Rossi vs. Stoner (not a troll thread, promise...)

[tps7c]

So I went looking for some heads up racing, Rossi vs. Stoner, and somehow came across this:

 

[WVMotoGP99]

Maybe not a troll post, but it was a poke at the hornets nest. Which is not the worst thing I have seen on this site.


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[Barbedwirebikerr]

incomparable.

 

[tps7c]

Maybe not a troll post, but it was a poke at the hornets nest. Which is not the worst thing I have seen on this site.


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I knew this would produce a spirited discussion, no doubt.

 

[povol]

I knew this would produce a spirited discussion, no doubt.

Do a head to head

 

[tps7c]

Do a head to head

I didn't make that graphic. It was on a site where they were discussing Rossi vs. Stoner. but since you asked:

the numbers, for 2006 - 2010

Stoner
Starts 83
Wins 23
Podiums 43
Poles 22
Fastest Laps 20
Points Scored 1211

Rossi
Starts 84
Wins 26
Podiums 58
Poles 19
Fastest Laps 20
Points Scored 1400

 

[povol]

I didn't make that graphic. It was on a site where they were discussing Rossi vs. Stoner. but since you asked:

the numbers, for 2006 - 2010

Stoner
Starts 83
Wins 23
Podiums 43
Poles 22
Fastest Laps 20
Points Scored 1211

Rossi
Starts 84
Wins 26
Podiums 58
Poles 19
Fastest Laps 20
Points Scored 1400

How convenient of you to leave out 2011 and 2012

 

[povol]

Here we go, and this includes Stoners Rookie season a satellite bike and 3ed rate tires while Rossi was getting SNS on a factory bike.

If you throw in 2012 numbers, its really lopsided

 

[yamfan]

Stoner started MotoGP as a satellite rider on second tier Michelin tyres I believe.
Rossi went in onto a factory NSR (the Yamaha M1 of its time) and top tier tyres. He has never seen a satellite bike in the premier class.
I don't suppose you'd be keen to put up a head to head comparison whilst both were on factory machines?

 

[Gaz]

Win percentages in Motorcycle GrandsPrix?

Surtees - 76%
Agostini - 66%
Doohan - 39%
Marquez - 39%
Rossi - 34%
Lorenzo - 27%
Stoner - 26%
Rainey - 25%
Schwantz - 24%


As at 2010 season end, VR was 44% or thereabouts. A few tough years, increased competition and two Ducati years seem to have harmed the figure

 

[povol]

Stoner started MotoGP as a satellite rider on second tier Michelin tyres I believe.
Rossi went in onto a factory NSR (the Yamaha M1 of its time) and top tier tyres. He has never seen a satellite bike in the premier class.
I don't suppose you'd be keen to put up a head to head comparison whilst both were on factory machines?

If you do factory machines only head to head its really ugly

Stoner 38 wins
Rossi 18 wins

Stoner 39 poles
Rossi 19 poles

 

[yamfan]

If you do factory machines only head to head its really ugly

Stoner 38 wins
Rossi 18 wins

Stoner 39 poles
Rossi 19 poles

Ouch, he definitely doesn't want to see that then.
The goat indeed LOL
Anyone remember the donkey ears?

 

[michaelm]

Ouch, he definitely doesn't want to see that then.
The goat indeed LOL
Anyone remember the donkey ears?

I already posted this on the wrong thread, but why not compare their respective first 2 years at Ducati?

 

[Jumkie]

I already posted this on the wrong thread, but why not compare their respective first 2 years at Ducati?

I need to look up Stoner's stats, but for now here are Rossi's win total:

0.

Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)

 

[JPSLotus]

Stupid topic overall.

What's really interesting is this Crash.net article from 2005 about Stoner...

Two key members of the factory Yamaha team - Valentino Rossi's team-mate Colin Edwards and the Italian's legendary crew chief Jerry Burgess - are backing rising Australian star Casey Stoner for MotoGP.

Fellow Australian Burgess, who left Honda with Rossi after previously guiding the likes of Mick Doohan and Wayne Gardner to world title success, has even declared that he would hand 19-year-old Stoner a MotoGP machine for next year if he could.

"I'd like to be able to say to Casey Stoner, here's a bike for next year," Australia's The Age reports Burgess as saying. "If I had a wish list, that would be one of the wishes I'd want."

Stoner - currently second in the 250cc World Championship - has won four races so far this season and currently sits 26-points behind defending world champion Dani Pedrosa, who is due to replace Max Biaggi at Repsol Honda next season, with three rounds go and 75 points remaining.

But - despite the points deficit - momentum is firmly on Stoner's side, with the Aprilia rider having won the last two races while Pedrosa fell in Malaysia and then took a mere fourth place finish last time out at Qatar.

"I've said to Casey, irrespective of what's going on, you've still got to concentrate on getting the best results out of 2005," said Burgess. "Any team wanting a rider in MotoGP would be looking at all those guys performing in the 250 class."

JB's encouraging words follow hot on the heels of similar comments by Edwards, who recently revealed that he'd spoken to Yamaha about hiring Stoner.

"I don't want to start any rumours but I've had a word with Yamaha about Casey myself," Edwards said. "I've put in a good word for him. I think anybody at this time would be crazy not to consider Casey for a MotoGP ride."

