, the Manufacturers, the FANS! Most are welcoming the return of the 1000's.

I find the 800cc 'mistake' very amusing. When motogp went 4 stroke it was met with plenty of resistance due to the loss of 'proper race bikes' and the reduction in precision needed to get it right. The 990's offered an easier to digest form of entertainment with bikes that moved around and riders able to get away with more, it was more like a superbike and more visually stimulating. Then the 800's came along and we've got something far more in keeping with what the 500's were; a highly tuned, peaky, nimble, corner speed bike where precision is paramount and everyone is complaining that its boring. Fans were spoiled with the 990's and nobody seems interested in going back to how things were.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jan 12 2010, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I was not being entirely serious, but I don't see how you or anyone who has not ridden 2 bikes of different manufacture in race conditions can be sure about the straight line speed/acceleration vs rideability trade off between such bikes. I will concede that a straight line advantage is perhaps easier to employ tactically. I do however seem to recall a bike called the aprilia cube with an apparent very marked straight line advantage which did not win races let alone championships.

You guys are very keen on invoking history, justifiably in terms of valentino's overall stature in the sport which is far beyond dispute. However, large though rossi's great career looms in the history of premier class gp bike racing, his career does not encompass its entirety.

For instance, by my reckoning of the last 35 premier class rider's championships, 14 were won by riders on factory yamahas, 14 by riders on factory hondas, 6 by riders on suzukis (!) and one by a rider on a ducati. Apparently the lone winning ducati rider is the one who had an obvious and unfair advantage such that his championship can be disregarded. Go figure.

Good point, much needed perspective.

BIT O/T.
Tuesday, January 12th 2010, 12:39 GMT

Ducati's tester Vittoriano Guareschi said on Tuesday, however, that Suppo will try to lure Stoner into Honda.

"Livio Suppo has already told me that he'll try to take Stoner away from us," he told Gazzetta dello Sport.

"But I think that we can give him everything he wants: a fine bike and a team that trusts him blindfold. Casey knows that and I'm confident we'll keep him in the future too."

CAN Casey win the title with another manufacturer ? hmm
and if he was to move would tardozzi still be a fanboy.

the dream team Casey/Suppo/Tardozzi. ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Jan 12 2010, 02:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ah Talpa, just one post and you,re owned and boned. Haha.

PS> Its not a pretty look to be in the mudcrab camp!

Ah Talpa, Talpa, Talpa.......you are capable of much more, whereas I see the mudcrab as unsalvagable.(One more neurone and he would have a synapse) .

Don,t use the dark side of the force young paduan.


Austin, I,ve never seen Barry as that difficult to deal with. Mad as a cut snake maybe..............
Why not? It's all blunts, 40's, and ........

Well I would say, at least myself and austin got a gp thread poppin again. It makes me laugh at how some of you get because of something I said, most of you came with facts. But the true stoner cronies came with the insults, pow. Showing your mental capacity is way lower than cs's. And here is what I have to say to that. It's okay to not be that bright. You can still make it far in life barry & co, just look at the person you all root for. He is a few fries short of a happy meal and he has had a pretty good career! Com'on know I kid, I kid. I feel casey is the least in tune with all that it takes and all there is to being a professional motorcyclist. I call him stupid in a "bike smarts" kinda way not that I think he is actually a stupid person. Not the brightest crayon in the box, no doubt. But you over sensitive PMcSing fans make me laugh.

I copy right the rights to PMcS fans.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jan 12 2010, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossibopper fear is a powerful driver on forums around the world. Here we are up to 5 pages, crash.net is well over 300 posts on the same topic. The thread for Rossi's athlete of the decade topic only just made 2 pages. If the boppers don't watch out they may make Stoner the most bankable rider on the grid

Turning things upside down now, are we not?

I don't think the treads would be very long lived if you guys just admitted the obvious.
But no, you go on claiming the title winner 3 years ago, this years #4 must be the best. It's obvious for anyone to see, not.
Even the self proclaimed born again fan Jumkie (who does he think he fools? ) use number calculations worthy a lawyer to "prove" a point of how good Stoner is/was/could have been or what ever he tried to prove.

