I am aware of the limitations and don't like them. What your post implied though was that you wanted to standardise the lot. I take strong exception to that notion.
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I am aware of the limitations and don't like them. What your post implied though was that you wanted to standardise the lot. I take strong exception to that notion.
I come and go.
Yes they've gone backward, because they've got no one providing direction. Until Rossi groks the Ducati (google grok), he won't understand how to fix it. Fixing front ends is not as easy as it seems. Too many complications.
To quote robert a heinlein at the end of that book, at the moment he looks as though he will eventually grok some incurable wrongness.
Video of the test:
http://www.3news.co.nz/VIDEO-Casey-...-2011/tabid/317/articleID/199794/Default.aspx
Check out the rear pumping on the Duke right at the end...
http://www.3news.co.nz/VIDEO-Casey-...-2011/tabid/317/articleID/199794/Default.aspx
Check out the rear pumping on the Duke right at the end...
Not as I recall when they were 250 riders. With regard to stoner at ducati, apart from anything else you obviously haven't been following your boy's pronouncements regardng sepang 2; he can't get the thing to turn mid-corner either. This should not come as a surprise to him as his entire strategy at laguna seca 2008 was based on this deficiency in the ducati.
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Actually, I do not think Ducati have gone backwards, but certainly they have not progressed much while the others -- Honda in particular -- have improved really a lot. That's their problem.
Look at the lap times. Forgetting Rossi for a moment, we see that a rider like Barbera on his satellite Ducati has lapped faster during these tests than Stoner did during the Sepang QP last year, in which he was third.
But now those lap times have suddenly become too slow...
The logic conclusion is that Stoner left Ducati at the right moment, jumping on the right horse and leaving an ageing Ducati, that needs a major redesign to stay competitive in the current scenario, for Rossi to sort out. Smart boy.
Actually, I do not think Ducati have gone backwards, but certainly they have not progressed much while the others -- Honda in particular -- have improved really a lot. That's their problem.
Look at the lap times. Forgetting Rossi for a moment, we see that a rider like Barbera on his satellite Ducati has lapped faster during these tests than Stoner did during the Sepang QP last year, in which he was third.
The logic conclusion is that Stoner left Ducati at the right moment, jumping on the right horse and leaving an ageing Ducati, that needs a major redesign to stay competitive in the current scenario, for Rossi to sort out. Smart boy.
You are taking too much for granted J4rn0
Track conditions & tyres may very greatly from last year. Even at the last Sepang test early this month, everyone was considerably slower. (over a second)
You can only gauge progress compared to your competitors.
I know it's testing but 10th, 11th & 12th isn't where they want to be or expected to be.
Besides JB & VR were expected to dramatically improve the bike for everyone, not just keep it at the same pace as last year.
Nicky certainly has gone backwards it seems which I'm sure he did not expect.
There was one constant during Ducati's successful 800cc era, and he isn't there anymore.
Actually, I do not think Ducati have gone backwards, but certainly they have not progressed much while the others -- Honda in particular -- have improved really a lot. That's their problem.
Look at the lap times. Forgetting Rossi for a moment, we see that a rider like Barbera on his satellite Ducati has lapped faster during these tests than Stoner did during the Sepang QP last year, in which he was third.
But now those lap times have suddenly become too slow...
The logic conclusion is that Stoner left Ducati at the right moment, jumping on the right horse and leaving an ageing Ducati, that needs a major redesign to stay competitive in the current scenario, for Rossi to sort out. Smart boy.
People were saying at the end of 2007, and I agreed with them, that stoner probably had a window to win another championship with ducati in 2008, but would need to move elsewhere after that if he was to win multiple world championships. I think this has proven correct; the ducati was championship capable in 2008 (after they went back to the 2007 engine anyway) but valentino rode brilliantly and the yamaha he developed was also flawless. I doubt valentino, mick doohan or anyone else could have won the championship on the 2010 ducati, and the 2009 bike would have presented difficulties to most as well.
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Well, lap times certainly depend on track conditions etc, but only to a point. In the last two or three years of tests and races at Sepang, with a variety of weather and track conditions, there was never such a dramatic improvement in the lap times. It must depend on something else, and I'd bet that 'something' is called Honda...
