Should Ducati sack Hayden?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Apr 20 2009, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lets see....Pedro has ZERO GP Championship on a bike built for him
This is often overlooked; you can leave rossi out of 2006 and hayden still beat pedrosa on at best as good a bike. It was dani's rookie season, but no-one can argue he is not a talented rider. As has been said, whether nicky can reach a similar level on an 800 is yet to be established, but if he can't this may be more a reflection on the 800 bikes than on him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 20 2009, 07:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is often overlooked; you can leave rossi out of 2006 and hayden still beat pedrosa on at best as good a bike. It was dani's rookie season, but no-one can argue he is not a talented rider. As has been said, whether nicky can reach a similar level on an 800 is yet to be demonstrated, but if he can't this may be more a reflection on the 800 bikes than on him.

I liked Pedro on the 990

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Apr 20 2009, 01:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I liked Pedro on the 990
Yes, it suggests to me that the honda 800 is a particularly dud bike even for an 800.

people forget that honda midseason was leading the championship and about to extend thier lead before pedrosas horrendous crash...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Apr 20 2009, 07:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>people forget that honda midseason was leading the championship and about to extend thier lead before pedrosas horrendous crash...

no i remember..called "luck"...he ran out....but i've made my point

Sad to...cause Pedro was good on the 990

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Apr 20 2009, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>no i remember..called "luck"...he ran out....but i've made my point

Sad to...cause Pedro was good on the 990


I'm not sure it's down to which bike he's riding, he's just past his peak, he didn't make it and there are to many hungry riders coming into it now, he doesn't stand a chance.

How good the bike is, luck etc is all part of it, which is why I don't complain about 2008. Crashes that are due to the rider's error are part of it, even avoiding crashes caused by other's errors sometimes. Capirossi was probably the most unlucky in 2006 as I think he was brought down by another's error.

Mick doohan would probably have 7 world championships if he hadn't crashed in 1992, but if he wanted to win the championship he shouldn't have crashed, much as I admire him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bonnielass @ Apr 20 2009, 08:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not sure it's down to which bike he's riding, he's just past his peak, he didn't make it and there are to many hungry riders coming into it now, he doesn't stand a chance.

all im saying is he did better on the 990...there was no need for the 800

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 20 2009, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How good the bike is, luck etc is all part of it, which is why I don't complain about 2008. Crashes that are due to the rider's error are part of it, even avoiding crashes caused by other's errors sometimes. Capirossi was probably the most unlucky in 2006 as I think he was brought down by another's error.

Mick doohan would probably have 7 world championships if he hadn't crashed in 1992, but if he wanted to win the championship he shouldn't have crashed, much as I admire him.


Your not wrong there,
when it comes down to it luck probably plays a bigger part then you would think.

A healthy Pedro is still one of the best riders on the track good for a couple of wins a year whereas Hayden was not. The current Honda is developed around Pedrosa so unless he is fully fit you won't see it shine. The 800's seem to really be one dimensional machines.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Apr 20 2009, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A healthy Pedro is still one of the best riders on the track good for a couple of wins a year whereas Hayden was not. The current Honda is developed around Pedrosa so unless he is fully fit you won't see it shine. The 800's seem to really be one dimensional machines.

No he's past his sell by date....I bet Hayden wins more then Pedro this year!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Apr 17 2009, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If Pinky was banned , how come he is still posting ??????????????????

PS Roger is a .......
Rather juvenile and funny coming from the person who believes the season to be over after just one race.


I think people should save there judgement of Hayden for at least longer than one race bearing in mind he is not only on new tyres but a new bike as well. I somehow doubt he will get much useful advise to help him from his team mate.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Apr 17 2009, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If Pinky was banned , how come he is still posting ??????????????????

PS Roger is a .......


Who the hell is this ....... ....!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bonnielass @ Apr 20 2009, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Who the hell is this ....... ....!
dont sweat it, just another fanboy who's been out in the sun to long . Prob a bm alais

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Apr 20 2009, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lets see....Pedro has ZERO GP Championship on a bike built for him
I can't believe you would even have to point this out to the informed GP community.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Apr 20 2009, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lets see....Pedro has ZERO GP Championship on a bike built for him

Despite the fact that i like Dani and am more optimisic than most about him as a rider i agree, he is yet to deliver the goods, when Hayden did. All things considered to date winning a title and little else is more credible than being a consistent front runner/winner who never makes the final step. But looking to the future, considering potential to achieve Dani still sits higher than most, including Hayden in my view.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 20 2009, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hayden still beat pedrosa on at best as good a bike. It was dani's rookie season, but no-one can argue he is not a talented rider. As has been said, whether nicky can reach a similar level on an 800 is yet to be established, but if he can't this may be more a reflection on the 800 bikes than on him.

