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Yep, even down to the exact same flaws...
Hey Fonsi, ok, so you need to be Conan the Barbarian to knock down a motogp bike by kicking the fairing, but can you role-play what happens when someone nudges the handlebars with their foot?
Do you believe Rossi "nudged" Marc's handlebars before or after Marc turned in and made contact with Rossi's leg?
And what opinion is that?
That Marquez was out to 'sabotage' Rossi?
A lot of those SAME people also criticise Rossi's actions and yet that is forgotten
Do you remember the facts?
Rossi got penalised.
No other rider broke any WRITTEN rule and as such cannot be penalised.
Race Control did not say that MM WAS trying to interfere, they did state SUSPICIONS by using the word THINK
I can THINK I am a MotoGP rider, but until FACTS make it so, it simply did not happen
You forget in your argument that yes, MM did turn in (to continue racing) but that Rossi had continued to the outside of the track at far below the race speed (to paraphrase Rossi here - to be almost stopped to confront Marc).
Let me ask you this
You are riding your motorcycle on a 2 lane roadway coming to an intersection on your left (apologies, not knowing your country I shall use Australian road rules, revers if you drive on the right).
Beside you is a car.
This car creeps into your lane as if they are going left, so you slow. As you slow the car maintains a relatively straight path so you go 'I am gonne get the f*ck out of here' and accelerate only to find that the car has again gone left.
You have no choice, you are committed to accelerating and sh*t happened quick .......... you now need a new helmet and riding gear
Who was at fault?
And to make it interesting, you were battling through traffic with a mate who was ahead of you ........... the bet was last to the pub bought beers ...... not a big championship but still a championship (slight difference I know, but I wanted to mention the word Championship as if this had occurred in round 2, one suspects that the whinging from all sides would be non existent)
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Nobody has forgotten Rossi's actions at Sepang, it's just that many believe Rossi's was justified because his action was a reaction to what Marc was doing. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The BEST part is that Marc will officially no longer be reigning MotoGP champion in 6 days, so even though he was never penalized... Rossi (and Lorenzo) succeeded by outperforming him this season.
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After. I've said that all along. And if that's against the rules and I mean the official, written rules, in that situation, then I would not argue against him being penalised in accordance to said rules.
I'm not taking a Rossi v Marquez position, I'm taking a "looked a lot like a kick" v "no way was there a kick" position. Have been all along.
Also Nieto says that Marquez's handlebars moved at the moment of the collision: also incorrect.
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So if you acknowledge that Marc turned in and hit Rossi's leg first, do you think there is a chance that Marc's handlebar could've hit Rossi's boot and as Rossi accelerated forward his foot was pulled off the peg?
So we have riders who are ok with vigilante justice?
I would suggest that they need to lose their licences if that is the case as any rider who is comfortable with another rider deliberately and intentionally (remember what Rossi got penalised for) to crash I would suggest is undeserving of being on any racetrack.
You are 100% right, everyone is entitled to their opinion but that does not make their opinion any more right than an opposing opinion.
Again, there are many riders who have stated (to paraphrase a little) that the actions of Rossi were totally uncalled for even if he were provoked as you do not deliberately crash another rider (again, remember what Race Control findings were)
The argument/debate is circular .............. Rossi has been found guilty at present by the FIM. Accept it and move on.
Yes you and others may think that MM was culpable but guess what, HE BROKE NO RULES and as such he cannot be held to account by Race Control.
If the other riders want to have a serious chat with MM, let them but I suspect that most if not ALL of the riders on both sides of the fence would love to get a clear passage in Rossi's position, but would want their team mate or just a mate to help them were they in Lorenzos position or if they totally disliked Rossi
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I realise that this is not directed at me but I will state now (just so you know my position) as I did in other threads.
Rossi did not kick MM from the bike (based on my definition of a kick) but he contributed greatly to the end result (three looks to locate the 2nd riders and a serious slowdown on or near race line, all self admitted cannot go unpunished)
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I'm not hung up on the penalty Rossi was given. He still has a chance of winning the championship even if it starts from the back of the grid. If he gets granted a stay from CAS, then he stands an even better chance. Rossi's penalty isn't a big issue with me. I'm more happy that Marc is losing his title than I'm upset about Rossi's penalty.
As mentioned in another thread, he will get a stay and he will start from near the front which does throw an interesting conundrum into the mix for Valencia should the original penalty be said to stand when the outcome is handed down in 2016
Marc lost the title well before Sepang and personally (a small pet hate) but I believe that either Lorenzo or Rossi have won the title as to say 'rider X lost the title' only demeans the efforts and achievements of those that win the title.