Making long treads are easy, it takes only one thing: trolling
Making very long treads are even easier: Lots of trolling.
Making extreamly long treads: Lots of Rossi trolling.

Only thing is that the strategy still fails if the point were to generate fuss around Stoner, because what originally was about Stoner are now 99% about Rossi.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 12 2010, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I find the 800cc 'mistake' very amusing. When motogp went 4 stroke it was met with plenty of resistance due to the loss of 'proper race bikes' and the reduction in precision needed to get it right. The 990's offered an easier to digest form of entertainment with bikes that moved around and riders able to get away with more, it was more like a superbike and more visually stimulating. Then the 800's came along and we've got something far more in keeping with what the 500's were; a highly tuned, peaky, nimble, corner speed bike where precision is paramount and everyone is complaining that its boring. Fans were spoiled with the 990's and nobody seems interested in going back to how things were.

I see your point and to some degree share your opinion allthough I still regard the 800's as boring compared to 500 and 990. The main reason for this is that despite their peaky engines the character has changed a lot due to electronics. For this reason alone it's not comparable with the 500's. Even if the last 500s were a lot more friendly (I supose we are the only two who remember a unison agreement among testriders and moto jounalists describing the 500's of 2001 as somthing that almost can be compared with a street bike)
The electronics (plus a lot more) enable the riders to ride at their own maximum or something very close with a minimum of risk compared with earlier configurations. They are not only avoiding crashes but they also avoid the smaller mistakes and allmost incidents. People used to say that you could expect about 100 near calls for each real crash That are still true on natinal and club level. In MotoGP this number has changed dramatically with the new bikes.
Nowdays highsides are more often than not done off the power into turns, like Stoner and Lorenzo at LS. That says a lot about how things have changed.
I hope that the change to 1000cc and possible limitations on electronic input can lessen the influence of the new electronics but until then I agree with those saying the 800 formula (including the electronics) were a misstake.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jan 12 2010, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't agree with this at all. I think all the riders love a scrap. I don't think any of them enjoy loosing one though.

Perhaps that is true, it's in these scraps though that Rossi IMO is better than Stoner, and every other rider on the grid for that matter. Stoner is the fastest man without a doubt when it comes to setting a lap time, in the race though, there are 15 other riders to deal with, one of which is GOAT. Experience is what its all about, that and pure skill. Stoner has the skill but doesnt have the experience yet.....same with Jorge etc etc. Thats why i think Rossi is still the man to beat.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jan 13 2010, 01:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why not? It's all blunts, 40's, and ........

Well I would say, at least myself and austin got a gp thread poppin again. It makes me laugh at how some of you get because of something I said, most of you came with facts. But the true stoner cronies came with the insults, pow. Showing your mental capacity is way lower than cs's. And here is what I have to say to that. It's okay to not be that bright. You can still make it far in life barry & co, just look at the person you all root for. He is a few fries short of a happy meal and he has had a pretty good career! Com'on know I kid, I kid. I feel casey is the least in tune with all that it takes and all there is to being a professional motorcyclist. I call him stupid in a "bike smarts" kinda way not that I think he is actually a stupid person. Not the brightest crayon in the box, no doubt. But you over sensitive PMcSing fans make me laugh.

I copy right the rights to PMcS fans.



What a sook, just because another high profile Stoner fan has come to the fore you bleat at me

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Jan 13 2010, 01:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>CAN Casey win the title with another manufacturer ? hmm
and if he was to move would tardozzi still be a fanboy.

