Stoner's mental weakness

FACTORY · Jun 9, 2010

Tom said:
Not only that, but motogp technology is used to market less sporty bikes in the range, think of fat old men who love motogp but want to ride a VFR800. The brochure will have pictures of Repsol Hondas and mention how the bikes features are motogp derived.

Agreed

The Cross Plane crank for the current R1 came from the 990cc GP bike......and it seems to be a hit on the street and WSBK/AMA riders are reaping the benefits!! I am pretty sure the variable velocity stacks were used in GP racing and then made it's way onto production bikes.

These things are thought of and used in prototype racing......once it is refined enough, it will make it's way to prduction based bikes to be used in other race series and to let the public benefit rom the techology/

inam22 · Jun 9, 2010

Double......

inam22 · Jun 9, 2010

TP70 said:
This is a chicken/egg scenario if you ask me. Would Ducati be worrying about a post Stoner era if they didn't worry about a post Stoner era. When Ducati started offering money around last year to Lorenzo etc they push away of Stoner began and the continuous focus on trying to help other people ride the bike rather than just supporting Stoner looks to have completed the process. By worrying about losing Stoner they lost him. As Rossi has said you can not have 2 top riders on the one team so why did Ducati need to worry about the other bikes when they had their number 1 winning somewhat regularly. I say karma is a ..... and I hope that they end up with a full compliment of mid packers when Stoner is gone.

Casey was more than happy with the development of Ducati during the testing season and he himself admitted that they are going in the right direction.I don't think

its fair to put all the blame on Ducati now.

BarryMachine · Jun 9, 2010

inam said:
Casey was more than happy with the development of Ducati during the testing season and he himself admitted that they are going in the right direction.I don't think

its fair to put all the blame on Ducati now.

I think you missed his point ........ read again

And also, I gather you are saying the new Duc. looks/performs "as good" or "the same machine" as the old? When you guys were blaming Yam for Rossi's woes there had bee far less change in the bike

inam22 · Jun 9, 2010

BarryMachine said:
I think you missed his point ........ read again

And also, I gather you are saying the new Duc. looks/performs "as good" or "the same machine" as the old? When you guys were blaming Yam for Rossi's woes there had bee far less change in the bike

Read again smartASS, its very clear and simple what i am trying to say. I think you missed my point by miles

Mick D · Jun 9, 2010

Tom said:
...think of fat old men who love motogp but want to ride a VFR800.

I've had a VFR of one sort or another since '84... I was neither old nor fat at the time... I'm still not fat but could qualify for old... My '99 and '02 VFRs would regularly get ridden three hours to the track, ridden around squids on their 600s/1000 who would trailer their bikes there on the track then ridden home three hours at the end of the day... Don't dump on the Viffer if you haven't sampled...

TP70 · Jun 9, 2010

inam said:
Casey was more than happy with the development of Ducati during the testing season and he himself admitted that they are going in the right direction.I don't think

its fair to put all the blame on Ducati now.

I remember testing before the start of the 2007 season when Rossi and Edwards were saying the Yamaha was perfect and they were excited about its prospects. How did that go for them!

Stoner is a professional and does not bag his team or employer in public so we would never know his true thoughts about the direction of the development. Or do we with his rumoured signing with Honda. Either way I think Stoner would be pushing for a bike that is less of a wild incarnate of a MotoGP bike that was previous incarnations of the GP7/8/9 but I don' t think his desire includes developing out its ability to win.

FACTORY · Jun 9, 2010

TP70 said:
I remember testing before the start of the 2007 season when Rossi and Edwards were saying the Yamaha was perfect and they were excited about its prospects. How did that go for them!

Stoner is a professional and does not bag his team or employer in public so we would never know his true thoughts about the direction of the development. Or do we with his rumoured signing with Honda. Either way I think Stoner would be pushing for a bike that is less of a wild incarnate of a MotoGP bike that was previous incarnations of the GP7/8/9 but I don' t think his desire includes developing out its ability to win.

Rossi and Edwards were excited because their 800cc was faster than their 990cc bike so I am sure they thought they had a good thing going knowing they could squeeze out a bit more come race day.....and they did not know that the Ducati was going to rip up the tracks like it did when the races got underway. Plus Rossi and edwards were not wadding up bikes left and right.

