Stoner critical of Hayden

Talpa said:

Rossi and Jb's woes are an extreme testament to what a poor state the Ducati was left in, as many know, they are the best at turning a bike around and they are still struggling, which compounds the fact that Stoner just got on and rode it with very little feel-and thus crashed a lot- meaning his Data was completely ignored or useless- Ducati's fault yes, and Stoners too.......and the problems are still trying to be rectified today, no one is saying that he is not a great rider, this season however certainly doesn't prove that he is streaks ahead of the other top guys at all, and the fanboy state of his support around here is as bad and worse than anything seen from Rossi's camp.

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Keep telling yourself this, if rossi and jb make the bike competitive without a major re-design you might even have an argument .



Until then, 23 of ducati's 30 race wins have been by stoner, and in his "poor" seasons of 2009 and 2010 he still won more races than ducati has in any season without him, and more than rossi appears likely to win this year; he should be ashamed of being such an impediment to ducati. Ducati have also previously demonstrated the ability to proceed from a reasonably good bike to a pig the next year without any assistance from stoner, in 2004, and in any case made it pretty clear that they were moving away from his preferences/development for the 2010 bike which is when the thing became truly diabolical.



Btw, since you are fond of records, stoner's record for race wins against rossi in races in which both competed, which would be considered by most people to be the only races in which he had any opportunity to beat valentino, is now 27:26 in all years on all equipment.



I am well aware that all of these riders are one racing or training accident away from all ambitions failing, even riders of valentino rossi's quality as he demonstrated last year. This is why all my prognostications about stoner's future are qualified by "if", as opposed to yours about the certainty of rossi/jb fixing the bike and the certainty of stoner's responsibilty for the current problems.



As I said in the previous post, your dislike of stoner is a real source of pleasure for me, and like andy roo I don't give a toss if others dislike him either, although even that (other than the odd rossi fan on motogp forums and the odd drunken british fan at the british gp) seems to be a supposition that since you dislike him so much everyone else does as well.

Stoner does not mean to criticize Nicky but merely answered the question as he was asked about him. I think he is right that Nicky should not wait Rossi developing the bike. The season may be over. In last 6 races of last season, Stoner won 3 races. Nicky got 3rd at Aragon on his own merit. New one is not necessary better than old one. If he tries last year bike, he may be able to get better results. The best way for him to secure the seat beyond 2012 is to outperform Rossi constantly. It sounds impossible, but, being nice to Rossi and his personal tester do not guarantee the future seat.



As for blocking in practice, I think Stoner tends to be hot headed in the practice session. It is one of many incidents that are too trivia to take a note.

Fred Gassit said:

Agreed.



But,



Doesn't this become something of an issue for the Riders Safety Council ?

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Yes but we here that not many riders go to the safetey council because it is unproductive, and mainly consists of Rossi raising the issues he cares about, like electronic rider aids and weight restrictions. Randy Mamola has been saying recently how important it is for motogp to have a mandatory riders meeting at each event, like they do in F1. I agree completely.



As for the riders slowing on track, i hope it doesn't get dismissed as a trivial problem because the riders don't seem to be as careful as they should and it could all end in tears. Does anyone remember when Smith was coasting on the racing line at Assen in his Repsol 125 days and a rider on a hot lap tailgated him pretty hard. I think it was Iannone and i think he was injured a bit.

The council should have a current rider or two that are appointed by a vote ( if they aren't already), and then some ex riders, also voted in, so as not to be biased.



I know.....nice dream.



For someone, who in his day was a loudmouthed kid ( albeit, a brilliant one on a bike)......Mamola has turned into quite the elder statesman.



Seems to have alot of valid points and understanding of what goes on.



If the council is to have any validity, it should not be voting on equipment ( Trac control ect) until it is a real safety issue..........manufacturers should have nothing to do with, and no input or bias on it's decisions.



It should address the riders safety concerns, and that which directly affects those only.