Well Tardozzi is currently with BMW so he is free to say what he likes and he obviously did
Much to the chagrim of the Boppers

Were Tardozzi to go Honda I imagine he would say stuff like JB ( another Stoner fan ) does about Stoner, what else would you expect

man this threads got some legs! keep it up boys we only have 3 months to go before qatar!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Jan 13 2010, 02:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>man this threads got some legs! keep it up boys we only have 3 months to go before qatar!

oh no .... and given the last three Qatars ....Stoner is going to get a right sooking at then too

Jeez, this is what it takes to get some of our regular members to start posting in the off season? Another pissing match between VR + CS.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Jan 12 2010, 01:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Austin, I,ve never seen Barry as that difficult to deal with. Mad as a cut snake maybe..............
I've never encountered a cut snake but that sounds a bit more accurate.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jan 12 2010, 07:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I said I don't know of him abusing Jerry Burgess, the guy helping him to win the most his team manager.
Once again your wrong about the Ducati thing, VR has stated that the red bike was never an option.

2003-04 None of VR's team had a gun to their head when they left Honda, why leave if you know you can win with the next rider who comes long cause your in the best team with the best bike, they had Nicky and then they got Max the next year.......Hmmmmm I think Jerry might know a little more about rider talent than you!!!

So Rossi was the one responsible for Michelin leaving Motogp.....did he also help with the Moon landing? I think he also might know about Roswell too........

800cc are the biggest mistake in GP in 15 years!! Not too many are denying it, CS, Nicky, Colin, Spies, JL, the Manufacturers, the FANS! Most are welcoming the return of the 1000's. Your Golden goose theory is nothing but that, and like so many here you talk through your ... with your hatred of VR seeping through the keyboard like diarrhea through a G-String!
Don't give me the whole "Rossi said it was never an option" garbage. He said it was an interesting idea on the BBC. It most definitely is an option. It's only that after that quote was made a fuss of that Rossi retracted the statement and said it was misinterpreted. Ducati is a very real option and if Yamaha gamble with him, he'll leave. That being said, I don't foresee Yamaha taking that gamble and Rossi will stay where he is.

During Hayden's rookie season, JB had mentioned how he was eager to work with Hayden once Rossi had retired. This of course assumed that Rossi would never leave Honda. I don't think it was the emptiness at Honda after Rossi that lured his crew to join him, it was a new opportunity and the chance to continue working with someone they enjoy. No knock to anyone. Had I worked in what has been described as a very family-like garage, I'd want to continue to work in that environment.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 12 2010, 08:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Donington, Laguna Seca, Valencia where all places where he did tactical errors and they where all for the purpose to maintain his domination.
As for the folding, his illness took care of the championship fight so the real pressure never reached him this year. I'm not saying that he would have folded, it's just a possibility that were never confirmed this year. That is how ever not my main point here
No he didn't crash out in races that often but as he is pushing the limit all the time you can not count out the other incidents that heavily influenced his results.
Two of them can arguably be called rookie misstakes that simply should not have happened and the last a result of continued pushing. You can get lucky and escape a some but you can't go on pushing the limit all the time and get away with it. Stoner has so far assumed that he can do so. Self inflated ego or not he proved (again) last year that he can't get away with that.
He needs to calm down and maybe use a couple of more laps to get up to speed and he might loose som cred for not allways being the faster out of the block but his over all results would improve.
As far as Donny, Stoner said that he didn't have the fitness to have a go with Rossi and Lorenzo and Pedrosa in the dry. He needed to gamble if he was going to get a result and the gamble didn't pay off.

And with Valencia, like I said earlier, it's not as if he's never used this strategy before and it's not as if Valencia was his first ever cold race. I agree that it's taking a larger risk than necessary, but it's something he's grown accustomed to and has proven successful in the past. I don't think it's the best way to go about it, but it's worked for him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 12 2010, 09:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I see your point and to some degree share your opinion allthough I still regard the 800's as boring compared to 500 and 990. The main reason for this is that despite their peaky engines the character has changed a lot due to electronics. For this reason alone it's not comparable with the 500's. Even if the last 500s were a lot more friendly (I supose we are the only two who remember a unison agreement among testriders and moto jounalists describing the 500's of 2001 as somthing that almost can be compared with a street bike)
The electronics (plus a lot more) enable the riders to ride at their own maximum or something very close with a minimum of risk compared with earlier configurations. They are not only avoiding crashes but they also avoid the smaller mistakes and allmost incidents. People used to say that you could expect about 100 near calls for each real crash That are still true on natinal and club level. In MotoGP this number has changed dramatically with the new bikes.
Nowdays highsides are more often than not done off the power into turns, like Stoner and Lorenzo at LS. That says a lot about how things have changed.
I hope that the change to 1000cc and possible limitations on electronic input can lessen the influence of the new electronics but until then I agree with those saying the 800 formula (including the electronics) were a misstake.
Agreed.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 12 2010, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As far as Donny, Stoner said that he didn't have the fitness to have a go with Rossi and Lorenzo and Pedrosa in the dry. He needed to gamble if he was going to get a result and the gamble didn't pay off.

