Stoner to HRC in 2011

mylexicon said:

Stoner loathes the corporate side of MotoGP so it seems a bit strange that Suppo would look to Stoner as his #1 option. It's a bit difficult to get sponsors when the team's #1 rider despises PR work.

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HRC could go old school and have a Stoner alongside the best Spaniard they can get for PR duties at home, i'm sure they could get Bautista or something and he seems to like smiling and waving more than winning!

VHMP01 said:

Just as gossip, but it is being said at Spanish Forums that HRC divorces Repsol to get Elf as mayor Sponsor!!!

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I saw something about this last year, apparently they were interested in linking up with Leon Haslam as Elf have history with the family, Dorna want a Brit on the grid and with Leon doing what he is at the moment this could work out well for him, even if its a satellite ride

Oniker said:

Repsol leaves, enter RED BULL.



Red Bull Honda sounds good

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Didn't redbull back out of sponsoring Ducati because they want too much control of the team, like in F1? I doubt they'd get this from HRC and i suspect they'll be thinking of getting a moto2 chassis sorted for Marquez in a couple of years time, then go from there.

is200 said:

The current change in bike attitude and the apparent increase in its rideability will probably go against Casey in a negotiation point of view. Previously he could clearly say that no one else can ride this like me, now Hayden has shown its a lot tamer,

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Agree, this will work doubly so as riders trying to break through to factory rides will now consider Ducati a genuine way to the top rather than a career killer. if they can't get Ross they might play for Simoncelli? Or just go one American out and one in, who knows

TP70 said:

Rossi going to Ducati is a pipe dream. It will never happen. One simple reason - Burgess won't switch teams again and Rossi won't race with out him and no way would Rossi leave Burgess behind for another rider to take advantage of.

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Perhaps if Rossi feels he has one last thing to prove he might leave Burgess, if he's assured JB will retire rather than engineering one of his competitors. I doubt Rossi would want Stoner and JB teamed up would he though?



I think the Lorenzo situation is interesting, if he has to share the team with another big name, i think he'll want it to be Rossi. If he's getting undisputed number 1 status, i think he'd go to HRC or ducati. I'm much less sure about how Rossi will react if Lorenzo is on top mid season, would he stay and fight for it or move on?



Also, all this talk of Spies demanding factory rides and moving up the pecking order is fine, but its premature to do so without mentioning Simoncelli, i think Marco will give Ben a run for rookie of the year, although i suspect Ben will take it in the end. But Simoncelli will be looking to move up the grid asap i'm sure. It's a Dangerous year for Hayden and Dovi as the big 4 are likely to stay on the 6 bikes that can win titles, leaving ALL the other riders to fight for 2 jobs.

TP70 said:

I have this gut feeling that Pedrosa is going to end up on the Suzuki with a huge commitment from them to deliver a bike. I also think you will see Puig step in as team boss and Denning will disappear.

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If so the entire factory effort would have to reorientate and align itself to to a Spanish concern. As Managing director of Crescent, Denning is hardly likely to be standing down. Scwhantz and Aspar were both linked to satellite efforts recently, but the factory effort is pretty entrenched in Bournemouth. Suzuki have a very strong link and relationship with Crescent and Imperial tobacco. It is conceivable however that Suzuki could be allured by the prospect of a lucrative new sponsorship deal, and who knows what Uncle Alberto could broker?



To be fair, given the unlikely scenario of a raft of sponsorship and an unlimited budget in Japan, Suzuki are never going to deliver a competitive prototype machine to rival HRC in the forseeable future; and even if they did Dani would still complain.

Stoner may actually go to Honda, after all.

How can he forget Ducati's mega-offer to Lorenzo. That still hurts.

Rossi may actually move to Ferrari next year.

In that case Lorenzo will stay at Yamaha, with Spies as teammate.

Pedrobot may join Bautista at Suzuki.

Ducati would get Simoncelli and keep Hayden.

I'll put it out there and say that Simoncelli never gets a factory ride in MotoGP. After a few years on satellite machinery he defects to WSBK and fills the hole that Biaggi leaves at Aprillia when he retires.

TP70 said:

I'll put it out there and say that Simoncelli never gets a factory ride in MotoGP. After a few years on satellite machinery he defects to WSBK and fills the hole that Biaggi leaves at Aprillia when he retires.

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You dont like european riders much do you ?

J4rn0 said:

Stoner may actually go to Honda, after all.

How can he forget Ducati's mega-offer to Lorenzo. That still hurts.

Rossi may actually move to Ferrari next year.

