Rossi's Yamaha vs Dani's Honda

Loris was the undisputed nº1 last race and he is tenth in that list, so according to your logic the Ducati is crap and slow.



Stats can be easily manipulated.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (teomolca @ Aug 24 2006, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Loris was the undisputed nº1 last race and he is tenth in that list, so according to your logic the Ducati is crap and slow.



Stats can be easily manipulated.

so your saying i manipulated those #'s???.....no
i never said any bike was crap, i'm just saying the HONDA is better than the YAMAHA, thats it........some one said prove it, and there it is, you can go back to 2002 and the HONDA has always been the fastest and best bike...

so back at ya son.

I meant stats can be used to manipulate facts. What you posted just proves that the Hondas had a higher top speed at Brno, something very different from being the best bike (Considering the winner was a Duc and the 2nd a Yamaha).

I think the Honda is probably the best bike, but by a very small margin over Rossi's Yamaha, in 2004 the difference was evident you could see the Hondas catching Rossi on the straights and Rossi had to brake later to keep position, that doesn't happen anymore, in terms of power and acceleration they are on par.

The Ducati can't be really compared due to the different tyres.

About what would Dani be able to do on a Yamaha, I'd really like to know. But I don't think Dani will ever go to Yamaha, he's been a Honda rider since ... ever.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vespix @ Aug 23 2006, 01:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You're right, I think. You don't need to match Rossi and Pedrosa to compare rides. Assen is an example of the M1 on a par with its rivals.

If anything, the Honda is less manouvrable in the corners but easier to fine-tune and consistent in most circuits.

The M1, with the engine from Le Mans, seems to remain true to its predecessors: it is among the best bike of the grid, if not the best in some circuits... only very tricky to set-up.

Rossi hasn't had bad luck this season, though he won't admit it, of course, he isn' stupid, hehe.
Huh, no bad luck? Blown engines, trashed tires, run down in the first corner, unridable on qualifiers, and that's not bad luck?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>He risked his championship for the new 06 engine and he knew what he was doing. It is a beast of an engine, like never before; you only need to watch the acceleration it has combined with its top speed.

What is the alternative to new parts. Should he stay with the '05 engine, what about in '05, I guess he should have stayed with the '04 engine. Where would theYamaha be today if they stayed on the "safe" side and not develop and try new stuff?
What top speed? when are Rossi at the top of that list?
His acceleration out of the corners are fantastic and mask out power differences when he is down on power (and the yamaha still is in some conditions) and make him look like a rocket when he's not.
Besides, MotoGP engines don't produce much power compared to the engine displacement. They are very controlled engines and could easily produce more. How that can turn into a huge risk is a mystery to me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Everything is over-stretched now at the yellow box; the chatter, the engine breaking, the (front!) tyre sending chunks of rubber away, Rossi crashing too much (again, but not as much as in his first season in 500 cc) simply because the M1 is so sensitive.

What is overstreched? The weight that easily could be dropped 20kg?
The engine braking??
When michelin officially say they are sorry on Rossi's behalf I tend to think that they might have a reason to, and that they failed to produce a propper (hand made) tire, not that Rossi bikes front end are streched in any way.
Rossi had on crach caused by himself this year, during practice. How that become too much (and way less than last year, two craches in races) is another mystery.

The chatter has to do with tire development. Look at the q-tires to day. They used to be worth two laps, in Bruno Pedrosa lost one second from the last intermediate time and to the finish line in his second lap and last chance to improve his q-time.
Compare race and Q times at bruno. Rossi was at his best 2.5 sec off his q-times in the race. That is a _lot_. Those tires are so much grippier than they used to be and Yamaha has not benn able to adapt.

you can make a comparison on different levels ... top speed being only one of many.

more than anything i think its the riders style and how they are suited to the bike that makes the motorcycle its best.

some one said it before .... stick rossi on a honda and dani on the yam and watch it unfold ...but i guess that could be a bit in the favour of rossi seeing as he rode for honda for so long ... it would be an interesting race anyhow.

in line-4,never been near the V5 for reliability,but jb and crew do seem to have made it better than it was,the new Honda 800cc out for next year,so the formula will be, small bike,small person riding it,mr Pedrosa will think he's back on his 250's =starts winning titles again,and will be crawling all over Mr Rossi. !

lol all over rossi!
Lets just wait and see.... Only reason dani rides for honda cause its a smaller and faster bike. Have no chance on a Yamaha. Didnt rossi dominate the 250s like dani did? he must like smalls bikes too pal.

all these facts and figures meant absolute nothing, when i watch and analize the gp world i do it with 1 easy method......... i use my eyes its so easy, people r now trying to say the bike is superb just to make them feel that rossi aint that good, thats for the rossi haters, with my eyes i can c rossi working overtime on the yam even as bak as 04, hes never going to admit it to us but i bet he loves a honda, yes the yam has upped the grunt but its always down on straight speed as wot ive seen on the so called time sheets.. like ive said thousands of times u dont have to be the fastest to win a race,,

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 25 2006, 01:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Besides, MotoGP engines don't produce much power compared to the engine displacement. They are very controlled engines and could easily produce more. How that can turn into a huge risk is a mystery to me.
What is overstreched? The weight that easily could be dropped 20kg

If all people posting here cared abour reading the posts instead of mechanically banging their heads against their screens, they'd find out that, ooops, we are discussing about the CURRENT Yamaha with the new chasis from LeMans. The one Rossi kissed and hugged at Sachsenring.

