No, his style is completely wrong. Mind you, he rode the Derbi, which was ...., so that helps.
I do think Dani could podium on the Ducati though. His style works on it.
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No, his style is completely wrong. Mind you, he rode the Derbi, which was ...., so that helps.
I do think Dani could podium on the Ducati though. His style works on it.
This assumes that Ducati can distinguish between the humerus and the anus. There has not been much evidence of that recently. Or ever.
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would you say that the 2012 ducati is anything like the 2007-2011 desmo?i'd have thought its now completely different, although the patient still shows the same symptoms...
interesting that you mention pedrosa, no doubt hes trying some of what caseys been doing
interesting that you mention pedrosa, no doubt hes trying some of what caseys been doing
Exactly.
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Good post.
I'd add that I care much more for Ducati's future than Rossi's (whose best future is already behind his shoulders anyway, and wasn't bad).
To those who seem to enjoy disparaging Ducati in this difficult period, I'd say: try building a competitive MotoGP engine that will last for three race weekends and go from start to finish with 21 liters. Suzuki didn't manage it, and then retired.
It's a fact that Ducati excels at making GP engines, their problem is putting a modern GP chassis together and make it work with that engine and the given tires. They are (Preziosi is) too engine-centric.
If I was them I would do like Renault in F1, sell engines to teams. One of those CRT teams could even solve the problem of designing a working chassis around the L4 desmo -- who knows...
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I nearly agree, I think that Lorenzo and the Yamaha are too in tune, Yamaha still won't have fully forgiven Rossi for leaving them and he won't get a better bike (which is what he left for - Lorenzo demanding and getting equal equipment). It will be a Yamaha 1-2 next year and I hope Rossi is humble enough to congratulate Lorenzo properly this time instead of accusing him of theft like last time.
Ok i'm gonna lay it out there.
Hector Barbera 2013 MotoGP champ, on a CRT. Yep he's gonna blow them away and show everyone he is the true GOAT
Why not? If the field closes up that much Stoner might come back.
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What a load of crap. Ducati hired a rider and a crew. The development genius, Fusawara retired. Ducati tried to hire him but he declined. Stop perpetuating this ridiculous myth.
Sorry, I forgot that Yamaha hired Rossi/Burgess b/c neither of them had ever won a championship without Furusawa. How silly of me to overlook something so obvious.
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Lets analyse that.
2001 Rossi won on a fully developed 500 that was right at the end of its development life. On 2 strokes sure the crew chief has a big input and Burgess had a many championships under his belt. But Honda has made it perfectly clear over the years that they develop the bike and the rider rides it.
Moving on:
2002/3 Rossi rode the bike that Honda had developed. Nothing to do with Rossi. I hope you are not going to claim that Rossi & Burgess had ANY knowledge of 4 stroke race bikes now.
2004 Rossi turns up and selects from several chassis and several engine configurations that had already been developed by Yamaha & Furusawa most like from feedback from Biaggi. Once again absolutely no development input from Rossi or Burgess.
2007 Possibly the only time in his career that Rossi had development input into a bike and it was completely outgunned by Ducati. It also had big chatter problems and was considered to be a flawed bike. Significant changes were required. This was after Rossi & Edwards heaped praise on the bike at pre-season testing. Then whinged when they realised how wrong they had got it.
2011 Arrive at Ducati after smack talking Stoner and completely failed to make any head way with the bike. Completely failed to get the bike into its sweet spot, which it has, and Stoner and his crew were able to achieve many times.
2012 Yamaha produce the best bike on the grid and win a WC without any input from Burgess or Rossi.
I think the case against Rossi & Burgess being master bike developers is stronger than the case for it.
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No.
Goatboy
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Never mind the continued development, never mind the change between 2004 & 2005. Never mind that the Yam didn't work in the wet, & that there was a period mid season that before further updates it didn't work.
Never mind that you have confused the problems of the 2006 Yam with the problems of the 2007 Yam. Never mind that the chatter was the 2006 bike & that the lack of power was the 2007 problem. Never mind about the revolution in that bike into 2008.
& Never mind that Ducati don't have the inferstructre to compete with the Japanese.
I full expect any point I have to now be buried underneath accusations that I believe the Burgess & Rossi built all the bikes themselves by hand in their back garden. Y'know though, it's quite something to dismiss their input into all of their teams.
Oh and of course, never mind what Furusawa has said with regard to their input.
The only way Rossi would beat Lorenzo would be if good old uncle Carmello weaves more of his influence. And sure, Yamaha may have let him come crawling back, but I can't see them giving "special" treatment to Vale over Jorge. Jorge has improved leaps and bounds since their previous days as team mates. Jorge rode an incredible season and seemed to walk the championship, in my opinion. I don't think Rossi is showing humility or false modesty when he says he doesn't know how he will go compared to Jorge and Dani. I think, deep down inside he knows those two guys easily have him covered. The sport has moved on. Rossi has achieved a lot. I know there is strong debate as to whether Rossi earned all those titles, or he was seriously aided by Dorna's help. But all that aside, he has displayed some great riding and shown remarkable determination over the years. But, those days are over. Everyone gets old. And motorcycle riders probably age the quickest. All the best to him anyway...
