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Suppo on Valencia 2015!

MadMax said:
I'm not sure. I haven't watched enough races with him in it.

I don't get to watch them all.

From what I've seen it doesn't seem so.

Don't get me wrong, I'm always rooting for Marc. Just trying to call a spade a spade, as I see it. :)
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I think your argument is valid. Its a matter of opinion for sure. If Marc causes a crash I'm sure it will come back up but I'll stand by his style being aggressive but clean.
 
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Marc has gotten better since 2015. He learned you can't win titles battling for positions that you have to ride at 11/10ths for since you will crash out doing so. He'll still race hard for positions as seen throughout 2016 and 2017 though so it's not as if he suddenly stopped racing hard. As long as he rides clean it's not a big deal. Austria was too dicey for my liking personally. Just think, if he lost the bike trying to make that impossible overtake, he might not have won the title this year. 2018 will be interesting to see how he handles himself as he has a lot of potential challengers in the wings (Dovi, Zarco, Vinales if M1 is improved, Iannone if Suzuki is improved).
 
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I want the entirety of the 2018 season to be Marquez, Zarco and Iannone on the front row.

No matter what happens at the end of the races, the first laps would be epic.
 
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synn said:
I want the entirety of the 2018 season to be Marquez, Zarco and Iannone on the front row.

No matter what happens at the end of the races, the first laps would be epic.
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By the 5th race of the season it would be boring, we need more mixers than 3.
 
RCV600RR said:
Marquez, who had the inside line, ran off the track too - so Rossi sitting on his outside really had no choice.

It's a risky move to cut the track at that speed.
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Oh I know that it's just that win should not have stood.
 
AntG said:
Oh I know that it's just that win should not have stood.
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I would agree with you if he exited the track due to his own mistake. However, if Marquez left him with no-where to go but off the track, I don't think there's a credible case to strip him of the win.

If anything, MM should have be penalized for trying an impossible move (that, let's not forget, took MM off the track too!).
 
He left the track because he had to slow down to make the next corner. Marquez had set homself up a better line to overtake rossi and the only way for rossi to win was to cheat. FIM and Dorna should have penalised rossi but they are crap so they didnt.

So ..... some time latet Zarco is about to overtake rossi ..... what does rossi know how to avoid that? Just cheat again ... cos Dorna have ok'd it.
 
BarryMachine said:
He left the track because he had to slow down to make the next corner. Marquez had set homself up a better line to overtake rossi and the only way for rossi to win was to cheat. FIM and Dorna should have penalised rossi but they are crap so they didnt.

So ..... some time latet Zarco is about to overtake rossi ..... what does rossi know how to avoid that? Just cheat again ... cos Dorna have ok'd it.
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I would agree if he could make the next corner, but I think it was impossible to make the next corner. Rossi was on the outside, and Marquez himself ran off the track limits (after snatching the inside line).

He couldn't slow down any further on corner entry to the first corner because he was already trailbraking on the limit, and the pass happened right at the apex. You can't give much more braking force at that part of the corner without crashing. I'm not sure if you've done much racing, but a rider would need to slow for the first corner and make the apex for the first corner to make the second - especially at that pace.
 
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RCV600RR said:
I would agree if he could make the next corner, but I think it was impossible to make the next corner. Rossi was on the outside, and Marquez himself ran off the track limits (after snatching the inside line).

He couldn't slow down any further on corner entry to the first corner because he was already trailbraking on the limit, and the pass happened right at the apex. You can't give much more braking force at that part of the corner without crashing. I'm not sure if you've done much racing, but a rider would need to slow for the first corner and make the apex for the first corner to make the second - especially at that pace.
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I am with you on this. Barry might well be a better judge than I am, but I thought at the time watching live even going for MM over Rossi because that result would have helped Jorge's title chances that there was no way MM was making that corner on a racing line whatever his future intentions. I guess whether Rossi would have made the corner himself is another question which I didn't consider and haven't really considered
 
michaelm said:
I am with you on this. Barry might well be a better judge than I am, but I thought at the time watching live even going for MM over Rossi because that result would have helped Jorge's title chances that there was no way MM was making that corner on a racing line whatever his future intentions. I guess whether Rossi would have made the corner himself is another question which I didn't consider and haven't really considered
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Rossi wasn't hot going into the chicane and he was able to hit the apex just prior to Marquez hitting him. There's nothing that suggest that Rossi wouldn't have been able to navigate the chicane. Marquez hit Rossi hard enough that Rossi's front tire appeared to momentarily tuck. Rossi had two choices, stand his bike up and brake hard prior to going into the gravel, or stand his bike up and attempt to accelerate through the gravel.

I don't blame Marquez for his wild attempt to pass Rossi going into the chicane, that's what expected of him. That said, he screwed up, was too hot, and made contact with another rider... then in parc ferme instead of owning his mistake(s), he bitched about Rossi cutting the corner even though he screwed up enough that he couldn't stay on track either.
 
