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Rossi Hate.

Yep - agree with all of that. I used to rail on and on about the fact that Stoner's wins in 2007 weren't down to TC in this forum. Rossi was seen as some infallible god who only lost because he was incurably disadvantaged.

Gee. A reasonable exchange of views on MotoGPForum.com...
 
Yep - agree with all of that. I used to rail on and on about the fact that Stoner's wins in 2007 weren't down to TC in this forum. Rossi was seen as some infallible god who only lost because he was incurably disadvantaged.

Gee. A reasonable exchange of views on MotoGPForum.com...

Again no problem.


I didn't finish my intended discusssion in regard to your points about the PI 2015 thing. I am sure emotions were both strong and influential in more than one party, and I also find credible David Emmett's opinion about Alzamora's lack of character.

I tend to believe MM did have gripes about the 2 incidents with Rossi earlier in the season, not very justifiably imo about at least 1 of them. He didn't respond by calling Rossi a proven cheat to the world press however. My view, supported by his emotional reaction to being called a cheat by Rossi imo, including reports that extraordinarily tough young man was brought to tears by the accusation, is that he made a deliberate effort not to interfere with the title contenders in the PI race, in terms of riding manoeuvres that might put them at risk anyway. The facts are also that he took the win when it was available, and that the tactics he adopted in 2015 are the only ones which have ever resulted in him finishing let alone winning at PI in the premier class, so it is hard to see how he merits criticism for those tactics. I don't think either he or Lorenzo wanted to be involved in a last lap stoush with an Andre Iannone desperate for his first podium either, as Lorenzo actually said, so if it was possible to arrange which I doubt leaving Iannone tangled up with Rossi was a good tactic in itself.
 
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Evidence?

Your barking up the wrong tree if you are thinking Pov is the type to be scouring the net finding 'evidence' for you. I thought you being on the forum longer than me you would realise he is a more take it or leave it style poster.

For what it's worth I seem to recall Burgess saying what Pov says in an interview possibly in the movie faster. It's pretty typical of his arrogant type of comment to claim other riders and crew chiefs don't know jack compared to him and Rossi. Mr Fixed in 80 seconds remember.

Passport and popularity had a great impact on which tyres Michelin would provide a rider so naturally they had as much influence on the direction of development such as in SNS. Evidence? Ask Casey Stoner. He was occasionally the quickest guy on the grid even on second tier tires. To which Michelin would respond by demoting him 3rd tier tires. Says so in his book. Says it was because he was too outspoken. Go figure.

The other famous example was the one and only Mr Squiggle. He was the only rider who immediately favoured the 16.5 inch tire while all the rest preferred the 17. As long as the compound was very soft, McCoy was very fast. But I seem to remember that man Burgess again shaking his head gravely pronouncing all that dirty sideways tire smoking action was not the correct way to ride a motorcycle. In no time at all the supersoft disappeared only to be replaced by the Rossi hard and poor old Gary was left to sing what about me?
 
Anyone notice, whenever rossi is down on luck ar performing ....., the ....... spam grows here exponentially. ....... ...... custard clowns.
 
Anyone notice, whenever rossi is down on luck ar performing ....., the ....... spam grows here exponentially. ....... ...... custard clowns.

That is a bloody good observation Barbed so I decided to consult my clipboard, look at the google analytic stats for the sectors of time you have mentioned and, why yes, I have been able to determine that during the times you have mentioned there is indeed enough evidence to suggest that the yellow horde are indeed working (perhaps even conspiring) together to cause change the standings of this forum for their own benefit..

:p
 
Anyone notice, whenever rossi is down on luck ar performing ....., the ....... spam grows here exponentially. ....... ...... custard clowns.
Well one thing is certain, the media have been in a concerted message to ask everyone associated with racing whether Rossi training is heroic despite the risks, apparently everyone agrees, it's heroic. It's amazing how every rider has been asked their opinion on training. It's such a ridiculous question, one that is never asked when others have been injured whilst training.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
 
Well one thing is certain, the media have been in a concerted message to ask everyone associated with racing whether Rossi training is heroic despite the risks, apparently everyone agrees, it's heroic. It's amazing how every rider has been asked their opinion on training. It's such a ridiculous question, one that is never asked when others have been injured whilst training.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

How about the end of qual. Vinales snatches pole on his last lap only for .... Harris to proclaim 'claims pole on the Yamaha no Valentino Rossi!'??? WTF????
 
