Rossiboppers- a scientific analysis

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 21 2009, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah... but nobody knew that in 2006. When young Crashey Stoner moved from Honda and took a seat on the very idiosyncratic Ducati - he was a primo underdog. Go back to threads on Stoner from early 2007 and see how many (how few) people were believing in him.
He was an underdog for sure, no doubt. But those days are over for him now. He is a winn.....a w..w..w..winner. There I ....... said it.

But I don't hate on him because he is a winner. I hate on him because he is an annoying little .....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Nov 20 2009, 08:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I now know the definition of Babylon (babble-on). Some tortuous logic there babel.......I,ve never changed my view of Rossi. It just suits your argument to assume this.

As Roo stated, years of biased crap from the likes of you need to be adressed. All the non-sensical excuses for VRs infrequent failures start to grate. The bopper "fans" are my target, not the riders.
Try to find one disparaging comment I have made about a current motogp rider. It will take you a long time.............. I think they are all brilliant, because they provide the spectacle that gives me so much enjoyment.

Before you continue on your brave crusade may I ask: Where did I say you targeted the riders? I said Rossi annoyed the hell out of you, but as you say, you channel your anger towards us.
And by saying Rossi annoy you is not absolutely accurate. What really annoy you guys is that when your guy win (once or twice a year) and everything should be as in paradise the snake come along. It's in your head with that almost inaudible voice saying "it's only because Rossi were out of the podium fight" and then it is here as in the Rossi fans discussing why he didn't reach a podium, unless it was one of those dumb crashes he have now and then. Kills most of the joy soesn't it? Rossi is thousands of km away and can't hear you, but the Rossi fans sure as hell can hear you and you make sure they do if even the vaguest hint of what could have been comes up.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 22 2009, 02:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah... but nobody knew that in 2006. When young Crashey Stoner moved from Honda and took a seat on the very idiosyncratic Ducati - he was a primo underdog. Go back to threads on Stoner from early 2007 and see how many (how few) people were believing in him.

WTF does that have to do with anything here??? 3 years ago dude! Since then he has been a favorite, less so now but still there........

Of course he was an underdog in early 07.....he hadn't really done anything previous in Motogp but crash and finish 8th, with two ok performances at Qatar and Turkey. With No 125 or 250 title to his name. Only his old man, Bridgestone and Ducati's engineers would have thought he could do what he did in 07.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Nov 21 2009, 10:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I believe I have you both beat. I am a wings fan. The yankee fans of hockey.
I believe, technically, that the Montreal Canadiens are the Yankees of the NHL... they rival the pinstripes for franchise championships...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 21 2009, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I believe, technically, that the Montreal Canadiens are the Yankees of the NHL... they rival the pinstripes for franchise championships...
Guess I was thinking lately. The other thing being the wings have fans worldwide. .... its not like anyone from Detroit can go to a hockey game. I get tickets all the time, ....... cheap.

.... they(the city) just sold the Silver Dome for a whopping $583,000! They almost got 20 million last year until the deal fell through, on a building that cost the city 55.7 million to build 35 years ago. I guess they thought 583,00 was a reasonable second offer.

Man talk about off topic.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 21 2009, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah... but nobody knew that in 2006. When young Crashey Stoner moved from Honda and took a seat on the very idiosyncratic Ducati - he was a primo underdog. Go back to threads on Stoner from early 2007 and see how many (how few) people were believing in him.
No body knew in 1996 when Rossi started his career that he will become 9 times world champion.

And why we are still feeding the troll guys, trust me its not even worth debating Bunyip.

you are certainly right about some people (even the other racers like, Lorenzo, Pedrossa, Stoner,... and all the others, also have these kind of FANS, Who deny the reality and cant see the success of rivals of their NR1.


it's obvious that you only follow a rider as long as he has the same nationallity with you, and you find it strenge that many british fans support Rossi over James Toseland, and you enjoy Vermeulen's race even more than Casey.

so for you it's more about the person and it's nationallity and not how he rides a bike or what results he achive.


you expect that fans respect and like all the riders the same as those who are always shining, and that can never be possible.

firstly because fans can never like all the riders the same, secondly every rider gets the amount of the fans that he deserves, and many of those bopers (none Itallian fans of Rossi
you mention about) can not care about the nationallity of a good rider.