Who ever wins it has accumulated the most points but (to me only here) if that is Rossi by a very small margin and then the penalty that was applied is found to have been valid, there will be questions
Hmm, just saw a very interesting chart actually
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Again, whether he behaved badly or unethically is one question, but he is not guilty of any illegality as the same Mike Webb specifically said.
The opinion of all these people concerns whether, or how severely, Rossi's illegal move was provoked.
You are very entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else including those you name, and to support your guy if you are a passionate fan of his as seems to be the case. You however continue to advance no arguments, nor offer any counterarguments to those of others.
Your "race-fixing" nonsense is specifically quite annoying to Lorenzo fans, since what you advocate is no-one other than Jorge being able to race Rossi, which are not the conditions under which Valentino gained his lead in the the first place.
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No, it's my opinion that Marc wasn't racing. If I had issue with no-one other than Jorge being able to race Rossi, I'd be complaining about Pedrosa (Aragon) and Iannone (PI) right? Again, it's my opinion that Marc was not racing and that's what I took issue with.
If you look carefully, you will see that the first part of Rossi's leg to move was his knee. Then his foot started to move and at the end of that movement, Marquez's handlebars turned in, in time with the movement of Rossi's foot. If Rossi's foot was caught behind the handlebars then, as he ...... his foot away, the handlebars would have moved in the opposite direction and opened the front.
Before his foot starts to move, you can see Rossi's whole body slide back in the seat as if to get more weight into the kick, then at the moment his foot finally starts to move, you can can see his arm and upper body clench as he bears down on his handlebars to to get more force into the kick.
Start watching this from 1:42
That's why it looks like a kick to me and that's why I don't think you can say "no way was there a kick". And mate, I don't make the claim lightly, I analysed very carefully before taking a position.
Lol, you can't post the chart without giving your opinion of it. What do YOU make of it?
It supports Marquez's assertion that he lost the tyre for a few laps at the end, backed off and it came back.
It is not the strongest support for Rossi's case
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HRC Speaks .......... and offers ALL data
Q&A with Shuhei Nakamoto, HRC Executive Vice President - HRC
Q&A with Shuhei Nakamoto, HRC Executive Vice President
“First of all, we would like to state that we believe it is very important to speak about the facts, not about assumptions. A fact is a fact and there is only one interpretation. Assumptions can be translated in different ways, depending on which side you are. For the good of our sport, we would like everybody to just consider the facts that occurred and these are clearly the following:
– Marc Marquez won the Australian GP, overtaking Jorge Lorenzo on the last lap, and therefore taking away 5 points from him in the Championship.
– On Thursday prior to the Malaysian GP in the Pre-Event Press Conference, Valentino Rossi accused Marc of racing against him in Phillip Island to help Jorge Lorenzo.
– In the Malaysian GP, Rossi intentionally pushed Marc out of the racing line which caused him to crash. Race Direction gave him a penalty for this action, confirmed by FIM.
As a matter of fact, the aforementioned topics are the only facts we can consider and comment upon, any other discussion would be based on assumptions. To speak about assumptions would only increase the negative atmosphere we are facing in this moment, but will not change the reality of what happened.”
What is your opinion regarding the current situation after the Malaysian GP?
“We as HRC are very regretful this situation has been created. First of all, we would like to underline that Marc has been subject to an accusation with no evidence, after the Phillip Island race. Clearly there are no grounds to support that he wanted to help any rider in the Championship battle, considering he pushed to win the race and did so. After reviewing the images further, you can clearly see Valentino and Marc shaking hands after the chequered flag in Australia, acknowledging a great and fair battle.”
Do you believe the battle in the Malaysian GP between Marc and Valentino is a result of Valentino’s accusation?
“We honestly don’t think this is the case. We all know Marc races at 100% all the time, it’s one of the reasons we all love him and he has so many fans around the world. Marc always pushes to the maximum to achieve the best result possible. He had a great battle in his career with many riders, and nobody complained about that. In Malaysia, we know that Marc was struggling at the beginning of the race with the full tank, as has happened several times this season. Also in Sepang he made a mistake at the beginning of the race and this allowed Jorge to pass him. Then Valentino arrived and they began to fight for third place. The passes were extreme, but safe, from both riders. Two of the greatest champions we’ve seen battling together on track”
Is it possible that Marc slowed down Valentino in those laps?
