Silverstone Race: Spoilers!

MigsAngel said:

Yamaha is best all around package, so Spies should have been in the hunt for the whole race.....instead he cooked his tires and gave up as soon as he got passed Stoner..... JLO comes from way back to win on the same bike that the 'overrated' Spies is on...... And the injured guy that started at the back of the field (not 1 row behind Spies but dead last) comes in just behind Spies by only 4 seconds.... Spies is overrated.... I dont hate American riders....I think Colin is awesome......

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I don't entirely disagree with your assessment Migs. Spies is not cutting the mustard. Cal has preformed much better than Ben this year no doubt. Something of a revelation for Cal given the new formula, as he was nowhere last year. Where I would disagree with you, Spies did not come into this season overrated. He came into this season on strong results over two years in GP. That his season this year has not panned out will certainly flirt with this idea of being overrated. I make the distinction with Bautista, who I think is overrated. His Suzuki results were ..... Randy got on to his machine and was as fast straight away. Bautista looks better than he is because hes on a Honda, the best manufacture in GP. No Lorenzo, and Honda are 123 today. But you want to convince me Yamaha is the best?

Jumkie said:

A. How is this possible? He was 4th in line for the job, and was straight away winning on the Bridestone shod Ducati from the word go.







Well my brotha, I've read nowhere that Stoner has said the problem with the new tire is that it heats up faster. Since you want to buy into Mikes tire assertion, please explain how his complaint about the rear tire today (as the reason for not having the pace to stick with Lorenzo) jives with Stoner's preference for the other FRONT tire choice as detrimental to Honda? It seems this tire conspiracy being pushed by some Stoner fans keeps shifting a bit. How its detrimental to Honda simply does not bare out the reality of the podium positions so far. No Lorenzo, and HRC are 1-2 most of the time if not all of the time. Does that sound familiar?

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Homey,



A. Didn't say BS was working with Stoner to develop the tire. Rather Ducati had been working direct with BS in order to make the bike work well with the tire.



B. I did make it clear that no conspiracy was mooted. Simply that BS in making a tire that would heat up quicker - has unwittingly made a tire that is much less compatible with the Honda. Far as I know both tires heat up faster, not just the front.



The "evidence" of the Honda being at a disadvantage - if one were to call it that - is the manner in which Lorenzo has so completely walked away from Stoner who is known to be a tough competitor who's rarely lost a race to Lorenzo so completely. Lorenzo passed him by with little or no effort.

michaelm said:

I have not heard him say that either, and nor have I said it. I have no evidence for the new tyre not suiting the factory honda other than nakomoto, stoner and pedrosa saying so

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Ah, the independent voices of HRC GP.

michaelm said:

and ahead of lorenzo's recent results. Lorenzo is riding the new tyre, which was his preference, better than stoner; as it happens his fastest lap was only .07 seconds faster than stoner's but he was obviously more consistent and faster at the end of the race. Again as I said, why can't both have the tyre that suits them, although this might well not make stoner fare any better. I imagine that the front tyre and possible effect on the rear tyre choice and balance of the bike could effect rear tyre wear also for that matter, although that is rather beside the point.

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Well Mike, I must say, you are a trooper. You must have got no sleep today. What times was the race in your neck of the woods?



You beat me to the next point. That is correct, Stoner's best lap times were relatively identical to Lorenzo's today. The margin of victory was a combination of Lorenzo's superior consistency and Stoner's acceptance of 2nd place after a ballsy scrap when he got passed. He then focused on holding off for runner up. Ok man, I've been up since 4:00am. I just got scolded for not going back up to the sac to get my Father's Day marital-bed reward. But its is race day, and some things are just more important than ....



Peace out.

Keshav said:

Homey, A. Didn't say BS was working with Stoner to develop the tire. Rather Ducati had been working direct with BS in order to make the bike work well with the tire. B. I did make it clear that no conspiracy was mooted. Simply that BS in making a tire that would heat up quicker - has unwittingly made a tire that is much less compatible with the Honda. Far as I know both tires heat up faster, not just the front. The "evidence" of the Honda being at a disadvantage - if one were to call it that - is the manner in which Lorenzo has so completely walked away from Stoner who is known to be a tough competitor who's rarely lost a race to Lorenzo so completely. Lorenzo passed him by with little or no effort.