In that case Lorenzo will stay at Yamaha, with Spies as teammate.

Pedrobot may join Bautista at Suzuki.

Ducati would get Simoncelli and keep Hayden.

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Simoncelli under a two year contract and Repsol have an option to promote him to factory Honda.



I don't think Simoncelli can go anywhere.

Moody has mentioned thae fact that Colin Stoner was there at Jerez, indicates deals are being looked at.



I kinda like the early start to a silly season.

I reckon Pedrosa will not stay at Honda beyond this year, no matter how this season pans out.



A move to Ducati is highly unlikely, so it's either Yamaha (which depends on whether Rossi or Lorenzo chooses to leave) or Suzuki, to team up with Bautista (this is looking the more likelier option now).



Oh and Rossi will not move to Ferrari. Speculation is that Kubica is lined up to partner Alonso.

chopperman said:

You dont like european riders much do you ?

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I don't like the over supply of Italian and Spanish riders which combined is well over half the field. I understand that the roots of the Championship are in these countries but I still don't like it. After Stoner it is difficult to see another Aussie on the horizon. Not because there are no good Aussie riders but because the feeder of the sport is european biased. I bet the Euro's would hate it if the field was full of Aussie's just because they were Aussie. Now you could argue that the Italian and Spanish riders are the best and deserve their spot but how do you know this as the lower classes are full of these riders and no-one else gets a shot. Just look at what Stoner and his family had to do to break into the sport. Now tell me that Pedro, Lorenzo, Simoncelli or any of those guys had to make the same sacrifices.



Just look at Moto2 - 33 European riders (8 Italians, 10 Spanish, 1 Brit and 14 from other Euro nations) and 8 Riders from the rest of the world.

125cc - 24 European riders (4 Italians, 8 Spanish, 12 other) and 2 riders from the rest of the world.

These stats don't lie and they give a good indication of what future MotoGP grids will look like. It is interesting that both France and Germany are well represented in the low categories so will be interesting if they can break through in the future. You better hope that WSBK gets more recognition as a talent pool for MotoGP because you guys aren't all that well represented in the lower classes either.



Considering the sport is in a bad way regarding grid sizes, sponsorship dollars, number of manufacturers and depth of talent I wouldn't say the current system is successful. Take in to account the state of the Spanish and Italian economies and it would not be hard to argue from a risk profile all the eggs in the euro and particularly Italian and Spanish basket is smart business. But then I don't think you or anyone else has ever called Dorna 'SMART'!

geewhiz14 said:

I reckon Pedrosa will not stay at Honda beyond this year, no matter how this season pans out.

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I would see Pedrosa goingto Moto2 as a very sensible move.

I think Stoner to Honda is a very real possibility. Suppo,s move could have been the first move in the silly-season chess game.



is200 seems to know Caseys moods and loyalties. For me, the big question is...............was the big offer to Lorenzo last year seen as disloyalty by Ducati to Stoner? If so, then Honda is a likely destination. If not, he seems quite happy with the "family" atmosphere within Ducati and will stay.



I,m sure Hondas dream team is Stoner AND Lorenzo, and considering Honda,s lean years, then I think they will be willing to spend a fortune to get both.

Yamaha wants Rossi and Lorenzo to stay and will offer what it can to retain them both, but Honda can outbid Yamaha for Lorenzo,s services.

Rossi wants to stay at Yamaha, but without Lorenzo (or even Stoner), but if Lorenzo signs up, I doubt Rossi would leave..............................unless the now more rideable Ducati is starting to tempt him. If Stoner goes to Honda and Yamaha signs Rossi, what will Lorenzo do?.......go to Ducati as no 1 or to Honda as equal status as Stoner (initially).This is another big question for me.



My scenarios are:



A)

Honda: Stoner , Lorenzo

Yamaha: Rossi, Spies

Ducati: Hayden, Dovisioso/Pedrosa



OR



Honda: Stoner, Pedrosa

Yamaha:Lorenzo, Spies

Ducati:Rossi, Hayden/ Dovi



OR

C)

Honda: Lorenzo, Doviziosa

Yamaha: Rossi,Spies

Ducati:Stoner,Hayden



OR

D)

Honda: Stoner, Pedrosa

Yamaha: Rossi, Lorenzo

Ducati: Hayden, Spies?





I suspect D will occur, buy would be intruiged by B, but A may be the result if Honda opens its coffers.

I think Stoner cares less about who his teammate is than Rossi and possibly even Lorenzo

If Stoner leaves Ducati and Ducati fails to sign Rossi, they may be stuffed.......................

