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Rossi making moves against Jarvis

michaelm said:
Stoner was never going to ride into his thirties because of injuries, and I doubt MM will, he will need to surpass Rossi in his twenties imo.

Whatever my opinion of some aspects of Rossi as a gp bike rider, his freedom from injuries which does largely come down to his skill and riding style and physical resilience/toughness extending into his late thirties is quite remarkable. I leave out mental toughness because while Rossi has that to a remarkable degree, even so I believe MM has him covered and is unlikely to lose that.
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I wouldn't be surprised to see MM riding in his 30s. I think that's become the new normal. In theory, an injury free Marquez could be reasonably expected to surpass Rossi's golden years achievements, if only because he started training at an early age, which Rossi did not. It should make it easier to maintain good muscle tone, and body weight as he ages. Also a stronger immune system. It's really a question of whether he'll continue to be motivated.
 
Keshav said:
I wouldn't be surprised to see MM riding in his 30s. I think that's become the new normal. In theory, an injury free Marquez could be reasonably expected to surpass Rossi's golden years achievements, if only because he started training at an early age, which Rossi did not. It should make it easier to maintain good muscle tone, and body weight as he ages. Also a stronger immune system. It's really a question of whether he'll continue to be motivated.
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Sure, I don’t doubt would do the physical work/training, just that he would stay as free from injury as Rossi largely has even pushing 40, given his radical riding style which is a large reason for his edge. I can’t see him continuing to make the saves he constantly does until he is 40.
 
synn said:
Rossi, Lorenzo and even Dovi are not going to get on their bikes believing Marquez is their better. No top tier rider does. If they do, they won’t be racing anymore.

Of course, Kurryfart, who finishes 31st in a 28 strong grid would know better.
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As was pointed out to me recently, even though you can’t admit publically a rider is your superior, you’re not going to wave your 10 million dollar a year contract and stay home. Danilo may not be a tier one rider but he recently said
“Marquez is a step above the rest of the riders in MotoGP as he can offer ’something more’. Petrucci said “Marquez has something more than the rest as a rider… Marquez will monopolise the championship in the coming years. He does not seem to have any fear of falling”
 
Keshav said:
I’ve said it numerous times before - that as a geezer, I’d applaud a well won championship by Rossi.
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I wanted Jorge to win in 2015, partly to disprove denigration of him as having wrecked the Yamaha with his development direction by Rossi fans on another forum, but would have been happy to give full credit to Rossi had the season continued as it had prior to the late season turnaround and consequent shenanigans. He would probably have won significantly by outriding Lorenzo in a higher than usual number of wet or mixed condition races, but the conditions are the same for all and he didn’t make it rain.

I am actually fine with his approach for most of this season, but I think it would probably take an injury for him to beat MM now, MM isn’t going to throw it down the road 6 times in a season again, which I would obviously not like to see, and I still resent the booing of great riders.
 
michaelm said:
Sure, I don’t doubt would do the physical work/training, just that he would stay as free from injury as Rossi largely has even pushing 40, given his radical riding style which is a large reason for his edge. I can’t see him continuing to make the saves he constantly does until he is 40.
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I suspect the new generation of airbag leathers will help immensely.
 
SlartyBartFast said:
Rossi is absolutely betting on a Marquez injury. He knows it's his only hope, and isn't actually such a bad bet this year. Next year however, he will have to lift his game.
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Yeah, judging by Lorenzo's growth as a rider and Ducati's ability to adapt, the competition may be getting even tougher. While it appears that Rossi is still ahead of the field, I will raise my contention that the point system slants the states toward finishing rather than competing for the win. It didn't look like MM could beat the Ducs this weekend, and that is not a good sign for Rossi or any Yamaha.
 
Keshav said:
What age they were when MM arrived and what age Rossi is, have no bearing whatsoever on the reality that Rossi has been very consistently beaten since MM arrived and MM goes from strength to strength while Rossi, while impressive for his age, is continually the bridesmaid and hasn't won a championship in years. These are not statistics which can be rigged to mean whatever sophist thing suits your narrative. These are the plain facts and no matter how much you like him, you can't spin the facts which are right in plain sight. Marquez wins races and championships while Rossi at best is runner up. Being the winner is by definition what makes MM the better rider in the here and now and Rossi must know that. The man is not deluded. When Stoner was dominating Rossi knew it and spoke to it, saying "Stoner, he ride like a God". He acknowledged a better rider then, what makes you think he would be in denial now?
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Saying that your rival is riding like a god, is a way of saying "just watch how I can beat a god". That's the intention at least. it's not guaranteed to work out at all times, but that's the attitude. This applies to all champions, not just to Rossi.
 
