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Silverstone Race: Spoilers!
- Thread starter Keshav
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Dani has been programmed by the Honda technicians not to overtake Stoner
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Not a bad race at al, it was only a shame that Stoner couldn't keep up with Lorenzo till the end but for a few corners they made it very exciting like Laguna Seca 08.
-Lorenzo did a great job and showed once more his quality.
-Stoner, not bad, indeed he did a good job to not be overtaken by his team mate but he should think and do something about Lorenzo.
-Bautista did his best ride since he has come to motogp, let's see if he continues in this direction.
-Spies had another poor performance apart from his leading laps he didn't do any especial thing except finishing on the fifth position on the best bike today and finishing behind Bautista. If his bike didn't have any problems then he was twice poor.
-Crutchlow fortunately could race competitively in his home gp and he did a nice job.
-Hayden, Well done Hayden well done, it looked to me like after his overtake on Bautista he couldn't get to grip again but he still brought it home in a good place.
-Rossi had another poor gp and lost it by 20 seconds to his team mate.
-Lorenzo did a great job and showed once more his quality.
-Stoner, not bad, indeed he did a good job to not be overtaken by his team mate but he should think and do something about Lorenzo.
-Bautista did his best ride since he has come to motogp, let's see if he continues in this direction.
-Spies had another poor performance apart from his leading laps he didn't do any especial thing except finishing on the fifth position on the best bike today and finishing behind Bautista. If his bike didn't have any problems then he was twice poor.
-Crutchlow fortunately could race competitively in his home gp and he did a nice job.
-Hayden, Well done Hayden well done, it looked to me like after his overtake on Bautista he couldn't get to grip again but he still brought it home in a good place.
-Rossi had another poor gp and lost it by 20 seconds to his team mate.
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Ah yes, because HRC, the brand with 75% of the podium(s) position today is ..... Its must be the tires holding back Honda from getting both their riders on the podium, and a Sat bike in on 4th for good measure, eh my someday to be my dear friend.
I think Stoner rode a great race. Sure he looked unhappy in parc perme, but when does he look happy when he doesn't win? He is a competitor. And his exchange with Lorenzo for a few turns was a great battle. Showed some ball out of both riders. Stoner's response straight back was class and ballsy. He complained about the left tire in the post race interview, but no mention of chatter. If I had to speculate a problem problem, I would say arm pump that he didn't admit. But I just think he got beat straight up without any need for explanation. Hes not out of it by any means. The points will tight up.
Pedrosa, complaining about this and that, boo whoo font tire bla bla bla, surprise surprise. Yeah, I guess he needs to blame something when he keeps getting beat by his teammate.
Bautista, that pole was lucky, no sane person would assess anything different. Nobody took me up on the podium bet. But he stayed with the leaders, and this was surprising. But lets face it, hes still on a Honda right? Well done to him, but hes still overrated.
Ben Spies got a decent result but not where he should be for sure. I see Migs still hating on all things American.
Cal, other than Lorenzo, I think this was the ride of the weekend. I thought he wouldn't take part and choose to focus on getting healthy for the next back to back rounds, but he decided to give his hometown fans what they came to see. Interesting that expectations changed from hopes of podium finish to just hoping he would make the race, but such is this sport that can be so cruel. I'm not sure what I have more respect for, had he finished on the podium healthy or this 6th place finish with a crack and swollen leg. I'll go with the gritty performance. I've come to learn that Brits are a hardy lot, and Cal represented his countrymen well. Be proud.
Nicky, getting beat by a crippled, are you ....... kidding me? Mike, I think you are right, the tires are ..... haha Nicky hung in there for a while. He has the pace but just can't seem to get his tires to work for race distance. It actually reminds me of the BMW Wsbk problems in previous years, that is, Ducati shred tires. Nicky chose to go with the softer option, and Rossi with the harder, both were well off the lead at the end. Frustrating, as all sane people know these two riders are being hampered by their equipment, unlike say the Hondas. It should be obvious that the Duc pig won't turn.
Other mentionables... Dovi. Looked ready for a scrap on the podium, but it wasn't to be. Goes to show you guys just how tricky the conditions were still despite no other riders crashing. The beneficiary of his crash, the gritty performance by Cal.
Nice little scrap by the ART CRT, the only two competitive CRT machines on the grid. Oh, and well done to Ellison? I think, not sure, where did he end up? Doesn't matter, he finished the race, and that in of itself is an accomplishment.