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As i remember it mid 2007 Rossi was demanding Yamaha make him a V4. Relations between Furusawa and Rossi were said to become strained.
Furusawa, his job on the line, risked it all by sticking with the I4 and developing pnuematic valves. It subsequently blew up a couple of times. If it failed again in 2008 no doubt the development genious Furusawa would have joined Michelin on the scrap heap. Ironic he was called to help Ducati, but no surprise he turned Rossi down and gave support to Prezi.
Since that time the Yamaha I4 has won 4 championships.
By comparison Rossi finally got his V4 in 2011 and won nil. Should have stuck with the carbon chasis, just like the I4, it had potential. As arab would say cue ironic sniggers from the 'lesser' riders and crew chiefs who dont get the benefit of truck loads of parts made for them to choose from, not to mention all the satelight riders over the years who have been told to shut up and ride a second rate bike, sent to the shrink, or sent off to SBK.
Furusawa, his job on the line, risked it all by sticking with the I4 and developing pnuematic valves. It subsequently blew up a couple of times. If it failed again in 2008 no doubt the development genious Furusawa would have joined Michelin on the scrap heap. Ironic he was called to help Ducati, but no surprise he turned Rossi down and gave support to Prezi.
Since that time the Yamaha I4 has won 4 championships.
By comparison Rossi finally got his V4 in 2011 and won nil. Should have stuck with the carbon chasis, just like the I4, it had potential. As arab would say cue ironic sniggers from the 'lesser' riders and crew chiefs who dont get the benefit of truck loads of parts made for them to choose from, not to mention all the satelight riders over the years who have been told to shut up and ride a second rate bike, sent to the shrink, or sent off to SBK.
Goatboy
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You're gonna have to back that up, because the way I remember it he was calling for pneumatics. & I can't find anything after a search to suggest otherwise. There are plenty old posts on forums re the pneumatics but none re V4.
Furusawa's job was never on the line, that's ridiculous.
Mental, I read your post on Krop's site about how this situation was a lose-lose for Ducati b/c the fans would give Rossi all of the credit, and the fans would give Ducati all of the blame. Yes, very nice observation, but reality is not reactionary sentiments to unjust bopperisms. It is possible that Ducati could fail to build a bike that turns, despite Burgess/Rossi input, and Boppers could reach the correct conclusion about who is to blame, despite blindly judging the situation. You have merely looked at the heinous abuse of reasonable thought by the Boppers, and then concluded for moralistic reasons that Boppers should be wrong no matter how perversely the facts must be twisted.
Rossi/Burgess are a competent development duo with numerous championships, and Ducati knew as much after being beaten in 2008, which is why Ducati hired them. By all reasonable accounts, the Ducati has never been a rider-friendly machine after tire prototyping was limited and controlled, and Stoner was riding the Desmo well beyond its limits, which makes his accomplishments even more astounding.
The Boppers are right about Ducati for the wrong reasons. You should let it be.
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Very fair question.
Many (maybe most) of the top riders are groomed on top equipment. Therefore, it seems understandable that a switch to the likes of a big bad Duke wouldn't be workable. Perhaps one of the reasons why Stoner was so successful was because he came through the ranks the hard way and had to make do with the equipment available to him the best he could. Sure, the 2007 Duke was fast, but was still a ....... to ride. His youth, courage (maybe recklessness), and talent was probably the right mix for this bike at the right time. I doubt Casey would win a championship on the Duke again - circumstances are different and many things have changed since then (see Lexicon's post on page 2). Therefore, I doubt Jorge would make it work either. I think Jorge is an intelligent tactical rider that is very much in harmony with his current machine. Putting his balls on the line every race on an unpredictable Ducati wouldn't suit his style, in my opinion. I think Vale's failure at Ducati was for the same reason - too used to the best. Plus he's been riding a lot longer and it would be almost impossible to change old habits. Not to mention he doesn't have the reckless youth of a 21 year old.
I doubt anyone will win a championship on a true Ducati again - as Ducati bikes may adopt more Japanese characteristics which Burgess and Rossi have started to implement...
Goatboy
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I stand happily corrected, it was 5 years ago. Doesn't really change the speculative element however.
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Ha ha thats a classic. Rossi the engineer called for pnuematic valves! Cmon man be reasonable. Rossi saw Stoner had a V4 that he couldnt beat without a gun and demanded the same.
The pneumatic engine blew up at Misano in 2007. Rossi was pissed and wanted nothing more to do with it. Furusawa knew a V4 wasnt the solution, but futher failure would have made him the next Prezi.
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Is that how it went? I thought Ducati made offers to both Lorenzo and Pedro in 2009. Stoner left in 2010, then finally Rossi went to Ducati not because either he or they thought they needed a radical overhaul to develop a race winner. Rossi went to Ducati because he thought it was a ready made race winner that only required a few tweeks here and there.
