Silverstone Race: Spoilers!

chopperman said:

Believe me Other's feel the same about the repetitive rossi hate of which your guilty !

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Rog.... when's the last time I said anything negative about Rossi? Maybe a year and a half ago?

hahaha Casey "seconda" Stoner. Looks the part but fall's apart !





]Exellent

thedeal said:

hahaha Casey "seconda" Stoner. Looks the part but fall's apart !





]Exellent

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Stoner was the Marlboro man but now he is seconder Seconda man

Think anyone will be able to beat Lorenzo next year??

milli said:

Think anyone will be able to beat Lorenzo next year??

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No. But Hoping Cal will give him a run for his money on the same bike.

chopperman said:

No. But Hoping Cal will give him a run for his money on the same bike.

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I'm hoping he will too - Spies had better start looking for a new ride!

People always forget Hayden in silly season comments, but I think he could have chances outside of Ducati. After all, he's the last man who won a title on a Honda 1000...

J4rn0 said:

People always forget Hayden in silly season comments, but I think he could have chances outside of Ducati. After all, he's the last man who won a title on a Honda 1000...

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Im not ready to write off Hayden just yet. I don't thing he would ever be a championship contender again regardless of bike. Race winner definitely.

Rog, Nicky is manufacturer/sponser dream. It would seem that he sells bikes too if you look at Ducati's sales numbers...not sure how much of that is attributed to Nicky, but hey I'll go with it.

I would love to see Nick on the Yamaha sitting next to Jorge. Like you say, he will never win another Motogp championship, but he would be one hellva team mate to ensure Jorge racks up another championship or two only giving Jorge a run for his money at Silverstone, Assen, and Laguna, and possibly Aragon.



On another note, who thinks Iaonne would be a good match for the Ducati?

L8Braker said:

Rog, Nicky is manufacturer/sponser dream. It would seem that he sells bikes too if you look at Ducati's sales numbers...not sure how much of that is attributed to Nicky, but hey I'll go with it.

I would love to see Nick on the Yamaha sitting next to Jorge. Like you say, he will never win another Motogp championship, but he would be one hellva team mate to ensure Jorge racks up another championship or two only giving Jorge a run for his money at Silverstone, Assen, and Laguna, and possibly Aragon.



On another note, who thinks Iaonne would be a good match for the Ducati?

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We should probably give up predicting who would be a good fit on the Yamaha. I thought De Puniet might do well but he was terrible.

If Vale is not with them next year perhaps Spies will be? Redding on a sat Ducati unless the rookie rules are relaxed.

Frizzle said:

We should probably give up predicting who would be a good fit on the Yamaha. I thought De Puniet might do well but he was terrible.

If Vale is not with them next year perhaps Spies will be? Redding on a sat Ducati unless the rookie rules are relaxed.

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rookie rule is out for 2013...http://www.motomatters.com/news/2012/06/17/rookie_rule_to_be_dropped_for_2013.html

michaelm said:

How is your boy valentino doing on a bike which doesn't suit him which still may have the most powerful engine?

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Extremely Shity

Frizzle said:

We should probably give up predicting who would be a good fit on the Yamaha. I thought De Puniet might do well but he was terrible.

If Vale is not with them next year perhaps Spies will be? Redding on a sat Ducati unless the rookie rules are relaxed.

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I'd rather see him retire while retaining some fond memories of MotoGp.

Frizzle said:

We should probably give up predicting who would be a good fit on the Yamaha. I thought De Puniet might do well but he was terrible. If Vale is not with them next year perhaps Spies will be? Redding on a sat Ducati unless the rookie rules are relaxed.

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Assume you mean Ducati there Frizz

J4rn0 said:

Is it all down to the tires and silly rules? Or, (just to consider all possibilities, even far-fetched ones) have we all overrated Casey Stoner so far? Stoner lost two important duels, one on the wet with Rossi and this one on the dry against Lorenzo. Same kind of fight put up for a few corners, and same reason given at the end for being beaten: chattering, tires.



Lorenzo is his usual Mantequilla-Martillo self on the smoothest and best balanced bike on the grid. In his hands, the Yamaha really looks like the best bike: but there are three Hondas behind him. My impression is that Lorenzo's excellent performance is meeting too little a resistance because Stoner is not performing at his usual level. So now Lorenzo looks like the only alien in the field...