Ah yes, because HRC, the brand with 75% of the podium position today is ..... Its must be the tires hold back Honda from getting both their riders on the podium, eh my someday to be my dear friend.Not sure how this line of reasoning jives with the reality of the results. Stoner can shake his head all he want while looking the rear tire in parc ferme, but it still doesn't prove anything against the overwhelming evidence. Honda is fine, still the best. The tires are fine, still allowing them to out qual and battle for the lead. That he got simply beat by a man who is super focused is zero to do with Stoner's equipment. I attribute these results to Lorenzo's mindset, that is, a man who started off the season knowing he would need to be perfect to beat Stoner. And Jorge has risen to that challenge, period.
Did I say other than lorenzo was a deserved winner, or have I said in the lead up to this race other than that lorenzo is likely the best of them and that if/when he wins this year it will be because he is better and more versatile?
Does stoner have the tyre of his choice, or does lorenzo have the tyre of his choice? The latter would seem to be the case, but if so "that's racing". To me it looks as though stoner with his extreme riding style needs extra durable tyres (or a stiff carcass anyway) to excel ; he may indeed have been fortunate to have such tyres in 2007 and 2011. It would appear jorge does not, and if so this makes lorenzo more versatile. I don't see why both can't have the tyre of their preference, but as I said it is what it is, and lorenzo is doing better with both on the same tyre, end of story.
How is it that you can discern that stoner is wearing out his tyres because lorenzo is better than him, btw, and that hayden and rossi are doing so because the bike is crap? My argument is with the latter, not the former.
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Oh, I forgot to mention, I read today, (haven't seen the Moto2 yet) but if that rookie rule is scrapped, I will have to give Stoner a bit of kudos for saying FU to GP politics. .... you Dorna. And please people, dont ....... spoil the Moto2 result as I think some of you might not realize us Americans don't see the races in order most of the time.
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This is what you said:
Lets not start splitting hairs.
Friend, you qualified Stoner's result against Lorenzo. Honda needs to apply great resources if Stoner is to have a chance at challenging Lorenzo for the title? What does this imply? C',mon dude. Its Honda's problem? Most people will tell you Honda is the best package on the grid, how do you think they got that way? It sure wasn't a lack of resources.
Brining up Nicky to make a point? I'm not biting, you know the answer my friend.
This is what you said:
Lets not start splitting hairs.
Friend, you qualified Stoner's result against Lorenzo. Honda needs to apply great resources if Stoner is to have a chance at challenging Lorenzo for the title? What does this imply? C',mon dude. Its Honda's problem? Most people will tell you Honda is the best package on the grid, how do you think they got that way? It sure wasn't a lack of resources.
Brining up Nicky to make a point? I'm not biting, you know the answer my friend.
You are drawing implications I did not intend, whether this reflects on you or me I am not sure. I agree honda have already expended much greater resources than yamaha, and I was saying that the way the bikes and riders look at the moment, stoner will only win if honda expends a lot more resources to beat lorenzo through bike superiority, or if lorenzo has bad luck; I am not sure with what in regard to this you take issue, other than perhaps adopting the "straw man" logical fallacy which you have decried in the past.
I conflated your post with rossiofskys (apologies rossiofsky) and changed it before seeing your reply; I was referring to his boy rossi rather than your boy hayden (for whom I have nothing but respect), nevertheless I am interested as I said in my revised post in how you can discern between ducati tyre problems being due to a crap bike and hrc tyre problems being imaginary.
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How can one person be so far off the mark?
Everyone is saying how the Yamaha is the best bike, and you come out with crap.
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Everyone is saying how the Yamaha is the best bike, and you come out with crap.
Karel abraham did say this on the Australian TV coverage, but I would not, but rather that lorenzo on his current bike is the best, as is fairly commonly the case with whichever rider wins the world championship.
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This, but i'd like to add Dovi to the list. Great ride until he had bike issues. would not surprise me he HRC didn't start opening up talks to get him back.
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Back in 2007 when Stoner was doing well it was very much accepted that a good part of what made the bike competitive was the fact they'd been working with BS to make the bike work well with the BS tire.
Not saying there's any conspiracies - simply that BS development towards a tire that heats up faster has been to the detriment of Honda.
That - along with the (as I understand it) last minute change in weight regulations has put the Honda at a disadvantage.