BarryMachine said:

I would see Pedrosa goingto Moto2 as a very sensible move.

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I disagree. He'd absolutely blitz the field in Moto2 and will find no challenge in that. He'll be man enough to want to stay in MotoGP even if it means taking the risk of not getting a factory ride.

TP70 said:

Considering the sport is in a bad way regarding grid sizes, sponsorship dollars, number of manufacturers and depth of talent b

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How did you work out the sport is in a bad way regarding depth of talent? It's as strong as its ever been

Tom said:

How did you work out the sport is in a bad way regarding depth of talent? It's as strong as its ever been

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I think the top is as strong as it has ever been but once you drop down past the top 6 or 7 riders I think the talent is pretty average. Considering this is the elite of the elite I think the depth is poor. I don't want to continuously harp on the Spanish Italian thing but they are farming in too small a field. You can't have the top 5 riders from each of two countries and call it elite. You also can't fix it over night it will probably take 5 years to foster talent in many countries so the top 1 or 2 riders from 10 countries are in the elite category.



Look at Capirossi for example : 190 Premier Class starts for only 9 wins. Now I like Capirossi but come on he should have moved on well before now. Colin Edwards: 121 starts for 0 wins. Melandri: 116 starts for 5 wins.



Now tell me when do you think any of the below riders will score a victory:

Kalio

Espargaro

Bautista

Barbara

Simoncelli

Aoyama

Edwards

Capirossi

Melandri



Not in 2010, probably not in 2011, what about 2012 or maybe 2013?



These are riders who are good riders in any other Championship but this is MotoGP. None of these riders will ever command a top level factory seat although some of them have but still did not much with it. The rookie rule should of done away with the old blokes hanging around. I think the rookies should get 1 or 2 years to show something special and if not ....gone! They don't have to win but they have to show something special. Eg. Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa all put it on pole within their first couple of races.



In Australia the Private Schools have scouts out all over the pacific rim looking for talented rugby players to offer scholarships to so they can win the school rugby season. This is 17 year olds for a local school comp. We are talking MotoGP World Championship and the best we can do is find 5 Italians and 5 Spaniards and 3 Americans to put on 13 of 17 bikes.



To bloody right there is a lack of depth in MotoGP.

TP70 said:

I'll put it out there and say that Simoncelli never gets a factory ride in MotoGP. After a few years on satellite machinery he defects to WSBK and fills the hole that Biaggi leaves at Aprillia when he retires.

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Well, let's put it on record and see what happens then.

Thinking that Simoncelli cannot ride a MotoGP bike competitively is poor judgement, imho. He was a slow starter in 250 too, remember! And actually he's not that slow now: at Jerez he already has done better than Aoyama, Bautista or Barbera, his "classmates". My judgement is exactly the opposite -- Simoncelli is there to stay in GP, and it will be fun seeing him battling it out with the others. Especially as a Ducati rider, I see him doing better than most people seem to expect. And I know Ducati have a close eye on him -- this also is for the record

J4rn0 said:

And I know Ducati have a close eye on him -- this also is for the record

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ohhhhhhh

J4rn0 said:

Well, let's put it on record and see what happens then.

Thinking that Simoncelli cannot ride a MotoGP bike competitively is poor judgement, imho. He was a slow starter in 250 too, remember! And actually he's not that slow now: at Jerez he already has done better than Aoyama, Bautista or Barbera, his "classmates". My judgement is exactly the opposite -- Simoncelli is there to stay in GP, and it will be fun seeing him battling it out with the others. Especially as a Ducati rider, I see him doing better than most people seem to expect. And I know Ducati have a close eye on him -- this also is for the record

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I am happy for that to go on record.



Lets examine him in comparison to the other rookies you mentioned.

Aoyama - riding probably the lowest end satellite Honda for a single bike team brand new to MotoGP.

Bautista - riding the worst factory bike on the grid that his extremely experienced team mate can do nothing with either.

Barbera - on a single bike team brand new to MotoGP with a bike supplied by a manufacture that has thrown many experienced riders at it to no avail. Also that bike is completely reworked for 2010 and has a chassis unlike any other bike on the planet.



Whilst Simoncelli is riding for the most experienced Honda Satellite team who is surely at the top of the satellite pecking order and has probably delivered him the most factory spec Honda outside of Repsol colours and a team mate who is very experienced and has won on the same brand of bike several times.



