Help Support MotoGP Forum:
I was just reading that earlier.
I actually don't think that Rossi has the power to get a formula change, but I think that Dorna and the IRTA are working together wrestle power from the MSMA.
If you look at Moto2, it doesn't look as though the manufacturers really wanted it. The class is spec engine and nearly all of the people who will benefit from Moto2 are the independent engineering companies and the IRTA teams that have engineering personal who aren't currently utilized. Moto2 appears to have been designed to allow people to develop chassis and electronics while using only an engine that only costs 24,000.
The only winner in Moto2 is the IRTA and the independent engineering companies like Moriwaki, Harris, KR, and Ilmor. Moto2 is really nice for the IRTA b/c they can sign riders in Moto2 and then promote them to MotoGP without interference from major MSMA manufacturers.
Once Dorna have a group of companies who are all capable of building rolling chassis and tuning modern electronics, all they need to do is get them an engine. Dorna can use a bit of the commercial rights money to commission 990s from BMW, Aprilia, and Kawasaki that meet certain specifications for cost, durability, power output, and weight.
The end product would be a series with many manufacturers that is differentiated from WSBK. I don't know if the part about the 990s will happen, but the engine leasing rule makes it obvious that Moto2 is supposed to create chassis builders and the engine leasing rule is designed to get them engines so they can run in MotoGP.
I actually don't think that Rossi has the power to get a formula change, but I think that Dorna and the IRTA are working together wrestle power from the MSMA.
If you look at Moto2, it doesn't look as though the manufacturers really wanted it. The class is spec engine and nearly all of the people who will benefit from Moto2 are the independent engineering companies and the IRTA teams that have engineering personal who aren't currently utilized. Moto2 appears to have been designed to allow people to develop chassis and electronics while using only an engine that only costs 24,000.
The only winner in Moto2 is the IRTA and the independent engineering companies like Moriwaki, Harris, KR, and Ilmor. Moto2 is really nice for the IRTA b/c they can sign riders in Moto2 and then promote them to MotoGP without interference from major MSMA manufacturers.
Once Dorna have a group of companies who are all capable of building rolling chassis and tuning modern electronics, all they need to do is get them an engine. Dorna can use a bit of the commercial rights money to commission 990s from BMW, Aprilia, and Kawasaki that meet certain specifications for cost, durability, power output, and weight.
The end product would be a series with many manufacturers that is differentiated from WSBK. I don't know if the part about the 990s will happen, but the engine leasing rule makes it obvious that Moto2 is supposed to create chassis builders and the engine leasing rule is designed to get them engines so they can run in MotoGP.
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2007
- Messages
- 9,515
- Location
- Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (quile @ Oct 13 2009, 12:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Fix title?
I often wonder at such statements, do you really believe the title can be fixed?
Sure it could be swayed, but Fixed!!?
Look at how the supposed "fixing" by moving to 800's went
Truth be known, all of these riders could ride 990's and its very unlikely we would see a huge shift in the scheme of things.
Power is one aspect of riding a bike, I would strongly suggest that if there was any one rider in the current line up of MGP riders that was so dependent on "power/torque" to get his wins ...... is he truly a great rider? DO you think he would be there at all?
Sometimes these articles seem so dedicated at latching onto the "hysteria" of fans they are ridiculous.
I'm sure this article has sold well for the writer ..... it has all the essential instant sell phrases ..... "Rossi" ........ theres a few copies sold already
and they are always looking for any reason he is not what he once was .
"990's" ........ as much as I like Hayden I don't believe its the reason he has not performed after his title ....... this is however a reason many have touted as why he did not .... I belive Hayden was better than just being a "Litre" rider. I'm sure he got to the "litre" class after showing just how good he was at riding ........ anything
I don't think bringing back 990's will do a thing, in fact I expect it would be more sedate than it currently is. And don't give me all the bull about the slides, there were very few slides in the 990 era its just that any opportunity why do you think folk were so impressed with McCoy!! ( because it was already the Rossi era and he is a railway track rider ...... you have to remember McCoy was also only on a 500 whilst Rossi was following him on a 990. And it was Rossi who got the slipper clutch and Electronic management stuff fitted as he found the 990's too hard to ride. But back then it was not hard ( dangerous ) it was hard because they were slow because of the 4 stroke engine dynamics at the time ..... ie. anyone remember backing off on a 4 stroke bike back then? ...... for those that don't, it was the thing that most stopped them being cometitive they just slowed down too fast and it was a constant struggle to keep them moving into and out of a corner.
990's ....... meh.
Electric is the next big thing
I often wonder at such statements, do you really believe the title can be fixed?
Sure it could be swayed, but Fixed!!?
Look at how the supposed "fixing" by moving to 800's went
Truth be known, all of these riders could ride 990's and its very unlikely we would see a huge shift in the scheme of things.
Power is one aspect of riding a bike, I would strongly suggest that if there was any one rider in the current line up of MGP riders that was so dependent on "power/torque" to get his wins ...... is he truly a great rider? DO you think he would be there at all?
Sometimes these articles seem so dedicated at latching onto the "hysteria" of fans they are ridiculous.