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Gots to go homey.



HAPPY FATHERS DAY TO ALL MY POWERSLIDE FRIENDS.

Jumkie said:

Lets shelve this as you are saying you're not saying what I've repeatedly quoted. But, ok.

I fail to see the insight here. You are saying Stoner is correct in saying he didn't prefer the tire he didn't prefer? Uhm, yeah, ok, thats generally how it works. Since you cited Karel Abraham, I'm sure you heard him also say regarding this very issue, posed in a way to comment in reference in particular to Stoner's FRONT tire preference, he said: Well I think the tire is pretty good because it gives more feedback, and that is why we have more tire options, and goes on to say, notice Lorenzo and Stoner use different options, thats because they employ different set up. What does this tell you about what he thinks about the tire options and why they may or may not work?

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Hard to argue with someone who knows what I meant better than I do, but to put it another way please quote any post where I said the yamaha is superior to the honda.



As for the tyres , I agree we are talking at cross purposes; it would seem to be a philosophical difference, you believe in a control tyre, and appear to believe such a tyre should not have to offer anything but a narrow range of options, and I don't , and have never done . Again I ask you as I have now done several times without response why bridgestone could not supply both constructions (as nakomoto also questioned), or why they couldn't continue to supply the old tyre as they did for the first 5 rounds.

Jumkie said:

I don't entirely disagree with your assessment Migs. Spies is not cutting the mustard. Cal has preformed much better than Ben this year no doubt. Something of a revelation for Cal given the new formula, as he was nowhere last year. Where I would disagree with you, Spies did not come into this season overrated. He came into this season on strong results over two years in GP. That his season this year has not panned out will certainly flirt with this idea of being overrated. I make the distinction with Bautista, who I think is overrated. His Suzuki results were ..... Randy got on to his machine and was as fast straight away. Bautista looks better than he is because hes on a Honda, the best manufacture in GP. No Lorenzo, and Honda are 123 today. But you want to convince me Yamaha is the best?

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Honda may or may not be the best manufacturer now, but the overall record is I believe yamaha 15 riders' championships honda 15.

Bring back the tyre wars. Competition drives development and that's good for racing. I don't believe Spies is over rated, he like others has issues this year that's all. If non of us can point out what the issues are then how can they call him over rated?

Your all a fickle bunch who see racers as only as good as there last race. He is on a factory ride for good reason.

Jumkie said:

Ah, the independent voices of HRC GP.

Well Mike, I must say, you are a trooper. You must have got no sleep today. What times was the race in your neck of the woods?

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I don't see that honda need any independent opinion as to which tyre suits their bike. They have made no complaint about others having the tyre of their choice either, they just want to have theirs as well.



The race was on at 10pm our time as are most european races. I am jet lagged as it happens having got off a plane on Friday at 8.00am and done a full day's work. Fortunately don't have to work till the afternoon tomorrow/today.

chopperman said:

Bring back the tyre wars. Competition drives development and that's good for racing. I don't believe Spies is over rated, he like others has issues this year that's all. If non of us can point out what the issues are then how can they call him over rated?

Your all a fickle bunch who see racers as only as good as there last race. He is on a factory ride for good reason.

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I don't know, I've never been a big fan of Ben and said I never saw that it factor in him but if the guy is gonna be this inconsistent he's gonna lose his ride. I read that Cal said Ben has a style and setup that is different from the rest of the M1 riders, maybe he needs to change his style. Anyone who thinks Nicky needs to leave is insane, he's beating his teammate and that's the most you can ask of him. Sadly I think the Duc will remain a POS after seeing the latest article about it on Krops site. CS fans are so used to him winning in dominant fashion, I'm glad they're realizing he's beatable when the opposition has a good bike, both of his championships came with engine advantages and now the Yam is ready to play and they're sill working on a new engine to get better acceleration.

hawkdriver said:

CS fans are so used to him winning in dominant fashion, I'm glad they're realizing he's beatable when the opposition has a good bike, both of his championships came with engine advantages and now the Yam is ready to play and they're sill working on a new engine to get better acceleration.