It will always be like: the rider with more wins and championships gets more respect and fans, and it will never happen that most of the motogp fans rate Rossi and Stoner and Hayden the

same. and it will be actually an uncorrect choice. For example only some of Stoner's or Hayden's fans can rate them the same, because if we look at the facts (Numbers and

performances), we will see that as much as Casey and Hayden are very good rideres and have won races and a championship, they still have'nt done and proved themselves as much as

Rossi has done, and therefor we cant and should not compare them the same, unless they win a few more championships back to back and defence their championships with success and dominate motogp for a few years.


I,m not saying that all the other motogp riders are bad and only Vale is good, but i cant believe that anybody is better than him untill they beat him for most of the races for a few years.

I dont care for the nationallity of the riders, and try to enjoy their good moves and performances, and even i like Rossi more than the others but i get also mad and angry at him

when he does a stupid mistake like he did in a few races this year, or when he says a ........ thing in media.

and as far as i believe they are there for our/my enjoyment, and they race to make money and have fun and win races and championships. So if my NR1 does a stupid mistake, i will be

unhappy for a few minutes but i wont throw my weekend away for it, but if he shines i will enjoy it more.
for example when Rossi made a mistake and Lorenzo won that race, i wasnt as happy as when

Rossi won, but i was happy that championships got closer and said to myself, &^% Vale, he did a .... and Lorenzo deserve it.

try to enjoy the actions and overtakings and then you will see that the top riders like Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrossa, and .... are really the best ones in those actions and most consistant.

I,m not a Hayden's fan, but i love his overtakings around the outside very much, and when he drives side by side to another riders, it gives me a real exiting feeling, he rides like he doesn't

care and doesn't think about the corner in front of him. He goes with all his THINGS for it.

But i have'nt seen many things from Vermeulen, and after some years of motogp, he has to go back to superbike again, not good for his fans, but it will make the superbike championship more exiting to follow, so try to see the things from a different side too.


I have learnt one thing in following the race sports, and thats: if you dislike/hate a top racer who wins regularly races and championships, your giving yourself more pain by following that

sport, so you have to stop watching that sport or you have to try and not disliking those top runners.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rossiofsky @ Nov 22 2009, 03:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you are certainly right about some people (even the other racers like, Lorenzo, Pedrossa, Stoner,... and all the others, also have these kind of FANS, Who deny the reality and cant see the success of rivals of their NR1.


Rossi has done, and therefor we cant and should not compare them the same, unless they win a few more championships back to back and defence their championships with success and dominate motogp for a few years.


I,m not saying that all the other motogp riders are bad and only Vale is good, but i cant believe that anybody is better than him untill they beat him for most of the races for a few years.

I dont care for the nationallity of the riders, and try to enjoy their good moves and performances, and even i like Rossi more than the others but i get also mad and angry at him

when he does a stupid mistake like he did in a few races this year, or when he says a ........ thing in media.

and as far as i believe they are there for our/my enjoyment, and they race to make money and have fun and win races and championships. So if my NR1 does a stupid mistake, i will be

unhappy for a few minutes but i wont throw my weekend away for it, but if he shines i will enjoy it more.
for example when Rossi made a mistake and Lorenzo won that race, i wasnt as happy as when

But i have'nt seen many things from Vermeulen, and after some years of motogp, he has to go back to superbike again, not good for his fans, but it will make the superbike championship more exiting to follow, so try to see the things from a different side too.


I have learnt one thing in following the race sports, and thats: if you dislike/hate a top racer who wins regularly races and championships, your giving yourself more pain by following that

sport, so you have to stop watching that sport or you have to try and not disliking those top runners.
You still don't get it, as I probably don't get some of your point of view. I very rarely disagree with posts extolling rossi's virtues which I agree are manifold, but rather (from my point of view at least) reply to posts unfairly criticising stoner

I have abolutely no objection to people being rossi fans, he has given plenty of cause for them to be fans. I have few problems with rossi himself; whilst as ruthless on track as any of the greats who preceded him, as well as being an obvious genius in his chosen metier he is a charming, humorous and generally gracious individual. I don't expect anyone to rate stoner or any other rider his equal, let alone his better.