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How about the end of qual. Vinales snatches pole on his last lap only for .... Harris to proclaim 'claims pole on the Yamaha no Valentino Rossi!'??? WTF????
I .... you not, I rewound because I thought wait, why was Rossi's name just insert here. Actually his name was inserted by both commentators in a span of seconds, just before the other guy said 'Valentino fans' that made it out will be happy that at least an Italian bike/rider on pole. Then Viñalez snatched pole on ode to Rossi.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
 
how the .... did Vale got so popular anyways? I remember being a teenager back when Vale started his first season in the premier class and he was already a mass phenomenon. Back then I watched the races cuz my brother did but wasn't as involved in the sport as I am today. Mick Doohan won 5 in a row and it wasn't anything like that
 
how the .... did Vale got so popular anyways? I remember being a teenager back when Vale started his first season in the premier class and he was already a mass phenomenon. Back then I watched the races cuz my brother did but wasn't as involved in the sport as I am today. Mick Doohan won 5 in a row and it wasn't anything like that


Blame the bell curve.

rossis fans are of average intelligence ..... at best. So that means the bottom half of a bell curve, depicting human intelligence, are all rossi boppers.

The upper half is the rest of society ..... a minor part of which are non-rossiboppers. The lower part of the upper half are folk who arent into motogp. They are still above boppers though.
 
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how the .... did Vale got so popular anyways? I remember being a teenager back when Vale started his first season in the premier class and he was already a mass phenomenon. Back then I watched the races cuz my brother did but wasn't as involved in the sport as I am today. Mick Doohan won 5 in a row and it wasn't anything like that
There is actually an answer to your question. The promoters learned that creating a narrative around a hero vs villains sells, it's a typical Hollywood creation adapted for sport consumption, it works. It's a marketing paradigm shift that once it was realized became increasingly sophisticated. This led to a skewed competition, because to have a hero, the hero needs to win by beating the villains. The promoters manufacturer that artificial record by a mechanism of advantages written into the rule book. For example, the advantages of specially designed tire done legally, this is the most famous and easily understood, but there have been many more examples. You see, something "legal" is misconstrued as "fair"! Nobody questions legal advantages. And so on... what we end up with is a peculiar reaction by the masses of fans who gravitate towards "winners". Look no further than the two big soccer clubs Barcelona & Real Madrid. People buy their jerseys without the slightest affiliation. They become blind to the facts that is responsible for the artificial "success", they seem unaware of the lopsided advantages. The fact that a 300 million dollar club beats a 45 million dollar club is not factored in to the equation of outcomes, astonishingly it's perceived as fair competition. It was the same with the Yankees for example, a club that basically bought many of its titles (until the parity model changed in American baseball). Incidentally, the parity model for Spain's league of Barcelona & Real Madrid is still skewed. Other top flight soccer leagues have mitigated the parity model; however, It's not a coincidence that DORNA subscribes to a similar competition model being a Spanish league itself.

Then there is a sport MEDIA (the main subject of this post) which is something I'd like to draw your attention to here. The media are the drivers of most of what fans think, accept, and discuss. For example, since Rossi was injured in a training incident, several articles have been written on the subject which purposefully paint Rossi's training regiment as an admirable commitment to improve particularly praiseworthy. It wasn't enough to write articles and disseminate tweets on social media, every rider was asked to comment over the weekend and since! There are video interviews where the leading questions beg the answer: yes, Rossi is right to train, and the risks he takes are an example of his dedication. However, this media blitz is disproportionate when other riders are injured during training. I'll give you two examples of this disproportionate handling of incidents then move on; when Nicky Hayden injured his heel and ankle riding supermoto, there were not multiple articles written in a positive light to approve of his participation in such activities, nor was most the paddock asked if training supermoto should be banned. In fact, the general arch of perception was it was a stupid unnecessary injury, frowned upon by his employer as I recall (surely Yamaha aren't voicing their displeasure with Rossi).