And with Valencia, like I said earlier, it's not as if he's never used this strategy before and it's not as if Valencia was his first ever cold race. I agree that it's taking a larger risk than necessary, but it's something he's grown accustomed to and has proven successful in the past. I don't think it's the best way to go about it, but it's worked for him.

Austin, I don't see why you need to defend Stoner here.
Stoner had the fitness to finish near podium and with difficult weather he could just as easily ended on top, you don't need rain tires to do that. To me it looked like loose loose situation except for the odds of a lottery win that the rain should start right at the start time. So many current and ex racers has commented on this and hardly anyone in a positive way. It's just not sound strategy.

Of course it worked before, so it did for a friend of mine, never the less they both eventually crashed out on a warm up lap as hundreds of others have done. That incident was not about that particular track on that cold day. It's risky business any day of the year, and his luck finally ran out. Not that Stoner has been extremely lucky in general put at some points he has been pushing his luck very hard and it starts hitting him. Again, "Everyone" will tell you it's not a smart strategy. Not to mention how easy it is to .... with someones head when they rely on strategies like that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 12 2010, 03:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You're forgetting one.


You'r right. I forgot to mention Hayden.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jan 12 2010, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't agree with this at all. I think all the riders love a scrap. I don't think any of them enjoy loosing one though.
Actually, Dani will avoid one if he can. This was not the case when he was a 125 and 250cc rider, and he used to toy with the pack in a distinctly 'Rossiesque' fashion. In Moto GP, he lost his spunk, (up Alberto's arse), and if he can, he'd rather race the circuit than his rivals, and will always favour making a break. This last season, on a great many occasions, he was more up for it - bless him, but as of yet - he's clearly 'punching above his weight'

[quote name='Tom' date='Jan 12 2010, 10:23 AM' post='222744']
Although its obvious that a straight line advantage is the easiest thing to see and measure sureley any motor racing fan can understand that it is not necessarily a defining factor. Yes Rossi was working hard in the twisties but its not as though Stoner was taking an easy ride, we've all seen him on that bike. We've also all seen fast bikes lose to more rideable alternatives, just look at this years 250cc title.



I never claimed that straight line speed was the defining factor - More to the point - the 2007 Duc was carrying more gyroscope magic than any other bike, which allowed Stoner to prevent Rossi from building a clear lead (with a lot less marelli magic) in the twisties and then be able to blast past him on the straight with an undeniably higher top speed. The higher top speed was the critical decisive factor, which when combined with the lead Ducati had in electronics that contributed to Stoner's success.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 11 2010, 02:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ask a Shwantz fan
I made a new years resolution to be nice to the Rossi boppers, but I have decided to extend my goodwill to include idiots. You get a pass.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ptk50 @ Jan 13 2010, 08:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I never claimed that straight line speed was the defining factor - More to the point - the 2007 Duc was carrying more gyroscope magic than any other bike, which allowed Stoner to prevent Rossi from building a clear lead (with a lot less marelli magic) in the twisties and then be able to blast past him on the straight with an undeniably higher top speed. The higher top speed was the critical decisive factor, which when combined with the lead Ducati had in electronics that contributed to Stoner's success.

Gee haven't I seen this type of hocus somewhere before ?

How do you explain that Rossi ran the same electronics, and Capi same electronics same bike same tyres same oils same fuel etc. etc. etc.?