What does annoy non-rossi fans (this one anyway) is the constant belittling by an element of rossifandom of the achievements and character of pretty well any rider who dares to win a few races against valentino, let alone a world championship. Perhaps max and sete became bitter and twisted because of such treatment rather than being innately villainous . Going on casey's australian interviews with journalists with whom he perhaps felt more comfortable his championship win in 2007 was beyond his wildest dreams; his hope had been top five. I don't think he expected to be acclaimed to the degree you guys seem to believe he demanded, but I think he was surprised by how negative the reaction was, and has been embittered by this, and for someone not very articulate to start with the perhaps not unjustified belief that his every word will be dissected sometimes after mutiple translations to find negative connotations is I am sure daunting.

The fundamental argument by this element of rossi fandom is that valentino is so good that any victory over him is not a real victory but rather due to advantages possessed by the competitor. In truth this argument may have some validity in absolute terms, but lacks the grace rossi himself displays, and surely you must understand is galling to fans of other riders, to say nothing of the riders and teams themselves, particularly given the difficulty and hard endeavour necessary to achieve the odd and usually rare win over valentino, and in view of the fact that seeking bike/tyre/etc advantages is purportedly the aim of the sport.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 21 2009, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>WTF does that have to do with anything here??? 3 years ago dude! Since then he has been a favorite, less so now but still there........

Of course he was an underdog in early 07.....he hadn't really done anything previous in Motogp but crash and finish 8th, with two ok performances at Qatar and Turkey. With No 125 or 250 title to his name. Only his old man, Bridgestone and Ducati's engineers would have thought he could do what he did in 07.

Now (big surprise) you're being obtuse. Stoner was an underdog three years ago
and will in the minds of those who supported him then be considered a rider who
overcame his limitations such as they were. In 2005 nobody would have predicted
Hayden as a winner in 2006 and yet he won anyhow. Now he's again the underdog
- or at least one of many. Fans enjoy the idea that a perceived underachiever or a
rider lacking certain advantages, might beat the guys with ungodly talent and the
best equipment and the rider they root for doesn't lose that status when they win;
their underdog status just becomes that much more exalted. After all - folks don't
root for Hayden because they enjoy seeing him lose. They root for the guy because
it's heroic when they beat the odds.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 22 2009, 05:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The fundamental argument by this element of rossi fandom is that valentino is so good that any victory over him is not a real victory but rather due to advantages possessed by the competitor. In truth this argument may have some validity in absolute terms, but lacks the grace rossi himself displays, and surely you must understand is galling to fans of other riders, to say nothing of the riders and teams themselves, particularly given the difficulty and hard endeavour necessary to achieve the odd and usually rare win over valentino, and in view of the fact that seeking bike/tyre/etc advantages is purportedly the aim of the sport.

I hope you saw my fishing rod in my first post?

While I do believe Rossi is good enough to podium on any MotoGP race on any given day, I don't think he is good enough to win every race. If you look at the gigant treads that more than anything has defined me as a Rossi fan in discussion with Jumkie and others it has been the races where Rossi ended up off podium.
Some here seems to have a strong belief in changing "day form". "<rider> performed sub par/really bad today is a typical J statement.
I simply don't believe their personal performance on race day vary very much from race weekend to race weekend unless there are some serious underlying conditions. And more than anyone Rossi is the proof of that stability. Their personal performance can vary a little depending on preferences and motivation and they can be in a learning curve or they can crash out, but in general you see pretty stable performance on personal level. What does differentiate a lot is the state of their equipment.
That is everything from bike development, set up, tire (choice). Part of this reflect the rider and his (earlier choices but right now I talk soley about rider performance in the race, assuming he doesn't crash.
So I will continue to discuss with other Rossi fans when the results are not as expected and by this I will continue to piss off certain persons here on the forum. To them this is the ultimate insult, and ungraciously not acceptance of the defeat....
It's worth noting that they are always the first gloating at Rossi's result (pointing out the terrible performance) and celebrating the outstanding and brilliant performance of the winner or their favorite on the podium.
For the Rossi fans it's about finding reasons not excuses, after all, we "know" Rossi is good enough to podium so any deviation from that is an abnormality that must be found outside the rider. I believe the numbers give us a very strong support to assume he is good enough to podium at just about every race. So this is what I suppose piss off most people:
Either those well into the sport sure must be annoyed knowing by hart that race would have been different with Rossi in the fight. Some added fire from a careless Rossi booper get's the fire started.
Or those with stronger beliefs/less knowledge that gets annoyed by Rossi fans discussion what could have been or why it went wrong. They don't need help they set the house on fire by them selves and they do it frequently as seen by the post race monster treads.
Finally of course the category I believe you are in: Those who can fight the desire to shut those Rossi fans up, but only until the true boopers come along and belittle the winner both by degrading comments and by praising Rossi as the best regardless of anything.
I could easily be put into the later category of Rossi boopers if you take a look into the longer discussions here and thke things out of perspective, but I hope you will see that it was more in the heat of the moment than my original standpoint.