Here is my second example, recently Hack Oxley discussed the Silverstone GP alongside Freddy Spencer at some UK royal motorsport club (you can probably find it on youtube). Oxley referenced the barging by Marquez on Lorenzo at Jerez in 2013 (the one that was a carbon copy of Jerez 05 Rossi /Sete) Hack Oxley characterized Lorenzo maintaining his line around the penultimate corner as evidence of "Lorenzo's fragile ego!" That's a quote. Absurd right? The incident was brought up by Oxley for this purpose; let me explain his ludicrous logic, he said Dovi let Marc past at Silverstone because unlike Lorenzo, Dovi is not afflicted by capricious ego and was willing to let Marc by, in effect letting Marquez be the author of his own demise, allowing Dovi to recover the line and win. Oxley reasoned, Lorenzo's capricious nature compelled by Jorge's "fragile ego" held fast onto his race line in 2013, inviting Marc to use him as a berm and effectively losing the position--follow me here; Oxley basically is "reasoning", it was Lorenzo's fault because his ego is so fragile not to have let Marc by to then overtake the position like Dovi! Can you imagine a sport rider of consequence and the affect of his opinions saying something so outrageous? Keep in mind, this logic is intended to exonerate Rossi's barging of Sete in 2005! It's a litigation by fallacy, if Lorenzo's "fragile ego" caused his demise--so then Sete was at fault for Rossi's infamous move to "win" that race: lore preserved! How do you suppose it affects readers, particularly Rossi fans? Oxley repeatedly says .... like this to cue who are the 'villains' Lorenzo is decidedly one-hence being cheered when he crashed today. Oh Oxley will tell you it's because Lorenzo showed a thumbs down to Rossi at Sepang 05 (whitewashing the fact Jorge did that because Rossi had just tried to run a competitor off track and didn't deserve to stand on the podium). Oxley provides the minions their cues, cues that come decidedly from Rossi's McCarthiest opinions.

The point I'm making Michael is that the media are responsible for building up Rossi to astronomical disproportionate heights. They refused then and still now to call Rossi on the carpet for the villainization of rivals. There is a thread here titled: Rossi still won't let it go. With the media, it's quite the contrary, then have done their best not to ruffle Rossi’s sentiments about the great Marquez conspiracy--hence why he was booed today. I predict you'll read in the coming days some media figures declare: the boo birds at Misano displayed disgusting behavior, bla bla. They will because the display was so noticeable it requires the journalists to cover their ...... The authors will grandstand; but I'll tell you what they won't do, they will NOT place the blame on Rossi for starting this ...., and they certainly won't raise their hands taking responsibility for not aggressively writing against it in the past (though I'm sure they'll point you to some flaccid line buried in some article that they disagreed with Rossi claiming Marc conspired. Notwithstanding, you may remember, Marc Marquez pointed out that Rossi WEAPONIZES the MEDIA--this cannot happen unless that media is a partner!

You asked how Rossi became so popular? Take a look below. Marc Marquez put in an astonishing performance today. You would think that's the lead of any story discussing today's amazing race, particularly the last lap. Well, you'd be wrong. The lead of the summary by David Emmett (Kropo) for today's performance was the absence of Valentino Rossi! In fact, the first 8 paragraph are basically all in direct or indirect reference to Rossi! Oh, it gets worse. Not only were the first paragraphs dedicated to Rossi's absence (it's in the title FFS) and the survival of MotoGP post Rossi; but the initial explanation for Marc's performance was, as Kropotkin reasoned: the affect of Rossi's boo birds turned motivation--that is, it ALL revolves around Rossi. Without Rossi and his fans perhaps Marc wouldn't have tried so hard--Kropo logic.

Get this, Krops says that Marc threw caution to the wind in order to exact revenge on Rossi's minions--the reason for Marc's determination! No, no, it wasn't the primary obvious objective to fight for a win in the same exact way Marc did at Silverstone, where he didn’t have this particular score to settle! No, no, it wasn't the standard operating procedure we see when a shark like Marquez smells the blood of a possible win in sight. The same compelling tenacity that we've seen countless times at places like Argentina, Assen, Mugello (against Lorenzo) Philip Island ("to help Lorenzo"). No, Marquez put in that last lap performance because...wait for it: Rossi’s ....... fans!