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How is your boy valentino doing on a bike which doesn't suit him which still may have the most powerful engine?

Is it all down to the tires and silly rules? Or, (just to consider all possibilities, even far-fetched ones) have we all overrated Casey Stoner so far? Stoner lost two important duels, one on the wet with Rossi and this one on the dry against Lorenzo. Same kind of fight put up for a few corners, and same reason given at the end for being beaten: chattering, tires.



Lorenzo is his usual Mantequilla-Martillo self on the smoothest and best balanced bike on the grid. In his hands, the Yamaha really looks like the best bike: but there are three Hondas behind him. My impression is that Lorenzo's excellent performance is meeting too little a resistance because Stoner is not performing at his usual level. So now Lorenzo looks like the only alien in the field...



Some have noted that since Casey announced his retirement, he has become slower. This sounds like the old story of Casey's (supposed) psychological weakness that many attributed to him in the past. I am not buying it, I think here the problems are technical, same as it was on the Ducati. Recent rule and tire changes have undermined Stoner's and Honda's strength: as incredible as it sounds, since it is Honda we are speaking of, this seems to be the case.

Straight to the chase, the last time Jorge had a fully fit season he walked it. If Casey keeps getting beat he will be back in Aus crying over spilt milk. He tried to make a break, got hunted down by Jorge, and for much of the race was struggling to stay ahead of Pedrosa. Normal service is resumed. We watched the marshalls sweeping up various watch parts from around the track today. Boo hoo, he wlll be remembered for running away coz he defend his title. Again.



Bye bye Freddie, it's been a laugh.

basspete said:

Straight to the chase, the last time Jorge had a fully fit season he walked it. If Casey keeps getting beat he will be back in Aus crying over spilt milk. He tried to make a break, got hunted down by Jorge, and for much of the race was struggling to stay ahead of Pedrosa. Normal service is resumed. We watched the marshalls sweeping up various watch parts from around the track today. Boo hoo, he wlll be remembered for running away coz he defend his title. Again.



Bye bye Freddie, it's been a laugh.

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hahaha Casey "seconda" Stoner. Looks the part but fall's apart !

putm on Dunlops

Crutchlow to factory Yamaha. Redding to Tech3

Actually, forget the above comment



Crutchlow to No.10 Downing Street

chopperman said:

Bring back the tyre wars. Competition drives development and that's good for racing. I don't believe Spies is over rated, he like others has issues this year that's all. If non of us can point out what the issues are then how can they call him over rated?

Your all a fickle bunch who see racers as only as good as there last race. He is on a factory ride for good reason.

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Much as it pains me to say so - the latter half of 2011 combined with what we've seen thus far in 2012 is a pretty good intimation that something in Spies is just plain broke. I refrain from speculating about his crew, bad luck and his health. Just seems like whatever "it" is - he seems to have lost it. Saddens me 'cause I thought he might be another Kenny Roberts in the making.

basspete said:

Straight to the chase, the last time Jorge had a fully fit season he walked it. If Casey keeps getting beat he will be back in Aus crying over spilt milk. He tried to make a break, got hunted down by Jorge, and for much of the race was struggling to stay ahead of Pedrosa. Normal service is resumed. We watched the marshalls sweeping up various watch parts from around the track today. Boo hoo, he wlll be remembered for running away coz he defend his title. Again.



Bye bye Freddie, it's been a laugh.

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Jeez - don't you ever get tired of singing the same old song?

No, I'm a bass player, it's good to keep it simple and repetitive. I play to the lowest common denominator, no point in givin it Jaco to folk who don't get it.

You don't need to display the genius of Pastorius - but really... I hate Casey all the time. It's repetitious. Even the simplest of the 12 bar blues guys mix it up once and a while.

Keshav said:

You don't need to display the genius of Pastorius - but really... I hate Casey all the time. It's repetitious. Even the simplest of the 12 bar blues guys mix it up once and a while.

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Believe me Other's feel the same about the repetitive rossi hate of which your guilty !