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p4p1 said:
So Rossi was around the same age as Biaggi and Gibernau when they were Rossi's greatest rivals, Doohan was still dominating and Ago won his last championship when Marquez came into the top class.
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Yes, and in fact Biaggi and Gibernau could never defeat young Rossi for a championship, and Ago and Doohan both won their last title at 33.
And in his last season Doohan was seriously challenged by a younger rider called Criville, who wasn't exactly a Marquez. ;)
 
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J4rn0 said:
Yes, and in fact Biaggi and Gibernau could never defeat young Rossi for a championship, and Ago and Doohan both won their last title at 33.
And in his last season Doohan was seriously challenged by a younger rider called Criville, who wasn't exactly a Marquez. ;)
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No he wasn’t.

The “what if’s” were mostly about Biaggi iirc (I am not sure why, it was never in doubt from my point of view watching the season), but the facts are that he beat Biaggi by 52 points and Criville by 62 in 1998, the year he turned 33, a season in which he had 3 retirements/dnfs. All his titles were of course on one leg after nearly losing the other one, as opposed to Valentino who has remained commendably mostly healthy, a testament to his skill and intelligence and the longevity of his riding style as I have said.

I think Valentino is better than Ago and probably better than Doohan, and also that it is not unreasonable to extrapolate that Rossi riding as he does now with 25 year old reflexes would be faster, but you can’t take those late career titles won by Ago and Doohan away from them, and Rossi himself seems to have been chasing the 8th title which was Ago’s crowning achievement rather avidly for almost a decade now.
 
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michaelm said:
No he wasn’t.

The “what if’s” were mostly about Biaggi iirc (I am not sure why, it was never in doubt from my point of view watching the season), but the facts are that he beat Biaggi by 52 points and Criville by 62 in 1998, the year he turned 33, a season in which he had 3 retirements/dnfs. All his titles were of course on one leg after nearly losing the other one, as opposed to Valentino who has remained commendably mostly healthy, a testament to his skill and intelligence and the longevity of his riding style as I have said.

I think Valentino is better than Ago and probably better than Doohan, and also that it is not unreasonable to extrapolate that Rossi riding as he does now with 25 year old reflexes would be faster, but you can’t take those late career titles won by Ago and Doohan away from them, and Rossi himself seems to have been chasing the 8th title which was Ago’s crowning achievement rather avidly for almost a decade now.
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I feel Doohan's drive and ruthlessness would have been enough to take on a young Rossi. Rossi may be the more talented of the two, but I think Doohan could overcome that through sheer force of will. That would have been an impressive battle to see had we lucked out.
 
J4rn0 said:
Saying that your rival is riding like a god, is a way of saying "just watch how I can beat a god". That's the intention at least. it's not guaranteed to work out at all times, but that's the attitude. This applies to all champions, not just to Rossi.
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I always approach your Vale worship in a good natured fashion and respect many of your opinions and generally really enjoy your participation on PS - but really and truly - that's the biggest load of wishful thinking ........ I've heard in a LONG time.
 
Keshav said:
I always approach your Vale worship in a good natured fashion and respect many of your opinions and generally really enjoy your participation on PS - but really and truly - that's the biggest load of wishful thinking ........ I've heard in a LONG time.
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Rossi often used to use this sort of praise for his rivals to make himself seem vulnerable. E.g. at LS08, all throughout practice, he kept saying how the only way to stop Stoner was with a gun! He also painted himself as the little fish against the hungry shark in Lorenzo in 2015. There are more examples, but I just thought of two that most easily came to mind.
 
Keshav said:
I always approach your Vale worship in a good natured fashion and respect many of your opinions and generally really enjoy your participation on PS - but really and truly - that's the biggest load of wishful thinking ........ I've heard in a LONG time.
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I have no worship for anybody. The fact that I defend Valentino Rossi here is only due to the silly indulgence of the majority of the forum in Rossi-bashing, which is just just as idiotic as the indulgence in Rossi-worship in other forums.
 
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JPSLotus said:
I feel Doohan's drive and ruthlessness would have been enough to take on a young Rossi. Rossi may be the more talented of the two, but I think Doohan could overcome that through sheer force of will. That would have been an impressive battle to see had we lucked out.
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Doohan would have most probably beaten Rossi in his rookie year, for the reasons you mention, plus experience; but afterwards it would have been much harder imho. Thanks to Honda itself, who was listening to Criville, Rossi didn't win the title in his rookie year anyway, when thanks to Doohan's absence he could have made it. Let us also not forget that Doohan recommended that Honda hire Rossi: he esteemed the young rider a lot.
 

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