That said....Stoner was happy with the GP10 during testing and to my knowledge he has not bashed Ducati like Pedrosa has been doing.

inam22 · Jun 10, 2010

TP70 said:
I remember testing before the start of the 2007 season when Rossi and Edwards were saying the Yamaha was perfect and they were excited about its prospects. How did that go for them!

Stoner is a professional and does not bag his team or employer in public so we would never know his true thoughts about the direction of the development. Or do we with his rumoured signing with Honda. Either way I think Stoner would be pushing for a bike that is less of a wild incarnate of a MotoGP bike that was previous incarnations of the GP7/8/9 but I don' t think his desire includes developing out its ability to win.

Comparing 2007 with 2010 is just Epic fail, there was no data what so ever to compare with in 07 and it was fresh start for everyone so nobody knew the limits of the bikes but now in 2010 there is plently of data to compare with so you can tell weather you are going in right or wrong direction with the bike development.

Tom · Jun 10, 2010

Mick D said:
I've had a VFR of one sort or another since '84... I was neither old nor fat at the time... I'm still not fat but could qualify for old... My '99 and '02 VFRs would regularly get ridden three hours to the track, ridden around squids on their 600s/1000 who would trailer their bikes there on the track then ridden home three hours at the end of the day... Don't dump on the Viffer if you haven't sampled...

I like VFR's, it wasn't my intention to dump on them, just to show that motogp marketting and technology is useful beyond racerep sports bikes

Gaz · Jun 10, 2010

FACTORY said:
then why has Yamaha run a TV commercial for over a year with Rossi and the new R1.....or Ducati putting out a Hayden edition 848, Yamaha had a Rossi rep R6 and a Fiat rep R1?? I would think that there is a market of people that watch MotoGP and will buy the products their races and teams endorse.....Monster and Red Bull are quite popular. The last WSBK rep that I remember is the Bayliss 1098R rep.

The answer is easy - rider replicas, not race machine replicas - and yes, there is a difference.

How many manufacturers sell replicas of their GP Machines not linked to a rider - none!

In the examples you list they are Rossi replica, Hayden replica etc, whereas the win on Sunday, sell Monday philosphy works on bikes not riders.

Gaz

Tom · Jun 10, 2010

Gaz said:
The answer is easy - rider replicas, not race machine replicas - and yes, there is a difference.

How many manufacturers sell replicas of their GP Machines not linked to a rider - none!

Honda have been selling nameless Repsol bikes for years

TP70 · Jun 10, 2010

inam said:
Comparing 2007 with 2010 is just Epic fail, there was no data what so ever to compare with in 07 and it was fresh start for everyone so nobody knew the limits of the bikes but now in 2010 there is plently of data to compare with so you can tell weather you are going in right or wrong direction with the bike development.

Ok, so you are saying that Rossi doesn't know if a bike is good or not. So you are saying that Rossi, the greatest bike developer to ever throw a leg over a motorcycle was just stabbing in the dark and hoping for the best when he and Yamaha were developing their 800. Glad we have got that clear.

Don't worry about responding as they are rhetorical questions.

People who understand the sport Inam, understand that testing is just that testing and often testing does not translate to racing. In 2007 pre season testing, Rossi and Edwards thought they had a great bike that was enough to beat their competitors. When racing started they realised that someone else was exploiting the package better then they were. No big deal. Same applies to 2010. Ducati, in testing felt that they had made a winning change to their package. In racing, so far, it has not proved to be the case.

Inam you should change your name to LAME because it would better reflect your argument!

Mick D · Jun 10, 2010

TP70 said:
Ok, so you are saying that Rossi doesn't know if a bike is good or not.

As a matter of fact, as it relates to the '07 season exclusively, I would say, "yes". Performance benchmarking during preseason testing can only tell you so much... No one really knew exactly how good their bikes were compared to others until they faced off in anger through the first 5 - 6 rounds. There were as many surprises for the riders in '07 as there were for the fans...

inam22 · Jun 10, 2010

TP70 said:
Ok, so you are saying that Rossi doesn't know if a bike is good or not. So you are saying that Rossi, the greatest bike developer to ever throw a leg over a motorcycle was just stabbing in the dark and hoping for the best when he and Yamaha were developing their 800. Glad we have got that clear.