I'll be happy to discuss with you why I think Ducati had the advantage in '07 but so far none of the others debating this have been able to see that an equal time advantage on straights versus corners are in reality a strong advantage to the bike being faster on the straights. As long as this is not a mutual understanding and basis of any such handling vs speed discussions the discussion is pointless.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 22 2009, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The fundamental argument by this element of rossi fandom is that valentino is so good that any victory over him is not a real victory but rather due to advantages possessed by the competitor. In truth this argument may have some validity in absolute terms, but lacks the grace rossi himself displays, and surely you must understand is galling to fans of other riders, to say nothing of the riders and teams themselves, particularly given the difficulty and hard endeavour necessary to achieve the odd and usually rare win over valentino, and in view of the fact that seeking bike/tyre/etc advantages is purportedly the aim of the sport.

Good post.

Excuse me if I am redundant but you have elucidated (using a lot of words) something that's been
in the back of my mind for a long time, which is, that it's too bad that the Rossi-Elect aren't as
gracious in defeat as Rossi himself is. I remember an interview with Rossi where he said Stoner
rides like a God. But his fans are by and large incapable of the kind of sporting bonhomie exhibited
by their hero.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Nov 22 2009, 04:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I hope you saw my fishing rod in my first post?

While I do believe Rossi is good enough to podium on any MotoGP race on any given day, I don't think he is good enough to win every race. If you look at the gigant treads that more than anything has defined me as a Rossi fan in discussion with Jumkie and others it has been the races where Rossi ended up off podium.
Some here seems to have a strong belief in changing "day form". "<rider> performed sub par/really bad today is a typical J statement.
I simply don't believe their personal performance on race day vary very much from race weekend to race weekend unless there are some serious underlying conditions. And more than anyone Rossi is the proof of that stability. Their personal performance can vary a little depending on preferences and motivation and they can be in a learning curve or they can crash out, but in general you see pretty stable performance on personal level. What does differentiate a lot is the state of their equipment.
That is everything from bike development, set up, tire (choice). Part of this reflect the rider and his (earlier choices but right now I talk soley about rider performance in the race, assuming he doesn't crash.
So I will continue to discuss with other Rossi fans when the results are not as expected and by this I will continue to piss off certain persons here on the forum. To them this is the ultimate insult, and ungraciously not acceptance of the defeat....
It's worth noting that they are always the first gloating at Rossi's result (pointing out the terrible performance) and celebrating the outstanding and brilliant performance of the winner or their favorite on the podium.
For the Rossi fans it's about finding reasons not excuses, after all, we "know" Rossi is good enough to podium so any deviation from that is an abnormality that must be found outside the rider. I believe the numbers give us a very strong support to assume he is good enough to podium at just about every race. So this is what I suppose piss off most people:
Either those well into the sport sure must be annoyed knowing by hart that race would have been different with Rossi in the fight. Some added fire from a careless Rossi booper get's the fire started.
Or those with stronger beliefs/less knowledge that gets annoyed by Rossi fans discussion what could have been or why it went wrong. They don't need help they set the house on fire by them selves and they do it frequently as seen by the post race monster treads.
Finally of course the category I believe you are in: Those who can fight the desire to shut those Rossi fans up, but only until the true boopers come along and belittle the winner both by degrading comments and by praising Rossi as the best regardless of anything.
I could easily be put into the later category of Rossi boopers if you take a look into the longer discussions here and thke things out of perspective, but I hope you will see that it was more in the heat of the moment than my original standpoint.