That's why Rossi is so popular Michael, because every possible narrative revolves around Rossi. Not the least being ........ acts of "democracy" to reinstate a previously almost unanimously rejected tire. Here too Hack Oxley (and Krops) jumped into service, redirecting the perceptions of reinstating #70 tire did not pass the stench test, they declared in chorus-- 'no, it's not a tire conspiracy.' Classic, "the lady doth protest too much."

So to answer your question, there are several reasons why Rossi became 'disproportionately' so popular, one reason is skewed and gutless media covering the sport.

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If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
 
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Only 8 paragraphs? He missed one then. Doesn't krops know hes 9 times. Or is that the ninth gate which raises the devil?

Good points btw haven't thought of it like that but makes sence.
 
how the .... did Vale got so popular anyways? I remember being a teenager back when Vale started his first season in the premier class and he was already a mass phenomenon. Back then I watched the races cuz my brother did but wasn't as involved in the sport as I am today. Mick Doohan won 5 in a row and it wasn't anything like that

Long story and no doubt there will be many many variations but will throw my theory out there as well (please remember that I am no fan of VR so when you are reading this, feel free to assume a level of bias)


VR was somewhat fortunate in that he came into the sport in 125cc racing at a time when the internet was becoming more widely available, together with the associated invention of various forms of social media, all of which combined to make the sport (any sport really) more accessible.

Now, VR was coached well in terms of media plus of course as a young person at the time he knew what he wanted to see, read and hear on the various forms of social interaction sites. All he needed to do was have the ability to keep himself in the public eye and in this aspect I do genuinely believe he 'developed the extroverted and ever smiling guy who enjoys every aspect of bike racing' as a means of making him likable to the masses so that people 'fell in love with the young kid'. Secondly he had an innate burning competitiveness, a brutal win at all costs racers mentality (not a criticism at all) that often separates the good from the very good, from the brilliant and he used the mentality with his skills to keep his name at the forefront on results alone (leave aside any perceptions of equipment levels).

So he became a hugely successful racer in terms of results who also happened to be an ever smiling, jokester type of personality and of course people find it difficult to dislike that character trait so he was somewhat set in terms of being easily publicised as he was good publicity for himself, his team, his sponsors and the sport.

Of course, this developed power (he would not have gotten this without the results which were crucial) and so the sport and the media (later to become media minions) just gravitated somewhat naturally to this ever-popular, always smiling highly talented racer who was extremely open to the media and always happy to give time as afterall, to be aligned with VR made them and their articles popular which increased their revenue.

Essentially, Valentino was what the sport at the time needed (so the sports organisers believed)as it tried to attract a new audience who were younger, more in tune with social media and the internet and as such his 'personality' attracted more sponsors with their dollars, and of course he cultivated it as he is a business man and can see how developing a following will open doors and allow him to further his financial rewards from the sport that he adores.

As time went on, VR essentially became synonomous with the sport and as such, most of the marketing of the sport involved images of or including Valentino which only worked to perpetuate that he was and remains to this day, the sport.

The cycle continued as DORNA continued to publicise their golden goose somewhat, to the total detriment of the sport and it's competitors not named Rossi, and all the time the power continued to grow until we have what we have today, a total focus by the sport and associated media on one single, solitary ma. Of course, if the sport is so focussed on an individual it in many ways forces the followers of the sport to also become very 'aware' of that rider and of course, to a casual observer he becomes someone that they recognise as the sport and by extension, as an integral part.

Now, I could go one a bit but essentially, many many of the VR fans of today are his fans firstly and whilst many will deny it (they may not genuinely recognise it) their focus on the sport is all about Valentino as they had likely started following the sport during the time it has been infatuated with all things Valentino. I say this as amongst the 'non-believers' or 'haters' as some prefer to call them, you will find that the majority of supporters not infatuated with Rossi are from an old school base where they watched the sport well before Valentino entered and thus in many ways they see the ruination of the sport to suit an individual or agenda, thus they question and they are labelled.
 
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