With his humble 11th time today, Rossi would have started in pole position in the Sepang 2010 GP, which was only 5 months ago. All Ducati riders are lagging behind now, although all of them have lapped faster than in the past at this track.
It is the Hondas especially with Stoner and Pedrosa, who broke the 2' wall, (!) who have literally dwarfed all the others making them look hopelessly slow.
Well, lap times certainly depend on track conditions etc, but only to a point. In the last two or three years of tests and races at Sepang, with a variety of weather and track conditions, there was never such a dramatic improvement in the lap times. It must depend on something else, and I'd bet that 'something' is called Honda...
With his humble 11th time today, Rossi would have started in pole position in the Sepang 2010 GP, which was only 5 months ago. All Ducati riders are lagging behind now, although all of them have lapped faster than in the past at this track.
It is the Hondas especially with Stoner and Pedrosa, who broke the 2' wall, (!) who have literally dwarfed all the others making them look hopelessly slow.
Honda have no doubt improved, that much is obvious.
But I'm sure Ducati would have known that the bike would need to be significantly faster & handle better than last year.
On both points so far (and granted it's early days) they have not been successful.
It would also be interesting to know what Stoner would be doing on the Ducati right now.
I don't think he would be that far back in the pack, do you?
Looking at the long runs lorenzo wasn't so far off, and the rumours kropotkin has heard concerning yamaha believing it to be honda's "turn"aside, I think he is still well in the mix.
Yes he would, maybe a tenth or two up but that's it!
Everyone keeps talking Duck and Honda, but for reference lets all look at Yamaha, Jorge has only gone just over half a second quicker than he did last year and Ben not much more.
J4no is spot on, Honda have moved the goal posts.
Interestingly enough everyone is carry on about Stoner, but Dani also went instantly quick in the morning, Under 2's within a few laps, and Sic/Dovi are 0.3 back.
Dovi qualified third on the Grid at Sepang 5 months ago with a 2.01.829
Dovi did a 2.00.541 yesterday, 1.3 seconds faster
Everyone else has made steady progress and Honda have leaped.......
Barbera Qualified last year with a 2.02.986, And yesterday bettered that by 1.4 seconds with a 2.01.346......This is Honda Progress though? IMO its still a test and all this Ducati doomsdaying is clouding judgment and hiding the facts.
If Rossi is right in what he says about his Shoulder losing him a second then the 0.8 they need to find is whats troubling.......But from what I can see Hayden is the one of the Duck pilots really struggling on last year.
stoner is a racer he extracts 110% out of every session or any bike that he rides, with teoner its all or nothing and nothing means throwing it down the road, the Honda is a quick bike it proved its self at the latter part of 2010 and when I heard that stoner was going to ride that thing I knew and expected nothing less of what happened at sepang and things will get even better and quicker for him as time goes on in 2011. as far as the ducati is concerned no one will ride the duck as well as stoner no one unless the thing is redesigned for VR and his input is adhered to by ducati…the current ducati is a Stoner weapon and that is it!
You would expect Rossi and JB knew a lot about the nature of the Ducati before they started, so maybe they were very brave (maybe a little arrogant) to publicly suggect they could easily fix the Ducati problems (JB could fix most of the problems in about 90 sec).
Personally, I think the Duc's have gone backwards, and I think Duc are wrongly putting all their attention and focus on JB and Rossi, and Nicky is not getting the time of day. Nicky and Rossi have both said they have a very similar style and like the same things (as opposed to Nicky and CS), so why not let NH actively direct the development and testing of his bike - and maybe VR and JB can learn something from Nickys past experience on the bike,a nd the things he learned from working with CS. Nicky is a very capable rider, and clearly has the ability to take the bike in a direction that suits him.
It seems like Duc have given Nicky a bike based on what JB and Rossi think will work, and he is told to go and cut laps, while everyone waits to see what Rossi thinks.
The Ducati was not a bad bike at the end of the year, and not far off the factory Yamaha's and Honda's. Stoner picked up race wins and podiums, poles, and fastest race laps, and Nicky looked faster than he had been all year, consistently top 5 in both qual and races.
Forget the track times, which are specific to the conditions on the day, the Duc is now miles behind and Ducati look lost. Even based on last years form, the Ducs should both be faster than the Gresini, Tech 3, Suzuki, and the private teams. I don't think the Yamaha's have improved greatly, so Ducati should be close to the back of the two Factory M1's.