I would not be bragging about Simoncelli's accomplishments if that is all they are. The other thread also suggests that he is not to intelligent and at best is an outcast in modern society with his views on women and his fellow competitors. If Ducati were looking at him then more comments like those he made will make him unmarketable which is not what their sponsor wants.



Once he starts beating Edwards and Spies week in week out then he may get a look in.



I'll shave my head if Simoncelli gets a factory ride before 2013.



The only bike Ducati would be looking at him for is an 1198R in WSBK.

TP70 said:

I don't like the over supply of Italian and Spanish riders which combined is well over half the field. I understand that the roots of the Championship are in these countries but I still don't like it. After Stoner it is difficult to see another Aussie on the horizon. Not because there are no good Aussie riders but because the feeder of the sport is european biased. I bet the Euro's would hate it if the field was full of Aussie's just because they were Aussie. Now you could argue that the Italian and Spanish riders are the best and deserve their spot but how do you know this as the lower classes are full of these riders and no-one else gets a shot. Just look at what Stoner and his family had to do to break into the sport. Now tell me that Pedro, Lorenzo, Simoncelli or any of those guys had to make the same sacrifices.



Just look at Moto2 - 33 European riders (8 Italians, 10 Spanish, 1 Brit and 14 from other Euro nations) and 8 Riders from the rest of the world.

125cc - 24 European riders (4 Italians, 8 Spanish, 12 other) and 2 riders from the rest of the world.

These stats don't lie and they give a good indication of what future MotoGP grids will look like. It is interesting that both France and Germany are well represented in the low categories so will be interesting if they can break through in the future. You better hope that WSBK gets more recognition as a talent pool for MotoGP because you guys aren't all that well represented in the lower classes either.



Considering the sport is in a bad way regarding grid sizes, sponsorship dollars, number of manufacturers and depth of talent I wouldn't say the current system is successful. Take in to account the state of the Spanish and Italian economies and it would not be hard to argue from a risk profile all the eggs in the euro and particularly Italian and Spanish basket is smart business. But then I don't think you or anyone else has ever called Dorna 'SMART'!

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Really nice equality thoughts, but let me scale it down for you… What chances do you think a Latin American (that could be a great Rider) has? And I am not talking only for my Country, but from Tijuana to Patagonia!



So if it is all about fairness, we should have even scale it down through Asia, Latin America and Africa!

VHMP01 said:

Really nice equality thoughts, but let me scale it down for you… What chances do you think a Latin American (that could be a great Rider) has? And I am not talking only for my Country, but from Tijuana to Patagonia!



So if it is all about fairness, we should have even scale it down through Asia, Latin America and Africa!

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I know its not quite latin america but Yonny Hernendez from Columbia is close. He is the bees knees!

TP70 said:

I think the top is as strong as it has ever been but once you drop down past the top 6 or 7 riders I think the talent is pretty average. Considering this is the elite of the elite I think the depth is poor. I don't want to continuously harp on the Spanish Italian thing but they are farming in too small a field. You can't have the top 5 riders from each of two countries and call it elite. You also can't fix it over night it will probably take 5 years to foster talent in many countries so the top 1 or 2 riders from 10 countries are in the elite category.



Look at Capirossi for example : 190 Premier Class starts for only 9 wins. Now I like Capirossi but come on he should have moved on well before now. Colin Edwards: 121 starts for 0 wins. Melandri: 116 starts for 5 wins.



Now tell me when do you think any of the below riders will score a victory:

Kalio

Espargaro

Bautista

Barbara

Simoncelli

Aoyama

Edwards

Capirossi

Melandri



Not in 2010, probably not in 2011, what about 2012 or maybe 2013?



These are riders who are good riders in any other Championship but this is MotoGP. None of these riders will ever command a top level factory seat although some of them have but still did not much with it. The rookie rule should of done away with the old blokes hanging around. I think the rookies should get 1 or 2 years to show something special and if not ....gone! They don't have to win but they have to show something special. Eg. Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa all put it on pole within their first couple of races.



In Australia the Private Schools have scouts out all over the pacific rim looking for talented rugby players to offer scholarships to so they can win the school rugby season. This is 17 year olds for a local school comp. We are talking MotoGP World Championship and the best we can do is find 5 Italians and 5 Spaniards and 3 Americans to put on 13 of 17 bikes.



To bloody right there is a lack of depth in MotoGP.

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....... hell TP, Cant you be consistent in your argument You have contradicted yourself several times this past week. You were telling us how it's all the bike and unless your on a top factory ride you have no chance. Now the tallent is poor below the top 6 or 7 riders