Some have noted that since Casey announced his retirement, he has become slower. This sounds like the old story of Casey's (supposed) psychological weakness that many attributed to him in the past. I am not buying it, I think here the problems are technical, same as it was on the Ducati. Recent rule and tire changes have undermined Stoner's and Honda's strength: as incredible as it sounds, since it is Honda we are speaking of, this seems to be the case.

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The simplest explanation is that lorenzo may just be better than him, as you started off to say, or at least more versatile anyway.



Both his dominant championships were on powerful bikes where he was able to use the power better than others and seemingly overcome other deficiencies in the bikes through an extreme/unique riding style. On both occasions this appeared to be heavily tyre dependent, with all of his wins that I can recall on the hard version of the stiff carcass bridgestone. He extended this to 2 wins on the soft version of the old stiff carcass bridgestone this year, but on both occasions jorge made the same tyre choice as him. To me it looks as though he can't ride the current tyres as well as jorge, and can't make them last a race as well as jorge can, which is what happened even in his 2 great seasons at tracks not suited to the hard compound bridgestone. Whether he would be more competitive on his preferred version of the new bridgestone tyre we will never know, but in the absence of any evidence all credit should be given to jorge as it always should be to whoever is performing the best.



I did say last year on here when stoner looked invincible that the way to stop him would be to take away his tyre. Perhaps I should be more careful.

michaelm said:

Hard to argue with someone who knows what I meant better than I do, but to put it another way please quote any post where I said the yamaha is superior to the honda.



As for the tyres , I agree we are talking at cross purposes; it would seem to be a philosophical difference, you believe in a control tyre, and appear to believe such a tyre should not have to offer anything but a narrow range of options, and I don't , and have never done . Again I ask you as I have now done several times without response why bridgestone could not supply both constructions (as nakomoto also questioned), or why they couldn't continue to supply the old tyre as they did for the first 5 rounds.

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These statements that one bike is better than the other are a little too simplistic imo.

Honda is probably following their usual strategy of first making the fastest engine possible then figuring out how to get a chasis to match. In the 800 era it took them 4 years. They think like Ducati that to have an engine advantage is the way to win.

Yamaha as usual are willing to sacrifice a bit of engine performance to concentrate on better handling. Worked well in the 800 era. Probably works just as well with a 1000.

Strengths and weaknesses exist in both bikes. In both cases they still need a rider.

I would say that with the Honda methodology a stiff tire makes sence because the bike is so aggressive, they rely more a stability in braking and acceleration.

Yamaha is less aggressive but they want more feel to maintain corner speed.

Normally the tire conspiracy wouldnt bother me much, because I figured if Stoner continued another 5 years he would share championships with Lorenzo and in doing provide us with great entertainment. They appear to be the equal of each other while riding in a much different way.

But unfortunatley this is Stoners last year, and Honda have developed an aggressive bike for the tire they thought was to be used. That tire has now changed so imo you are correct, Honda would have to spend considerable amounts to redevelop the bike into a handling weapon ala Yamaha and likely wont happen this year.

So Honda factory will consist of Pedrosa & Marquez? 2013 does sound like so much fun & everyone seems to be looking forward to next year. Is it because 2012 has been THAT terrible & boring??

Gaz said:

Assume you mean Ducati there Frizz

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Ummm yep that's the one.

Not a bad race, although I'm not a fan of silver stone at all, it seems disjointed. Bring back donnignton.



Jorge is the better rider right now, simple. The Hondas are still extremely quick and consistent, Jorge is just better and the Yamaha is better than last year.



A lot of talk about rubber these days, as I've been saying for years BS is the biggest problem in the sport today and the sole tyre reg needs to removed, the rookie rule vanished pretty quick, hopefully there will now be enough noise fromHonda to boot the control rubber too.



Ducati really are in the ...., and after reading what they are rolling out for Laguna, it's goodbye Rossi-probably Hayden too. Who in their right mind would want to ride one in Motogp now.



Rossi on San Carlo/Fiat/Monster Factory Honda, announcement to come before the summer break

Talpa, im sure they'll get rid of spec tire if Marc doesnt like them. Hes the future, so sayth Dorna. The rookie rule is now a thing of the past, there is only one reason for this, the shifting nature of rules continues based on who is the One to be promoted.