Firstly Nickies Honda was the best 990 HRC made and as the best RCV, the best 990 ever. Also, i wouldn't agree that Nickies performance since the switch to 800cc could possibly be a reflection of the bikes rather than a reflection of his riding style, because everyone had to change and Nicky has not been able to do so as well as most relative to his previous performance.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 20 2009, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nickies Honda was the best 990 HRC made and as the best RCV, the best 990 ever. Also, i wouldn't agree that Nickies performance since the switch to 800cc could possibly be a reflection of the bikes rather than a reflection of his riding style, because everyone had to change and Nicky has not been able to do so as well as most relative to his previous performance.
I don't disagree, the final iteration of the rcv in 2006 was a great bike, and it would seem likely the repsol hondas would have been the best examples of same. My statement was in deference to the posters on here whom I find credible on other matters who claim that nicky was disadvantaged in 2006 by being given development parts, dodgy clutches etc; whilst I watched the races in 2006, I didn't follow the intrigues surrounding the racing on the internet or in the specialist press as I do now, so I don't otherwise know whether this is likely or not. A priori whilst nicky should have had a bike as good as dani's it would seem unlikely that it would have been better.

I agree that thus far it appears that he was a good 990 rider but is not an exceptional 800 rider, just as melandri appears to be a good honda and possibly kawasaki rider but not a good yamaha or ducati rider. He did show some promising signs on the pneumatic honda last year. He does have a weight disadvantage of the order of those imposed by regulations for compensating more advantageous engine configurations in terms of cylinder numbers, and the top speed differences between he and canepa v stoner and kallio would seem to me to be further possible evidence of the penalty this brings.

A little background would help. Barry writes about abusive private PMs sent by Roger. Well, he is not the only one to have received the "Roger" treatment. About a year ago Roger, Curve and Jazcat were laughing about beating up Casey and raping Adriana. It was all terribly funny for them at the time (sarcasm), but I found it highly offensive. I requested that the moderators curtail this degree of personal abuse, but I did not see any evidence of this ocurring and got into a bit of a spat with the mods over this. I made a post referring to the misogynistic nature of the posts by Roger et. al. , and as reward received a PM from roger containing all sorts of aggressive vitriol. I know that Roger is some sort of hero at this place, but what Barry says is true , and there is a dark side to his nature.

When I read Barrys post , I was unfortunately pissed and rather than detailing this reply , I inappropraitly called him a ....... For that I apologise because it is unhelpful and doesn,t reflect my normal standards. However, it seems ironic that everybody , including Roger, was quick to speculate that Pinky was the noxious PMer, whilst Roger is the one with the track record.

SO, settle down Bonnielass, go and support your misogynistic friend, and apolgies to Marike etc.

Lets get back to the positive aspects of discussing this wonderful sport

PS: I am astounded by Jazcats transformation over the past year, from a Casey hater to one of the more interesting posters here. And with a bit of balance.

I will disagree with both of you, Micheal and Tom. Hayden never had the top HRC machine available. The year he won the championship he did so with an experimental engine that had severe clutch issues while Pedrosa had a standard issue V5 which worked perfectly. If Hayden had've had that machine the year would have gone smoother and he may have won the season earlier. The first race of that year he put the "evolution" machine on the podium and the technicians couldn't believe it. When Biaggi was at HRC he had a year old machine. Rossi had the best machine in the entire paddock not to mention special tires. Last year he finally gave up on a terrible Honda 800cc machine and developed the pneumatic engine while Pedrosa clicked along with the springer until it was ready. I contend that Hayden never had a top machine at Honda. And, he may not have a top machine at Ducati if he hasn't got the carbon frame. I'm not upset about this just stating what I believe to be true. I believe that the reason he hasn't had the top machinery is because he didn't demand it but rode whatever he was given. Some of the situations that he had to endure were more than I could have remained calm for. Believe me a helmet or two would have gone right through the hospitality. He seems to fit right into the 2nd rider role. I guess he should have had some prima donna lessons early on.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bonnielass @ Apr 20 2009, 09:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No he's past his sell by date....I bet Hayden wins more then Pedro this year!

I find it hard to believe that Hayden will outscore Pedrosa this year. Look at the stats and you'll see the potential is not in Hayden's favour. The only race that was a guaranteed win for him was Laguna and that era is over. Pedrosa is fairly injured right now otherwise he is a podium contender at almost every venue. Like him or not he is fast.

Anyway, I don't have any betting money so propose something else and make the year interesting.