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moto vudu said:
Rossi wasn't hot going into the chicane and he was able to hit the apex just prior to Marquez hitting him. There's nothing that suggest that Rossi wouldn't have been able to navigate the chicane. Marquez hit Rossi hard enough that Rossi's front tire appeared to momentarily tuck. Rossi had two choices, stand his bike up and brake hard prior to going into the gravel, or stand his bike up and attempt to accelerate through the gravel.

I don't blame Marquez for his wild attempt to pass Rossi going into the chicane, that's what expected of him. That said, he screwed up, was too hot, and made contact with another rider... then in parc ferme instead of owning his mistake(s), he bitched about Rossi cutting the corner even though he screwed up enough that he couldn't stay on track either.
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God you are full of ..... Marquez stayed well on track.
 
moto vudu said:
Marquez did not stay within the track limits.

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Thats not as bad as what Rossi did to Sete at Jerez. The big difference is the track design. Also I don't think Marc put a hole in Rossi's calf with his foot peg. If that was considered a fair move then Marcs should have too. Meaning Rossi should have been penalized for cutting the track just like he was in Austin vs Zarco.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
Thats not as bad as what Rossi did to Sete at Jerez. The big difference is the track design. Also I don't think Marc put a hole in Rossi's calf with his foot peg. If that was considered a fair move then Marcs should have too. Meaning Rossi should have been penalized for cutting the track just like he was in Austin vs Zarco.
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Rossi was only penalized in Austin because he gained time on Marquez after Zarco's bad pass attempt forced him off track (the pentaly wasn't to make things even with Zarco). Assen 2015 is different because Marquez forced Rossi off-track, so the rider he gained an advantage over was the same one who caused the incident.
 
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moto vudu said:
Rossi's was only penalized in Austin because he gained time on Marquez after Zarco's bad pass attempt forced him off track (the pentaly wasn't to make things even with Zarco). Assen 2015 is different because Marquez forced Rossi off-track, so the rider he gained an advantage over was the same one who caused the incident.
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But he didn't cause Rossi to run cut the corner, Rossi made that choice on his own. Marquez move was hard but Rossi didn't have to make the choice he made.n Marc cleanly pulled up beside Rossi into the start of that chicane because Rossi chose not to take a defensive line. That piece of track Rossi wanted no longer belonged to him so he cut the corner. You put yourself in that position in the final corner of the final lap than the consequence is on you.
 
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MdubSTYLIE said:
But he didn't cause Rossi to run cut the corner, Rossi made that choice on his own. Marquez move was hard but Rossi didn't have to make the choice he made.
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Marquez made it an easy choice because there was no where else for Rossi to go. Rossi was on the proper line to negotiate the chicane at race pace. Marquez forced him off line onto a wide trajectory that led off track. Rossi's choices were to go off track while braking or go off track while accelerating and hoping to make it through the gravel. Either way, Marquez forced him off the track which is exactly why Rossi received no penalty.

Rossi was in the lead going into the chicane, he could take any line he wanted. Marquez knew he needed to get in front of Rossi before the apex to "take the line" from Rossi, but he failed.
 
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moto vudu said:
Marquez made it an easy choice because there was no where else for Rossi to go. Rossi was on the proper line to negotiate the chicane at race pace. Marquez forced him off line onto a wide trajectory that led off track. Rossi's choices were to go off track while braking or go off track while accelerating and hoping to make it through the gravel. Either way, Marquez forced him off the track which is exactly why Rossi received no penalty.

Rossi was in the lead going into the chicane, he could take any line he wanted. Marquez knew he needed to get in front of Rossi before the apex to "take the line" from Rossi, but he failed.
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Rossi left the door open. Sure Rossi was on the best line for a fast lap but not the best line for a last lap fight. Fact is Marc was far enough to take the inside line away from Rossi which means Rossi cannot turn into that spot, thats his fault. Cutting that corner should have gotten him a time penalty. Rossi gave up on that corner the moment he realized he could go straight. Had that been a proper corner I have no doubt he would have fought for track position.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
Rossi left the door open. Sure Rossi was on the best line for a fast lap but not the best line for a last lap fight. Fact is Marc was far enough to take the inside line away from Rossi which means Rossi cannot turn into that spot, thats his fault. Cutting that corner should have gotten him a time penalty. Rossi gave up on that corner the moment he realized he could go straight. Had that been a proper corner I have no doubt he would have fought for track position.
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Bro the helicopter view shows exactly what happened. Going into the chicane Rossi swung wide to get on the fastest line to negotiate the chicane. The act of moving to the outside of the track looks like Rossi is leaving the door open for Marquez, but he's really not. Marquez is attempting to out-brake Rossi which means he's going to have to carry more entry speed AND negotiate the corner using the tighter inside line! Again, Marquez was trying to turn much tighter than Rossi while carrying a lot more speed... it just wasn't going to happen. Rossi cut back toward the apex because that's the exact line he needed to be on and Marquez was not in front of him so he still had line preference. Marquez made contact with Rossi slightly after the apex and if Rossi didn't stand his bike up both of them would've likely ended up in the gravel.

Unless Marquez got his front tire in front of Rossi's (he clearly didn't), he never got far enough to take any line from Rossi. He tried, he failed, he had to accept his 2nd place. If any rider was going to receive a penalty, he would've had to be Marquez.
 
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