Maybe , Rainey, Lawson, Sarron, Magee, Beattie for the oldies.............they may not be current, but they'd have a damn good idea of what it's like out there, and have no affiliation with any particular team or bike company,and have a high standing in the motorcycling/GP community. They are also not bloody minded in their opinions, or worried about getting up DORNA's nose.



There would be other, just as suitable candidates, I'm sure.......but it is late here, and my brain ( small as it is) is starting to struggle for names.

#22 said:

I like Stoner for his riding abilities but he seems out of control with his outbursts this year. He has the best bike and the most raw speed in the paddock so just get out there and win.



Just out of interest I did a quick calculation. If all 16 bikes were on the track at the same time and all spread evenly through thr 3.6 mile circuit there would be apporx 200m between each of them. Not a lot at 200mph sure but the fact is the bikes wouldnt be spread equally. So Casey, stop whining and just find a clear peice of tarmac

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Thats easier said than done when other riders are literally waiting on you so they can follow and learn lines, then get a tow on the straights.

#22 said:

Just out of interest I did a quick calculation. If all 16 bikes were on the track at the same time and all spread evenly through thr 3.6 mile circuit there would be apporx 200m between each of them.

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Hmm... according to the motogp page the lenght of Silverstone is 3667 miles or 5902 meters. 5902 divided per 16 is 368 meters.

povol said:

Thats easier said than done when other riders are literally waiting on you so they can follow and learn lines, then get a tow on the straights.

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The ideal lines are the same for pretty much all bikes and everybody knows them after around 10 - 12 laps. It's the personal braking points and the evaluation of alternative overtaking choices that make the difference and nobody gets to observe those from a tow.

L8Braker said:

Tom that's easier said than done and I can tell you that from my experience from motocross and BMX racing and that's no where near as fast as road racing, I'm sure several of our regular track day/roadracing folks can attest to how hard it is to stay out of competitors ways while trying to get along with your business.

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L8 you should witness a bmx sx "b" practice sometime. They split the racers into an a and b group with only the top 30 in points in the a group. Then the rest of the guys that show up get 45 minutes to dail in a track. It could easly be 100 guys. Half of whom have never seen a sx starting hill in their life. Its quite a spectacle to watch watch them avoid bodies and bikes and strechers. Its knarly!



I dont want to get to much into the CS issue. I think we all know how I feel about him. And everyone above summed up his issues very well. I wouldn't doubt he is bi-polar. He is mental for sure.

hawkdriver said:

Just watch your back Nicky, the guy's been known to commit the most cowardly of acts and throw a sucker punch, never mind the times he's stood people up in practice this year.

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Stoner isn't the only one guilty of throwing a sucker punch in this paddock.

Tom said:

If the Hayden issue is the one i think it was, Nicky looked and saw Casey coming while he coasted up the inside into the final turn, he didn't slow down or move over enough and he was right where Casey needed to be despite knowing he was coming. That is a poor bit of riding.

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I was sitting level with the front row and watched this unfold. I cringed watching it live, because it looked exactly as you described. Hayden stuck on the inside and didn't seem to brake or gas, just coasted, and seemed to hold Stoner up. But then they showed a replay on the big screen from Stoner's onboard. Stoner was past him before apex. He may have been slightly (and I must emphasize the word slightly) off line, but he didn't get held up as much as it first appeared. I think Nicky has it about right, Stoner is looking for a bit of motivation.

moto3 said:

I think he is right that Nicky should not wait Rossi developing the bike. The season may be over.

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I don't mean to play conspiracy theorist (OK, I do), but who's to say anyone is listening to Hayden anyway? We'll never know for sure how much input Hayden has, but you don't go through all the effort Ducati have in bringing over Rossi and JB and company to put them in equal standing to Hayden and Juan Martinez (Martinez is still there, right?).

I had nothing to say and nothing to apologize for but if he wants to talk about we can.