I'll be happy to discuss with you why I think Ducati had the advantage in '07 but so far none of the others debating this have been able to see that an equal time advantage on straights versus corners are in reality a strong advantage to the bike being faster on the straights. As long as this is not a mutual understanding and basis of any such handling vs speed discussions the discussion is pointless.
I certainly don't include you among the element of rossi fandom to which I was referring and was not intending to start an argument with you. I perhaps differ from some of the "not primarily a rossi fan" posters on here in finding yours and j4rno's posts in particular knowledgeable and well argued; both of you also give or gave stoner credit when it is/was his due.

We had the discussion about the straight line speed advantage of the gp07 ducati being easier to employ than a handling advantage in 2007 and I agreed then and continue to do so now that you were correct. What I object to, and not from you that I can recall, is the lack of credit given to casey for managing to get the thing through the corners quickly enough to take advantage of the straight line advantage particularly when essentially all of the other riders who have attempted it have proved unable to do so, to the extent that they now seem to be making fundamental changes to the character of the engine.

Ducati and yamaha have had different design philosophies as they are entitled to, and I believe rossi wished to continue with yamaha's design philosophy even when stoner was on top in 2007, and events subsequently would seem to have proven him to be correct. Ducati went a more radical route possibly because they saw no other way of beating rossi; as I have said previously the bike was and is fast enough to win or stoner would not be able to win on it, but the winning still required something exceptional from stoner, the acknowledgement of which does not necessarily require any comparison with rossi.
(EDIT not in reference to comments by you, I generally don't have a problem except perhaps when unusually irritable with the praising of rossi as the best regardless of anything, just the belittling of other riders by degrading comments ).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Nov 21 2009, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Before you continue on your brave crusade may I ask: Where did I say you targeted the riders? I said Rossi annoyed the hell out of you, but as you say, you channel your anger towards us.
And by saying Rossi annoy you is not absolutely accurate. What really annoy you guys is that when your guy win (once or twice a year) and everything should be as in paradise the snake come along. It's in your head with that almost inaudible voice saying "it's only because Rossi were out of the podium fight" and then it is here as in the Rossi fans discussing why he didn't reach a podium, unless it was one of those dumb crashes he have now and then. Kills most of the joy soesn't it? Rossi is thousands of km away and can't hear you, but the Rossi fans sure as hell can hear you and you make sure they do if even the vaguest hint of what could have been comes up.

I,ve read this several times and I,m still trying to make sense of it. I want some of what you,re on.





Kidding...............must be a pretty wicked brew

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Nov 21 2009, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Now you are just trying to spin and argue just for the sake of an argument. You do hate all things good, thats why you root for the underdog all the time. You don't like the actual win of the underdog, but the lose of the better team/rider. Dont tell me I am wrong, thats why you will jump ship just because someone is an underdog. Cause you like to see others in misery. Of course I enjoy a good upset, but here is the catch. I only like the upset when I am a fan of the rider. Like Nicky in Indy for example, I was bummed for a quick second when vale went down. But then realizing what it did for Nicky's chances. You should of seen how gitty we were in our suite rooting on an underdog. The reason why my posts are full of hate, because you started a thread with no other intent but to disrespect Rossi, the king, the godfather if you will. Learn some respect for christ sake! You are the definition if a hater.

And rooting for casey is not rooting for an underdog, he has the chance to win everytime he is on track. Just like Rossi, Hoergey, and pedders(I guess).


I,m unable to support anybody who is not an underdog.............and then next paragraph you say by supporting Stoner, I am not supporting an underdog????????????

I think , that when working at debating a particular point, it is best to adopt a consistent approach.

You and Babel are made for each other.......with each of your unique insights into facts and logical discussion a certain synergy and co-supportive understanding may be very likely. Indecipherable to the rest of us, but intuitive between you two.

PS> Mudlub........I am still waiting to hear about all my spelling mistakes. It seems that this is an example of you making bold accusations and not backing them up. Is this a habit of yours.