Personally, I think the Duc's have gone backwards, and I think Duc are wrongly putting all their attention and focus on JB and Rossi, and Nicky is not getting the time of day. Nicky and Rossi have both said they have a very similar style and like the same things (as opposed to Nicky and CS), so why not let NH actively direct the development and testing of his bike - and maybe VR and JB can learn something from Nickys past experience on the bike,a nd the things he learned from working with CS. Nicky is a very capable rider, and clearly has the ability to take the bike in a direction that suits him.
It seems like Duc have given Nicky a bike based on what JB and Rossi think will work, and he is told to go and cut laps, while everyone waits to see what Rossi thinks.
The Ducati was not a bad bike at the end of the year, and not far off the factory Yamaha's and Honda's. Stoner picked up race wins and podiums, poles, and fastest race laps, and Nicky looked faster than he had been all year, consistently top 5 in both qual and races.
Forget the track times, which are specific to the conditions on the day, the Duc is now miles behind and Ducati look lost. Even based on last years form, the Ducs should both be faster than the Gresini, Tech 3, Suzuki, and the private teams. I don't think the Yamaha's have improved greatly, so Ducati should be close to the back of the two Factory M1's.
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Azi Farni twittered
So perhaps it's not looking quite so horrendous for Rossi at this point in the seaon after all. Spies looking pretty good there, though like Rossi his "long" run was quite short.
Stoner is still my bet for the title though.
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I bet Rossi is kicking himself in the head right about now having burned bridges with Honda. Anyways Hayden is in no way the bench mark of where the Ducati should be on the time sheets. I've always believed Nicky 'The Kentucky Squid' Hayden to be a bottom tier racer who has been way over hyped through out his career.... even when he won the title in 96', having won a mere 2 races on arguably the best bike on the grid that year. So please enough talk about how a healthy Nicky should be further up on the time sheets cuz fact is he is just an average rider at best. I rate him at about the same level as ex-MotoGP racer Niccolo Canepa.
And for the people who says it's only practice and the times aren't that important should stop kidding yourself. Practice is meant to gauge other teams and see where they stand as far as competition goes. Ducati is at a dead end street....... scratching their heads trying to make improvements on a bike that has reach it's pinnacle of development. Unless a drastic change is made to the bike, I cannot see how they can squeeze an extra 1 1/2 seconds out of it.
And oh yeah one last thing......to all you crazy nutty Rossi fanboys, hahahhahahhaha 'IN YO FACE !!'
And for the people who says it's only practice and the times aren't that important should stop kidding yourself. Practice is meant to gauge other teams and see where they stand as far as competition goes. Ducati is at a dead end street....... scratching their heads trying to make improvements on a bike that has reach it's pinnacle of development. Unless a drastic change is made to the bike, I cannot see how they can squeeze an extra 1 1/2 seconds out of it.
And oh yeah one last thing......to all you crazy nutty Rossi fanboys, hahahhahahhaha 'IN YO FACE !!'
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.... I'm out.
Up until the day Rossi signed with the Duke I was still in denial that he would. I have maintained for years that Ducati is a steaming pile of .... that they will never sort out. I only look back upon their brief moto gp history to validate my beliefs. Year after year they have built a bike that works pretty well at some tracks and lays an egg at most.
I don't know if it was some infallible belief in his(VR) and JB's talents or just blind patriotism but soon he may be wondering why he ever tried.
The best and the worst comes out in humans when faced with adversity. I always scoffed at Hopper but if Rossi quits after 1 year on a .... bike than Hopper suddenly becomes someone I greatly admire
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You gotta give him credit though. He was able to beat Doohan when noone else could
I think the ducati was a bad bike all of last year. Even when it was fast towards the end of the year it was prone to losing the front without warning, for hayden as well as stoner if less frequently. Stoner said this was inexplicable and random, to some derision. The difference now is that rossi not being as young or perhaps as foolhardy as stoner is probably not prepared to tolerate this if it is the price of going fast, particularly with a recovering shoulder injury.
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Rossi said at Sepang 2 his shoulder is costing him 0.3 (Sepang 1 was 1 second) so he needs to find 1.5 which in Rossi's own words is a worry. For someone who likes to quote facts can you actually use some from time to time?
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