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It might be a mountain out of a molehill, but this is what Hayden said to Biaggi back in the day. Biaggi never turned up. And that was no joke. I suspect there's some animosity between the two.

bigbang said:

Hmm... according to the motogp page the lenght of Silverstone is 3667 miles or 5902 meters. 5902 divided per 16 is 368 meters.

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Damn, and all on 22 liters of fuel

chopperman said:

Damn, and all on 22 liters of fuel

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Honda is always talking about the power of dreams. They must be extremely efficient.

Austin said:

Honda is always talking about the power of dreams. They must be extremely efficient.

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maybe i should have got a Honda if it can do 3667 miles on 22 liters of fuel. im lucky to get 80 miles out of that much

chopperman said:

maybe i should have got a Honda if it can do 3667 miles on 22 liters of fuel. im lucky to get 80 miles out of that much

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The other nice thing is dreams are readily available, you don't need to go to specifically Shell stations to find them. Squeeze them out of a passing child if you have to.

Austin said:

I was sitting level with the front row and watched this unfold. I cringed watching it live, because it looked exactly as you described. Hayden stuck on the inside and didn't seem to brake or gas, just coasted, and seemed to hold Stoner up. But then they showed a replay on the big screen from Stoner's onboard. Stoner was past him before apex. He may have been slightly (and I must emphasize the word slightly) off line, but he didn't get held up as much as it first appeared. I think Nicky has it about right, Stoner is looking for a bit of motivation.

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Ok so stoner only had to go a foot or two of line and probably didn't lose a whole lot of speed, but that isn't the point. Casey had to commit to the corner, in those conditions knowing that some ..... is coasting up his inside. In that situation Casey can't be sure where Nicky is, especially since Nicky saw him coming and made no effort to get out of the way - I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in someone to do the right thing if they'd already been that foolish and inconsiderate.

L8Braker said:

yea, but think of all that damage your doing to the road with the firebreathing beast of yours...some satisfaction in that mate!

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Just for fun:



3.667 miles per lap = race distance 73.34 miles on 5.812 galls = 12.62 mpg

Or for those of us do it the other way 18.64 liters/ 100 Km

aka - Autobahn consumption BMW V8 or similar

My 500 Goldie racer slurped more through a Gartner - oh and wasn't quite as fast - or was that me

ptk50 said:

Just for fun:



3.667 miles per lap = race distance 73.34 miles on 5.812 galls = 12.62 mpg

Or for those of us do it the other way 18.64 liters/ 100 Km

aka - Autobahn consumption BMW V8 or similar

My 500 Goldie racer slurped more through a Gartner - oh and wasn't quite as fast - or was that me

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12.62 mpg aint too bad at all at the revs and power output those bikes are pumping out ! im impressed

Austin said:

It might be a mountain out of a molehill, but this is what Hayden said to Biaggi back in the day. Biaggi never turned up. And that was no joke. I suspect there's some animosity between the two.

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I reckon !!!!



Hayden had the audacity and outright gall to,



1) out place Stoner in races last year



2)Stay upright, and therefore outplace Stoner in races last year.



Woe betide anyone on a Repsol Honda shod machine that should be so feckless as not to know their place in the line.





It's the same ol' tactic used by Mick Doohan on everyone/anyone who had the ability to be able to stick somewhere near him Whinge whinge bloody moan. "Criville copied my settings"....... "Criville is only able to ride near me cause he copied my settings" ect ect ect.





It's the same ol' tactic used by Rossi on Sete Gibbon, Max Be-aggy pants.......although the whinge at Hee-Haw copting his settings seemed strangely minor.........I don't think that had anything with not being able to go with Hee-Haw, but maybe down to feeling pissed at Yamaha for giving Hee-Haw a pay rise, ( when he , as Rising Sun says, of the vomit coloured leathers, had offered to accept a pay cut, after Yamaha had cried poor) which in itself is rather childish........Although, in the same breath, a bit of a kick in the face to Rossi and JB...........the very people who dragged what was left of Yamaha from the position of sucking it's thumb and clutching (like a childs security blanket) dirty rags once used by Kel Caruthers somewhere in a dark corner of the workshop back to the top of the dias. A feat which akin to the second coming.