“The lap times they were doing were quite fast, clearly showing that there was no intention from Marc to slow down Valentino. In addition, after Marc crashed and Valentino had an open track in front of him, his lap times were no faster then during the battle with Marc. We believe, they were both pushing to the maximum. Both wanted third place and to try and catch up with Dani and Jorge, but of course this battle opened up a gap to the front two. This is racing and when you have two talents such as Marc and Valentino you can see a wonderful battle as we saw.”
Do you believe Valentino kicked Marc’s bike?
“It is clear that Valentino intentionally pushed Marc towards the outside of the track, which is out of the rules, therefore Marc had no other option other than to run wide. The data from Marc’s bike shows that even though he was picking up the bike trying to avoid contact with Valentino, his front brake lever suddenly received an impact that locked the front tyre, which is the reason for his crash. We believe that this pressure was a result of Rossi’s kick. The data acquisition from Marc’s bike is available if anybody from Dorna, the FIM or media want to check.”
Do you believe Marc is telling the truth when he says he wasn’t trying to slow down Valentino in Sepang?
“I know Marc well. He is a good guy, with strong and honest values. Marc was just trying to defend his position, as any rider would do, and we believe him 100%.”
What is your position on how Race Direction acted?
“We respect the decision of Race Direction and don’t want to pass judgement if the penalty they administered was right or wrong. However, we do believe there was enough evidence to allow them to take a decision during the race, it was not necessary to wait until the end.”
What do you think of Valentino’s appeal to the CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport) against Race Direction and FIM’s decision?
“This is in his rights. We will respect the CAS decision.”
People say that it’s unfair that Marc battled with Valentino, as Marc is not fighting for the Championship, while Valentino is.
“This is racing! There were no comments or concerns after Dani fought with Valentino in Aragon and beat him, and also in Phillip Island with Iannone – nobody accused Andrea of trying to help one competitor more than the other. It’s been a difficult season and in Sepang Marc simply wanted to take the best result possible for him and his team, it’s not in his nature to settle for fourth place when there is a chance to fight for third. We should also look back to Motegi 2010 when Valentino was out of the race for the title but had a great battle with his teammate Jorge. After the race, when Jorge complained about Valentino being too aggressive and with no meaning as he was out of the Championship, Valentino commented: “I said to Yamaha, what do you expect from me, to arrive behind? If I know this I will stay at home.” We totally agree with Valentino’s approach and will always support our riders to achieve the best results possible.”
What is your opinion of Valentino in this moment?
“Valentino is the greatest ever champion of our sport. We believe he has done a great job this year, and if he wins the Championship he truly deserves it, as he has been consistent and very fast all year. The fact that he is 36 years old increases the respect for such a great champion. Having said that, we don’t understand his accusation related to the Phillip Island race and his manoeuvre in Sepang. We hope that Valentino will think it over and understand his mistake.”
What is your target for Valencia?
“As always, our target is to win! Our hope is that Marc and Dani can fight for the win. If they can finish first and second – it doesn’t matter for us which order – then we will be very happy. First of all, because we want to finish this season with the 4th win in a row, second because if they both are in front of Jorge and Valentino, their result will have no influence in the battle for the title and – finally – we hope everybody will understand that Honda riders race for the win and the pure competition, for nothing else.”
Q&A with Shuhei Nakamoto, HRC Executive Vice President - HRC
Q&A with Shuhei Nakamoto, HRC Executive Vice President
“First of all, we would like to state that we believe it is very important to speak about the facts, not about assumptions. A fact is a fact and there is only one interpretation. Assumptions can be translated in different ways, depending on which side you are. For the good of our sport, we would like everybody to just consider the facts that occurred and these are clearly the following:
– Marc Marquez won the Australian GP, overtaking Jorge Lorenzo on the last lap, and therefore taking away 5 points from him in the Championship.
– On Thursday prior to the Malaysian GP in the Pre-Event Press Conference, Valentino Rossi accused Marc of racing against him in Phillip Island to help Jorge Lorenzo.
– In the Malaysian GP, Rossi intentionally pushed Marc out of the racing line which caused him to crash. Race Direction gave him a penalty for this action, confirmed by FIM.
As a matter of fact, the aforementioned topics are the only facts we can consider and comment upon, any other discussion would be based on assumptions. To speak about assumptions would only increase the negative atmosphere we are facing in this moment, but will not change the reality of what happened.”