The ultimate decision on Yamaha's 2006 line-up rests with racing director Lin Jarvis, the man who successfully led negotiations for Rossi's move from Honda during 2003.

It is not yet known how many Yamahas will be in MotoGP next season, with rumours surrounding a new one man Rossi team and the possible termination of Yamaha support for the satellite Tech 3 outfit.

Kind of sad when you think about how everything turned out...Burgess and Edwards both wanted Stoner in the 2nd Yamaha seat. Rossi killed that completely because he was a chickenshit. Stoner on that M1 is a great what if scenario...and he would have won since he'd have had access to the Saturday Night Specials instead of the third tier tires LCR got stuck with. Even worse is when you consider Burgess' disparaging remarks towards Casey underachieving on the Ducati.

 

[Jumkie]

Stupid topic overall.

What's really interesting is this Crash.net article from 2005 about Stoner...



Kind of sad when you think about how everything turned out...Burgess and Edwards both wanted Stoner in the 2nd Yamaha seat. Rossi killed that completely because he was a chickenshit. Stoner on that M1 is a great what if scenario...and he would have won since he'd have had access to the Saturday Night Specials instead of the third tier tires LCR got stuck with. Even worse is when you consider Burgess' disparaging remarks towards Casey underachieving on the Ducati.

So many examples of Rossi the coward.

It goes to show you how most people glory hunt towards results without meaning. They think by association of the record it somehow reflects on them, the irony being, it does.

 

[JPSLotus]

So many examples of Rossi the coward.

It goes to show you how most people glory hunt towards results without meaning. They think by association of the record it somehow reflects on them, the irony being, it does.

Exactly.

Blocking Casey from riding at Yamaha for 2006 is exactly why Rossi can NEVER be considered better or a GOAT.

He shied away from all challenges in his career, or sought to misrepresent the inability to overcome said challenge as not being his fault. Sepang 2015 was the most recent challenge he faced, and turned into a coward when faced with the challenge of actually having to race someone.

 

[WVMotoGP99]

Exactly.



Blocking Casey from riding at Yamaha for 2006 is exactly why Rossi can NEVER be considered better or a GOAT.



He shied away from all challenges in his career, or sought to misrepresent the inability to overcome said challenge as not being his fault. Sepang 2015 was the most recent challenge he faced, and turned into a coward when faced with the challenge of actually having to race someone.

So his 5 'ships in a row means nothing? Don't recall Casey doing that? (I know he had special tires and everyone else was riding ten speeds blind folded, etc.. etc..)

Not a Rossi bopper by any means, (and not a Stoner Boner either), but also not going to take away a person achievement because how I personally feel about him, even thou I do think he is possibly a huge mega ....... (But, I also bet out of all the riders he is the most fun to drink a beer with.)

Is Rossi THE GOAT of all times? The GOATness of all GOATs? That is easily debatable, and in my opinion probably not. But, at the end of the day, I would bet in most opinions on this forum, GP fans across the globe and GP writers in general would put him closer to that GOAT point than Stoner.

Some of that is due to Stoner hanging it up boots so early. That was Stoners choice and more power to him. He had every right and if that made his life better, made him happy, I am glad for him, but by doing so, he pretty much took himself out of consideration of top GOAT on the GOAT pyramid.

Of course.. One mans opinion, so you always have that.

 

[Gaz]

So his 5 'ships in a row means nothing? Don't recall Casey doing that? (I know he had special tires and everyone else was riding ten speeds blind folded, etc.. etc..)

Not a Rossi bopper by any means, (and not a Stoner Boner either), but also not going to take away a person achievement because how I personally feel about him, even thou I do think he is possibly a huge mega ....... (But, I also bet out of all the riders he is the most fun to drink a beer with.)

Miller/Crutchlow

I reckon when they got on the drink it would be serious party time

 

[michaelm]

So his 5 'ships in a row means nothing? Don't recall Casey doing that? (I know he had special tires and everyone else was riding ten speeds blind folded, etc.. etc..)

Not a Rossi bopper by any means, (and not a Stoner Boner either), but also not going to take away a person achievement because how I personally feel about him, even thou I do think he is possibly a huge mega ....... (But, I also bet out of all the riders he is the most fun to drink a beer with.)

Is Rossi THE GOAT of all times? The GOATness of all GOATs? That is easily debatable, and in my opinion probably not. But, at the end of the day, I would bet in most opinions on this forum, GP fans across the globe and GP writers in general would put him closer to that GOAT point than Stoner.

Some of that is due to Stoner hanging it up boots so early. That was Stoners choice and more power to him. He had every right and if that made his life better, made him happy, I am glad for him, but by doing so, he pretty much took himself out of consideration of top GOAT on the GOAT pyramid.

Of course.. One mans opinion, so you always have that.

Despite being one of the biggest Stoner fans on here (I can't say the biggest on a forum of which JPS is a member), I basically completely agree with you in regard to both there not being a GOAT and that Stoner is not in the conversation with those between whom it is impossible to differentiate, the likes of Hailwood, Lawson, Rainey, Rossi etc; Stoner himself wore a T shirt on one occasion that had been printed with a fairly good list. I would not have brought him into this discussion myself as I said, nor MM at this stage of his career.

If you want to talk FOAT/ fastest of all time I think both Stoner and MM are on the list, along with riders such as Freddie Spencer, and they have both had individual seasons up with the best, including several such seasons from Rossi of course.