Don't worry about responding as they are rhetorical questions.

People who understand the sport Inam, understand that testing is just that testing and often testing does not translate to racing. In 2007 pre season testing, Rossi and Edwards thought they had a great bike that was enough to beat their competitors. When racing started they realised that someone else was exploiting the package better then they were. No big deal. Same applies to 2010. Ducati, in testing felt that they had made a winning change to their package. In racing, so far, it has not proved to be the case.

Inam you should change your name to LAME because it would better reflect your argument!

TP70, you should change your name to red-eyed Casey .... gobbler who just want to put all the blame to Ducati for the developlement of the bike and don't want to admit that it was their riders input that have taken Ducati in that direction.

As far as 2007 concerned although situation was completely different back then i still believe that Rossi and Colin have to take some blame for poor performance of the bike in that season along side Michelins as well.

TP70 · Jun 10, 2010

Mick D said:
As a matter of fact, as it relates to the '07 season exclusively, I would say, "yes". Performance benchmarking during preseason testing can only tell you so much... No one really knew exactly how good their bikes were compared to others until they faced off in anger through the first 5 - 6 rounds. There were as many surprises for the riders in '07 as there were for the fans...

So in 2007 and only 2007 Rossi didn't know what a good bike felt like? This is a revelation.

If you read all my post in regards to testing verse racing I think you will find I said the same thing except that I don't think that Rossi did not know what he was riding. Just because Rossi then and Stoner now say their bikes are great does not mean they are. Only Pedrosa and Melandri publicly comment on how crap the bikes are they are given. For everyone else it is PR talk.

inam said:
TP70, you should change your name to red-eyed Casey .... gobbler who just want to put all the blame to Ducati for the developlement of the bike and don't want to admit that it was their riders input that have taken Ducati in that direction.

As far as 2007 concerned although situation was completely different back then i still believe that Rossi and Colin have to take some blame for poor performance of the bike in that season along side Michelins as well.

I agree that it is Ducati's riders who have contributed to development but have the slow ones had too much say?

inam22 · Jun 10, 2010

TP70 said:
I agree that it is Ducati's riders who have contributed to development but have the slow ones had too much say?

Thats the result, at least we agree on something. I am not having a go at Casey by any means actually i think Casey's attitude so far has been very positive towards

bike and Ducati but for some reason his fans are too critical of Ducati.

BarryMachine · Jun 10, 2010

inam said:
Thats the result, at least we agree on something. I am not having a go at Casey by any means actually i think Casey's attitude so far has been very positive towards

bike and Ducati but for some reason his fans are too critical of Ducati.

Bu its pretty obvious that the changes to the Duc. have altered Stoners performance on the ducati. Do a little "stat.s analysis" for yourself for once instead of just whinging and sooking.

You really come out with the most inane drivel

kieran · Jun 10, 2010

BarryMachine said:
You really come out with the most inane drivel

There are pages and pages of inane drivel on this site. Just look at this thread or any thread with Stoners name in it. Thats just the start. Then you get to ones with what motoGP will be like without Rossi if you really want to see some ........ comments.

inam22 · Jun 10, 2010

BarryMachine said:
Bu its pretty obvious that the changes to the Duc. have altered Stoners performance on the ducati. Do a little "stat.s analysis" for yourself for once instead of just whinging and sooking.

You really come out with the most inane drivel

You need to pay bit more attention to the season so far and you will realise that Ducati's performance is not so bad, let start again from first race in Qatar : Stoner was half a seconed quicker compare to every one, did the fastest lap of the race and then bin it, not Ducati's fault is it?

2nd race in Jerez, every body knows that track doesn't suite Ducati.

3rd race in Le mans, very fast all weekend but again bin it on race day, see his interview after the race where he thought if he kept it on two wheels he had the chance to fight for victory.

4rd race in Mugello, he tested 2009 Ohlins forks, which abviously going the take some time to make all the adjustments but then again on race day Casey and Ducati went with soft rear tyre in 30c with the track temprature in the region of 50c.

What i am trying to say is that bike is still good its down to rider confidence and getting the setup right and in both department they are struggling at the moment.

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