What is your opinion regarding the current situation after the Malaysian GP?
“We as HRC are very regretful this situation has been created. First of all, we would like to underline that Marc has been subject to an accusation with no evidence, after the Phillip Island race. Clearly there are no grounds to support that he wanted to help any rider in the Championship battle, considering he pushed to win the race and did so. After reviewing the images further, you can clearly see Valentino and Marc shaking hands after the chequered flag in Australia, acknowledging a great and fair battle.”
Do you believe the battle in the Malaysian GP between Marc and Valentino is a result of Valentino’s accusation?
“We honestly don’t think this is the case. We all know Marc races at 100% all the time, it’s one of the reasons we all love him and he has so many fans around the world. Marc always pushes to the maximum to achieve the best result possible. He had a great battle in his career with many riders, and nobody complained about that. In Malaysia, we know that Marc was struggling at the beginning of the race with the full tank, as has happened several times this season. Also in Sepang he made a mistake at the beginning of the race and this allowed Jorge to pass him. Then Valentino arrived and they began to fight for third place. The passes were extreme, but safe, from both riders. Two of the greatest champions we’ve seen battling together on track”
Is it possible that Marc slowed down Valentino in those laps?
“The lap times they were doing were quite fast, clearly showing that there was no intention from Marc to slow down Valentino. In addition, after Marc crashed and Valentino had an open track in front of him, his lap times were no faster then during the battle with Marc. We believe, they were both pushing to the maximum. Both wanted third place and to try and catch up with Dani and Jorge, but of course this battle opened up a gap to the front two. This is racing and when you have two talents such as Marc and Valentino you can see a wonderful battle as we saw.”
Do you believe Valentino kicked Marc’s bike?
“It is clear that Valentino intentionally pushed Marc towards the outside of the track, which is out of the rules, therefore Marc had no other option other than to run wide. The data from Marc’s bike shows that even though he was picking up the bike trying to avoid contact with Valentino, his front brake lever suddenly received an impact that locked the front tyre, which is the reason for his crash. We believe that this pressure was a result of Rossi’s kick. The data acquisition from Marc’s bike is available if anybody from Dorna, the FIM or media want to check.”
Do you believe Marc is telling the truth when he says he wasn’t trying to slow down Valentino in Sepang?
“I know Marc well. He is a good guy, with strong and honest values. Marc was just trying to defend his position, as any rider would do, and we believe him 100%.”
What is your position on how Race Direction acted?
“We respect the decision of Race Direction and don’t want to pass judgement if the penalty they administered was right or wrong. However, we do believe there was enough evidence to allow them to take a decision during the race, it was not necessary to wait until the end.”
What do you think of Valentino’s appeal to the CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport) against Race Direction and FIM’s decision?
“This is in his rights. We will respect the CAS decision.”
People say that it’s unfair that Marc battled with Valentino, as Marc is not fighting for the Championship, while Valentino is.
“This is racing! There were no comments or concerns after Dani fought with Valentino in Aragon and beat him, and also in Phillip Island with Iannone – nobody accused Andrea of trying to help one competitor more than the other. It’s been a difficult season and in Sepang Marc simply wanted to take the best result possible for him and his team, it’s not in his nature to settle for fourth place when there is a chance to fight for third. We should also look back to Motegi 2010 when Valentino was out of the race for the title but had a great battle with his teammate Jorge. After the race, when Jorge complained about Valentino being too aggressive and with no meaning as he was out of the Championship, Valentino commented: “I said to Yamaha, what do you expect from me, to arrive behind? If I know this I will stay at home.” We totally agree with Valentino’s approach and will always support our riders to achieve the best results possible.”
What is your opinion of Valentino in this moment?
“Valentino is the greatest ever champion of our sport. We believe he has done a great job this year, and if he wins the Championship he truly deserves it, as he has been consistent and very fast all year. The fact that he is 36 years old increases the respect for such a great champion. Having said that, we don’t understand his accusation related to the Phillip Island race and his manoeuvre in Sepang. We hope that Valentino will think it over and understand his mistake.”
What is your target for Valencia?
“As always, our target is to win! Our hope is that Marc and Dani can fight for the win. If they can finish first and second – it doesn’t matter for us which order – then we will be very happy. First of all, because we want to finish this season with the 4th win in a row, second because if they both are in front of Jorge and Valentino, their result will have no influence in the battle for the title and – finally – we hope everybody will understand that Honda riders race for the win and the pure competition, for nothing else.”