Yamahamer-AL, your old man at wrk must be Dunlop's marketing director or something. Be compasionate to him and his miserable life.

Anyway, please don't sell your facts so expensive next time. Here a bunch of us had to pay being called '.......', followed by a few inane emoticons by frosty and topped with your '...' thing. I was tempted to send a few hard-core words in your direction. All in all, apology accepted.

Your point about the top speed is a good one and I take it. I would still like to be convinced that the agility and the acceleration of the M1 is not superior to the Honda's.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ros @ Aug 25 2006, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No, don't go back to 2002. Everybody knows Yamaha is a crap bike back then before Rossi joins. So let's talk about the present 2006 Yamaha.
That's the real deal right there. The issue is about Yamaha vs. Honda, not Rossi vs. Pedrosa. I can only speculate as to what I think and as far as I can see the Honda is a better bike, if Rossi was on this years' RCV he'd be leading the championship, don't think anyone would argue with me there. In this case he's the control, the constant. So who's gonna tell me that the Yamaha is a better bike to be on? Come on?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 25 2006, 01:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What is the alternative to new parts. Should he stay with the '05 engine, what about in '05, I guess he should have stayed with the '04 engine.

Babelfish, 05 engines had one year left of shelf life. It's mad crafting a brand new one for one remaining season when it had won races and set records of scores, lap times, you name it.

Now put yourself for a moment in Rossi's shoes, end of the 05 season. He had literally blitzed the competition. The M1'05 was a champion machine like never seen since Mick Doohan's Honda. Why on Earth would he force a new engine in the old chasis?

Because he knew it is the weapon he needed to cruise a deservely relaxing 06 season, enough to free him to flirt with Ferrari, enjoy WRC invitations and, of course, resist the ascent of Pedrosa.

Only that he went too far.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>It's still no where near the RCV? Are you sure? Perhaps I would say the Suzuki and Kawa is no where near but the Yamaha?? So the reason Yamaha gets its points is only because of the rider, not the bike? So if you put Rossi with the Suzuki and Kawa, would he still be able to stay as competitive as he is right now with the Yamaha?

the Suzuki and the Kawa also are no where near the RC, and the Yama is no dought better than them also (not to RC level though),....
do i think he'd be competative on the others though? yeah i think he would..i'm sure he'd do better than anyone else has done on them.
but to discuss whether Rossi would be competative on "another" bike is a mute point though...he proved that when he won on the Yam 1st year on her....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>About what would Dani be able to do on a Yamaha, I'd really like to know. But I don't think Dani will ever go to Yamaha, he's been a Honda rider since ... ever.

OH NO DOUGHT! totaly agreed....Dani is Hondas baby and creation...they'd never let him go...he's their only hope right now...well maybe KC if he'd stay on the dam thind!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Morgo @ Aug 25 2006, 05:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>lol all over rossi!
Lets just wait and see.... Only reason dani rides for honda cause its a smaller and faster bike. Have no chance on a Yamaha. Didnt rossi dominate the 250s like dani did? he must like smalls bikes too pal.
the Rc211v is not a smaller bike for a start,thats Dani,but it is quicker in a straight line,and at the mo the Yamaha has all sort's of issues with it,so thats sorted,the Honda is better,and why would Dani wanna go back on himself to Yamaha,when he has a better bike under him ?and no rossi did not dominate 250's he was there for one season,which he won the title, so that is not domination,and whats wrong with small bikes,when your a small person,he will handle the smaller bike better, pal.

Off topic but doc, i think rossi did two seasons each in 125 and 250. first year in each class a learning year. it was the same with the 500, but in his second season in each he won the titles with rounds to spare.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Aug 25 2006, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Off topic but doc, i think rossi did two seasons each in 125 and 250. first year in each class a learning year. it was the same with the 500, but in his second season in each he won the titles with rounds to spare.

yup...you are correct, 1 year to learn it, 1 year to win it, in every calss, 125, 250, 500, except for GP, got that one first time around..

to be honest cant remember the last time a Honda engine let go ,cant wait to see this 800cc bike. ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Aug 25 2006, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Off topic but doc, i think rossi did two seasons each in 125 and 250. first year in each class a learning year. it was the same with the 500, but in his second season in each he won the titles with rounds to spare.
My bad,been on the pop last night,but my issue was correct, that Rossi did not dominate the 250 class,but would probably have,had he stayed in it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ros @ Aug 25 2006, 11:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yamaha has certainly improved a lot on its acceleration. I could still remember Edwards giving Hayden a hard time at the TT. His bike certainly works well to challenge the RCV. Again they're able to keep on pace. But reliability wise, Honda win hands down. Did Honda ever had engine breakdown in the middle of a race?

hell the last time a honda broke down was when i hit a tree root with my mower (has a honda engine)

as far as in GP, i can't recall one, except for a couple of tyre or fuel issues.
but no blown engines.... Yamaha has got better, but the RC is a freaking freight train, just doesn't break...but thats HONDA, super reliable..