And.....I don,t know where all this "hate" seems to be. I enjoy all the riders and the way they all contribute to the great spectacle. The Rossi boppers seem to be the ones that want to demonise the other riders that dare to challenge him. I, and other CS fans spend much of our time supporting CS when we feel he has been unfairly criticised. Where is all of my Rossi criticism? I mentioned that he his a master manipulator, (that has been covered in depth by Jumkie)- that is all. I have always praised his talent and achievements.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Nov 23 2009, 02:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I,m unable to support anybody who is not an underdog.............and then next paragraph you say by supporting Stoner, I am not supporting an underdog????????????

I think , that when working at debating a particular point, it is best to adopt a consistent approach.

You and Babel are made for each other.......with each of your unique insights into facts and logical discussion a certain synergy and co-supportive understanding may be very likely. Indecipherable to the rest of us, but intuitive between you two.

PS> Mudlub........I am still waiting to hear about all my spelling mistakes. It seems that this is an example of you making bold accusations and not backing them up. Is this a habit of yours.

And.....I don,t know where all this "hate" seems to be. I enjoy all the riders and the way they all contribute to the great spectacle. The Rossi boppers seem to be the ones that want to demonise the other riders that dare to challenge him. I, and other CS fans spend much of our time supporting CS when we feel he has been unfairly criticised. Where is all of my Rossi criticism? I mentioned that he his a master manipulator, (that has been covered in depth by Jumkie)- that is all. I have always praised his talent and achievements.


Your just spinning around in circles now. Read all your post and notice how inconsistent they are. So you agree then that stoner is not an underdog. Thats why I contradicted myself, you were stating that he was an underdog, which he is not. So we agree on that.

As for the spelling issue, I am not your mammy or your school teacher. I told you about the spell check you can go back and find them for yourself. But trust me english, american, or australian your spelling is .....

Like is said you want to find your "hate." Read your own posts from the beginning, and you will see.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Nov 23 2009, 02:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Rossi boppers seem to be the ones that want to demonise the other riders that dare to challenge him. I, and other CS fans spend much of our time supporting CS when we feel he has been unfairly criticised. Where is all of my Rossi criticism? I mentioned that he his a master manipulator, (that has been covered in depth by Jumkie)- that is all. I have always praised his talent and achievements.

You started this thread not a bopper, with no other intent but to clown rossi. So dont feed me that .......... You should change the thread heading to Bumdip- a serial anal addict.

just got shipment..

8455:troll_spray.jpg]

So you agree then that stoner is not an underdog. Thats why I contradicted myself, you were stating that he was an underdog, which he is not. So we agree on that. Quote Mudflaps

I,m sorry if I develop discussion points that make you contradict yourself. Hilarious

For about the fourth time you fail to identify the so called spelling mistakes. A trivial matter, but enough for you to label me a 5 year old. Have you no integrity? I think you have lost ALL credibility here.


Curve, as usual, adds as much constructive comment as he is capable of.
Some people see trolls when their comfort zone is threatened by truth
Other people, like Arrabbiata, Michael and Andy Roo ,have made constructive comments in response.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 22 2009, 05:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You still don't get it, as I probably don't get some of your point of view. I very rarely disagree with posts extolling rossi's virtues which I agree are manifold, but rather (from my point of view at least) reply to posts unfairly criticising stoner

I have abolutely no objection to people being rossi fans, he has given plenty of cause for them to be fans. I have few problems with rossi himself; whilst as ruthless on track as any of the greats who preceded him, as well as being an obvious genius in his chosen metier he is a charming, humorous and generally gracious individual. I don't expect anyone to rate stoner or any other rider his equal, let alone his better.

What does annoy non-rossi fans (this one anyway) is the constant belittling by an element of rossifandom of the achievements and character of pretty well any rider who dares to win a few races against valentino, let alone a world championship. Perhaps max and sete became bitter and twisted because of such treatment rather than being innately villainous . Going on casey's australian interviews with journalists with whom he perhaps felt more comfortable his championship win in 2007 was beyond his wildest dreams; his hope had been top five. I don't think he expected to be acclaimed to the degree you guys seem to believe he demanded, but I think he was surprised by how negative the reaction was, and has been embittered by this, and for someone not very articulate to start with the perhaps not unjustified belief that his every word will be dissected sometimes after mutiple translations to find negative connotations is I am sure daunting.