As is apparent in the case of Ducati - throwing money at a problem doesn't always make it go away.
Not saying there's any conspiracies - simply that BS development towards a tire that heats up faster has been to the detriment of Honda.
That - along with the (as I understand it) last minute change in weight regulations has put the Honda at a disadvantage.
As is apparent in the case of Ducati - throwing money at a problem doesn't always make it go away.
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No need to draw implications, you are writing them down well enough. You imply something must happen extraordinary with Honda for Stoner to challenge. "Can't see stoner prevailing barring major application of resources by honda or bad luck for lorenzo." I'd submit, if there is a strawman argument here, its surely your doing by adopting the "bike superiority" position, especially being ironic since Stoner is on the superior manufacture.
I'm not saying the tires are crap unlike you guys. Of the two options, the Ducati riders (and everybody else) preferred the one that Stoner does not, this doesn't make the new tires great, but simply preferred to them. Stoner is not saying the tires won't last as the reason for preferring the other tire, is he? (Make the distinction to your affirmation of Mike's assertion Kesh). Today Casey mentioned the right side (I think) went away after 3 laps, but his biggest complaint regarding his tire preference is that the new tire creates chatter. He is saying its causing him problems in performance in terms of pace. The Ducati riders, particularly Hayden has said tire wear is his issue over race distance (this is NOT what Stoner is complaining about, so don't try and make it the same problem). He had the pace today, and was 2nd in a 20 minute warm up, but he can't make those tires last. Today, the two Ducati riders used opposite tire options. Given that Rossi has mentioned similar tire wear problems while having a much smoother style to Nicky's, I'd have to speculate its an issue with the common denominator which is their machine.
I will say it again slowly. I was not entering into any discussion as to whether honda is superior overall currently, concerning which I am uncertain if you want to know; I don't lack much certainty that they have already expended more resources than yamaha. I was saying that honda would have to spend a lot more money to make their bike still better for stoner to beat lorenzo, freely conceding lorenzo is outriding him at present .
I am also saying the current tyre is not the tyre of stoner's or honda's preference, which is a matter of public record. It looks like stoner was correct in his preference at least as far as he was concerned as well. This is not necessarily unfair particularly given that all riders have the same tyre , although I did say in one early pre-race post that I don't see why they could not have either offered both new tyres that were developed by bridgestone or continued with the previous tyre along with the new as had been the case for the first 5 races; I still don't see why they couldn't do this, as it happens.
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How is this possible? He was 4th in line for the job, and was straight away winning on the Bridestone shod Ducati from the word go.
Well my brotha, I've read nowhere that Stoner has said the problem with the new tire is that it heats up faster. Since you want to buy into Mikes tire assertion, please explain how his complaint about the rear tire today (as the reason for not having the pace to stick with Lorenzo) jives with Stoner's preference for the other FRONT tire choice as detrimental to Honda? It seems this tire conspiracy being pushed by some Stoner fans keeps shifting a bit. How its detrimental to Honda simply does not bare out the reality of the podium positions so far. No Lorenzo, and HRC are 1-2 most of the time if not all of the time. Does that sound familiar?
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Yamaha is best all around package, so Spies should have been in the hunt for the whole race.....instead he cooked his tires and gave up as soon as he got passed Stoner.....
JLO comes from way back to win on the same bike that the 'overrated' Spies is on......
And the injured guy that started at the back of the field (not 1 row behind Spies but dead last) comes in just behind Spies by only 4 seconds....
Spies is overrated....
I dont hate American riders....I think Colin is awesome......
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Lets shelve this as you are saying you're not saying what I've repeatedly quoted. But, ok.
I fail to see the insight here. You are saying Stoner is correct in saying he didn't prefer the tire he didn't prefer? Uhm, yeah, ok, thats generally how it works. Since you cited Karel Abraham, I'm sure you heard him also say regarding this very issue, posed in a way to comment in reference in particular to Stoner's FRONT tire preference, he said: Well I think the tire is pretty good because it gives more feedback, and that is why we have more tire options, and goes on to say, notice Lorenzo and Stoner use different options, thats because they employ different set up. What does this tell you about what he thinks about the tire options and why they may or may not work?
I have not heard him say that either, and nor have I said it. I have no evidence for the new tyre not suiting the factory honda other than nakomoto, stoner and pedrosa saying so