I'm sure this article has sold well for the writer ..... it has all the essential instant sell phrases ..... "Rossi" ........ theres a few copies sold already
"990's" ........ as much as I like Hayden I don't believe its the reason he has not performed after his title ....... this is however a reason many have touted as why he did not .... I belive Hayden was better than just being a "Litre" rider. I'm sure he got to the "litre" class after showing just how good he was at riding ........ anything
I don't think bringing back 990's will do a thing, in fact I expect it would be more sedate than it currently is. And don't give me all the bull about the slides, there were very few slides in the 990 era its just that any opportunity why do you think folk were so impressed with McCoy!! ( because it was already the Rossi era and he is a railway track rider ...... you have to remember McCoy was also only on a 500 whilst Rossi was following him on a 990. And it was Rossi who got the slipper clutch and Electronic management stuff fitted as he found the 990's too hard to ride. But back then it was not hard ( dangerous ) it was hard because they were slow because of the 4 stroke engine dynamics at the time ..... ie. anyone remember backing off on a 4 stroke bike back then? ...... for those that don't, it was the thing that most stopped them being cometitive they just slowed down too fast and it was a constant struggle to keep them moving into and out of a corner.
990's ....... meh.
Electric is the next big thing
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2008
- Messages
- 238
Berrybullshitter
'fix title' refers to:
Rossi & Co, CV, and Others Want 990's Gone., Will he leverage his power to make it happen?
'fix title' refers to:
Rossi & Co, CV, and Others Want 990's Gone., Will he leverage his power to make it happen?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 13 2009, 02:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>.... you have to remember McCoy was also only on a 500 whilst Rossi was following him on a 990.
I think mccoy won his 3 races in 2000 when both were on 500s; I remember as you do valentino saying then that he loved watching mccoy ride. I don't think valentino spent much time following mccoy or anyone else round once he was on the 990.
I think mccoy won his 3 races in 2000 when both were on 500s; I remember as you do valentino saying then that he loved watching mccoy ride. I don't think valentino spent much time following mccoy or anyone else round once he was on the 990.
BEN
Site Founder
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2005
- Messages
- 4,483
- Location
- Lancashire UK
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chockmoose @ Oct 13 2009, 07:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Berrybullshitter
'fix title' refers to:
Rossi & Co, CV, and Others Want 990's Gone., Will he leverage his power to make it happen?
'fix title' refers to:
Rossi & Co, CV, and Others Want 990's Gone., Will he leverage his power to make it happen?
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2007
- Messages
- 9,515
- Location
- Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chockmoose @ Oct 13 2009, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Berrybullshitter
'fix title' refers to:
Rossi & Co, CV, and Others Want 990's Gone., Will he leverage his power to make it happen?
I thought you were saying they want 990's back!!?
I think your have covered yourself well by arguing for each case
'fix title' refers to:
Rossi & Co, CV, and Others Want 990's Gone., Will he leverage his power to make it happen?
I thought you were saying they want 990's back!!?
I think your have covered yourself well by arguing for each case
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2007
- Messages
- 9,515
- Location
- Norah Head
Oh I see now
Sorry Guile ..... just so used to the "conspiracy theories going around I read it that way
Welcome by the way ......
Sorry Guile ..... just so used to the "conspiracy theories going around I read it that way
Welcome by the way ......
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Oct 13 2009, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think mccoy won his 3 races in 2000 when both were on 500s; I remember as you do valentino saying then that he loved watching mccoy ride. I don't think valentino spent much time following mccoy or anyone else round once he was on the 990.
103++ I think there was a possibility McCoy could be the world champion in 2001 if they still race 500cc 2 stroke.
103++ I think there was a possibility McCoy could be the world champion in 2001 if they still race 500cc 2 stroke.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Oct 13 2009, 01:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Lexicon might be right when he says Moto2 can be seen as a general exercise and training camp in view of changing MotoGP as well... Might well be.
If suzuki pull out and they can't attract new manufacturers it will worsen the perception of motogp vs wsbk with its much larger number of manufacturers (some more competitive in theory than practice of course) and the need to get costs down may now be assuming more urgency than safety concerns, the benefits of the new formula concerning safety also having proved to be largely theoretical in any case. Any attempts at cost-cutting within the current formula seem to have been futile, with the probable exception of the tyre rule. I imagine the original champions of the formula at honda may also be less keen now, although I wouldn't underestimate their persistence/bloody mindedness.
If suzuki pull out and they can't attract new manufacturers it will worsen the perception of motogp vs wsbk with its much larger number of manufacturers (some more competitive in theory than practice of course) and the need to get costs down may now be assuming more urgency than safety concerns, the benefits of the new formula concerning safety also having proved to be largely theoretical in any case. Any attempts at cost-cutting within the current formula seem to have been futile, with the probable exception of the tyre rule. I imagine the original champions of the formula at honda may also be less keen now, although I wouldn't underestimate their persistence/bloody mindedness.
I'm sure the manufacturers will want to switch back to the ancient 990 engines after the advances they have made in the past few years with the 800's. Talk about boring and pointless for them. The 800GP bikes are show pieces of technological advance. They show what a factory is capable of producing. 990's? Been there, done that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Oct 14 2009, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm sure the manufacturers will want to switch back to the ancient 990 engines after the advances they have made in the past few years with the 800's. Talk about boring and pointless for them. The 800GP bikes are show pieces of technological advance. They show what a factory is capable of producing. 990's? Been there, done that.
Displacement is just the volume swept by the pistons. It didn't create electronic sophistication and it won't eliminate electronic sophistication.
Like you, I suspect the MSMA view the 990s as a retreat (probably Honda, maybe Yamaha as well). I'm not optimistic about their return.
However, Dorna's changes to the sport have been thwarted by the MSMA's proposal to supply engines for $700,000 so you can be sure they will be pulling every trick in the book to bring costs down.
Displacement is just the volume swept by the pistons. It didn't create electronic sophistication and it won't eliminate electronic sophistication.
Like you, I suspect the MSMA view the 990s as a retreat (probably Honda, maybe Yamaha as well). I'm not optimistic about their return.
However, Dorna's changes to the sport have been thwarted by the MSMA's proposal to supply engines for $700,000 so you can be sure they will be pulling every trick in the book to bring costs down.