The fundamental argument by this element of rossi fandom is that valentino is so good that any victory over him is not a real victory but rather due to advantages possessed by the competitor. In truth this argument may have some validity in absolute terms, but lacks the grace rossi himself displays, and surely you must understand is galling to fans of other riders, to say nothing of the riders and teams themselves, particularly given the difficulty and hard endeavour necessary to achieve the odd and usually rare win over valentino, and in view of the fact that seeking bike/tyre/etc advantages is purportedly the aim of the sport.




As i said in my last comment, you are right about some of Rossi fans, who does that and deny his rivals wins and glory,But that's not how all his fans see that and again as i said, that same thing happens by fans of other riders. many Fans of all riders excuse and give reasons for the lost races.

I know that it gives a negative and bad feeling to fans of the other riders, but you/we can't change that, untill those fans come to the point that it's not like that.


You wrote in your post : Italians that back Rossi- I have no issues with them; but non-Italian Rossi fans I treat with a lot of suspicion. And a hell of a lot of them are Brits. Even when Toseland was racing, he got little support from most Brits. He wasn,t giving them much joy was he?


This gives me the impression that we should only support the riders with the same nationality as ourselves. While i believe that a wise fan does'nt look at how a rider looks like or where he comes

from, and he enjoys the performance of a good rider without feeling ashamed for anything or anybody.

I cant help me to dislike some of Rossi's talks, but i enjoy his racees and not his talks.
(or at least those negative talks)

like when he said about Honda: if me or Casey were in Honda team, then Honda could be a winner with this bike. (even if that was a reality he didn't have to say it), or a lot of other things he has said.

So you think everybody who comes from Italy and like Rossi's race, it's ok, and none of them could be a Boper, but all none Italian fans of him are Bopers.

That's what i find strenge.

You wrote in your post : Italians that back Rossi- I have no issues with them; but non-Italian Rossi fans I treat with a lot of suspicion. And a hell of a lot of them are Brits. Even when Toseland was racing, he got little support from most Brits. He wasn,t giving them much joy was he?


This gives me the impression that we should only support the riders with the same nationality as ourselves. While i believe that a wise fan does'nt look at how a rider looks like or where he comes

from, and he enjoys the performance of a good rider without feeling ashamed for anything or anybody.

I cant help me to dislike some of Rossi's talks, but i enjoy his racees and not his talks.
(or at least those negative talks)

like when he said about Honda: if me or Casey were in Honda team, then Honda could be a winner with this bike. (even if that was a reality he didn't have to say it), or a lot of other things he has said.

So you think everybody who comes from Italy and like Rossi's race, it's ok, and none of them could be a Boper, but all none Italian fans of him are Bopers.

That's what i find strenge.

Good points, and you caught me out not expressing myself as well as I might. It is very true that there is no reason why a motorcycling fan should only support his countryman. It is, in most situations, highly admirable and reduces xenophobic tendencies. I have suspicions of motive when the favoured rider is top dog and when a rider from the fans home country is competing.
It is my observation that a high percentage of British fans have too quickly discarded Toseland and latched onto the Rossi bandwagon. These same fans seem to be some of the most strident critics of Casey Stoner and other non-Rossi competitors on internet sites like MCN and Crashnet,
as well as at British GPs. Arrabbiata mentioned the poor displays by British crowds following a Pedrosa victory at Donnington. Casey has also been unfairly and very harshly treated at similar events. I just don,t see the same level of CS criticism by American fans (Mudcurve is an exception)., Perhaps it is because they are fimiliar with the nonsense written about Nicky Hayden following his unexpected victory over VR in 2006. I am a little surprised that there is little public American support for Colin Edwards. Is it because Nicky won the title and Colin hasn,t. Or is it because Colin seems to accept the fact that 5th is the best he can do, but Nicky (perhaps because he has already been there) gives the impression that he will never give up trying to be on top again. Perhaps some Americans could put some light on this? New thread?

PS. Rossiofsky, I hope for Michaels sake ,you are not confusing him with me. His opinions are far more measured and politically correct than mine.
Is it too late to enter the diplomatic corps Michael?