( Suzuki actually doing anything since they lost the one rider with the ability, and aparent complete lack of a sense of self presevation in his efforts to drag (and keep) a random assortment of nuts, bolts and various motorcycle looking bits to the top of the podium, is the Biblical equivelant of a second creation..... )





And now this Tactic is being used (somewhat poorly.........in direct comparison to the previous two examples........ahhh the youth of today) By Hee-Haw and Lord Big ears on poor ol' Simo.



This tactic, when you read between the lines, usually comes into play when riders who are doing well identify a threat to their standings or position, and commence with deriding the said individual in the public domain by using their" Lordy-Lordy -look at me and my acheivements....I know what I'm talking about and this guy is dangerous/can't do a thing without my help/is a whinger (???)/is in my way/slower bikes on the track" until the poor sod actually belives what they say and crumples into a heap before dissolving back into the general populus.....AKA Criville and the Gibbon.



The thing that's laughable is watching Hee-Haw and Stoner waffle on, when Simo is doing no worse than



1) Stoner at LCR (c'mon people, it wasn't that long ago....take those coloured glasses off)



2) Stoner in 250's



3) Lorenzo's first year in Moto.



Watching them sit side -by side and "Yes, yes......based on our infinite wisdom, I concur with what Prof Hee-Haw is saying"



..........""Yes, with our combined wisdom and all round nice fellow-always do everything by thbook-never dirty reputations, I determine that Casey and Myself are 100% correct"



.....is one of the funniest things I have ever seen. The only thing that can/will top this is the eventual falling out they will have when the inevitable battle between them occurs.





"Casey is dangerous"



"I used to have respect for Lorenzo....."





Who's worldy wisdom will carry the weight of persuasion then.....





Dear oh dear Simo..........fancy placing you leg exactly where Hee-Haw planned to put his bike and make him crash..........I mean, really........just how stupid are you ???



And as for Stuffing up Pedrosa second attempt of the move he tried to put on Hayden (was it the same corner ?), I mean...it would have worked for sure this time.........





( Seemed a bit Bullwinkle J Moose to me.."Hey rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat !" ......

"Again??"...

...."this time for sure !........wooaahh.......wrong hat")







Hope these inept mind games don't get to Simo, and he has the chance to improve (or not).........Just as Tweedle-dee and Tweedle-dum had the opportunity to do.

chopperman said:

maybe i should have got a Honda if it can do 3667 miles on 22 liters of fuel. im lucky to get 80 miles out of that much

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Yeah... but Nicky's a bit more aerodynamic than you.

Tom said:

Ok so stoner only had to go a foot or two of line and probably didn't lose a whole lot of speed, but that isn't the point. Casey had to commit to the corner, in those conditions knowing that some ..... is coasting up his inside. In that situation Casey can't be sure where Nicky is, especially since Nicky saw him coming and made no effort to get out of the way - I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in someone to do the right thing if they'd already been that foolish and inconsiderate.

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This is his second incident with Hayden this year. You might not be that inconsiderate but do you remember when Casey stood up Abraham and Hayden this year during a practice sesion. He did it to Hayden mid corner, like Hayden was supposed to know Casey was coming. He can't have it both ways and go on sooking and moaning when he's doing his fair share of dirty .... out on the track. This is my main gripe with him, don't cry about safety then go onto the track and get revenge, putting others at danger because you're pissed. There's a big difference between doing something with negligence and doing it with intent, but to have the nerve to go and cry then do the same garbage is indefensible. He's gonna pull his .... on another rider that won't yield sooner or later and I honestly hope he doesn't get hurt when he catches a front tire running around standing people up in practice. He also supposedly had an incident with Aoyama( I only heard about it and didn't see it) as well this year and who knows how many others. I think he's been getting off the hook for his riding a bit to much now, the bikes have brakes, if you aren't sure than use your brakes.... safety first right Casey.