The speed at which he rode eventually led to him putting the bike down, isn't that what happened?. The guy who actually won the race, one of those he passed, eventually finished 1 minute ahead of him, when he only lost 30 seconds by putting the bike down.
[Rossi]..."at bottom of the slope." Doohan
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The speed at which he rode eventually led to him putting the bike down, isn't that what happened?. The guy who actually won the race, one of those he passed, eventually finished 1 minute ahead of him, when he only lost 30 seconds by putting the bike down.
Right so VR was suppose to get back on and lap at race winning pace on a crashed bike, right after the crash......
Speed is one thing, racecraft is another, exceptional Racecraft is what he has not lost and proved again last weekend before overcooking it in one particular spot. When I mentioned Malaysia 2010 and last weekend, I was referencing Rossi's ability to overtake a lot of the field during a race throughout his career, one of the first times we saw this in Motogp was Donnington 2001, where he came from 12th on the NSR500 to win.
I think you might need to go and talk to someone about this, your obviously still irrationally livid.
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The point u r missing talps is that riders can actually lap much faster at start, that often means they will compromise race management. In Rossi's case that meant crashing. His passing up the field means he took more risks while others who did not crash who finished ahead wer riding condition appropriate pace. Im not sure why ur taking such comfort in him passing peeps if that ended with a crash.
If u want to point out passing successfully at Jerez, i'd direct ur attention to Pedro. At the end of lap 1 he was down to 10th. By the end of race, he was 2nd.
If u want to point out passing successfully at Jerez, i'd direct ur attention to Pedro. At the end of lap 1 he was down to 10th. By the end of race, he was 2nd.
Right so VR was suppose to get back on and lap at race winning pace on a crashed bike, right after the crash......
Speed is one thing, racecraft is another, exceptional Racecraft is what he has not lost and proved again last weekend before overcooking it in one particular spot. When I mentioned Malaysia 2010 and last weekend, I was referencing Rossi's ability to overtake a lot of the field during a race throughout his career, one of the first times we saw this in Motogp was Donnington 2001, where he came from 12th on the NSR500 to win.
I think you might need to go and talk to someone about this, your obviously still irrationally livid.
Meanwhile, in this reality there is a post-race thread entitled "is spies going to continue to disappoint", concerning a rider who was second in the race until very near the end, started by a fan of his.
I often, perhaps even habitually, suffer fools reasonably gladly, but I am prepared to make an exception in your case
Particularly since the crash took out another rider minding his own business running his own race strategy which was far from having been proven unsuccessful , especially since he was at the time in front of the rider who eventually won the race.
Arguments by the reasonable rossi fans that rossi's greatness encompasses occasional errors due to it involving pushing of the limits are one thing, but any one claiming that this race was in any way a triumph for him are watching a different sport than I have been watching these several decades and is liable to provoke lividity in me, irrational or otherwise
Particularly since the crash took out another rider minding his own business running his own race strategy which was far from having been proven unsuccessful , especially since he was at the time in front of the rider who eventually won the race.
Arguments by the reasonable rossi fans that rossi's greatness encompasses occasional errors due to it involving pushing of
the limits are one thing, but any one claiming that this race
was in any way a triumph for him are watching a different
sport than I have been watching these several decades and is
liable to provoke lividity in me, irrational or otherwise.
Ahh yes resorting to cheap shots yet again, which has been
your way since Jerez. Speaking of the sliding to the bottom of
the slope.......
I assume you are speaking of me judging by the insults above, so explain to us where do I proclaim that this was a triumph for
Rossi? I simply stated that before the mistake, the race reflected
his exceptional racecraft, not in any way triumphant, nor did I
say it was the correct way to approach the race or the correct
implementation of his extra speed on the day on the bike which
many believe he can't ride competitively.
Your lividity is based on presumption and your own inability to
control emotion and react with intelligence, not surprisingly
much like your hero. Through this you are inventing
assumptions through others POV's to suit your own rabid cause.
So before calling one a fool-one should consider.....
..... in the Old Testament, the word for fool means unbeliever, insolent in religion. These individuals are those who attack
someone’s reputation, who hate instructions, who love to
disagree with others, causing controversy, who live for their
desires and live by their own heart. So basically again, those
who are not built upon God, who seek their own ways, are
foolish.
Thanks for the complement
Does this make you a fool too Mick? Or are you built upon your god, Cassius Stoneritus
I don't think that Rossi is at the bottom of the slope. It's just that the competition is much tougher now than it was during 2002-2006 when the Rossi legend was born. During that period Rossi would probably win titles on any bike, now you have to be on the best bike to win the title. It's as simple as that.
wins 2002-2006:
Rossi 45
Gibernau 8
Capirossi 6
Melandri 5
Biaggi 5
Barros 3
Hayden 3
Pedrosa 2
Ukawa 1
Elias 1
Bayliss 1
wins 2007-2011
Stoner 24
Rossi 21
Lorenzo 15
Pedrosa 10
Capirossi 1
Vermulen 1
Dovizioso 1
wins 2002-2006:
Rossi 45
Gibernau 8
Capirossi 6
Melandri 5
Biaggi 5
Barros 3
Hayden 3
Pedrosa 2
Ukawa 1
Elias 1
Bayliss 1
wins 2007-2011
Stoner 24
Rossi 21
Lorenzo 15
Pedrosa 10
Capirossi 1
Vermulen 1
Dovizioso 1
Ahh yes resorting to cheap shots yet again, which has been your way since Jerez. Speaking of the sliding to the bottom of the slope.......
I assume you are speaking of me judging by the insults above, so explain to us where do I proclaim that this was a triumph for Rossi? I simply stated that before the mistake, the race reflected his exceptional racecraft, not in any way triumphant, nor did I say it was the correct way to approach the race or the correct implementation of his extra speed on the day on the bike which many believe he can't ride competitively.
Your lividity is based on presumption and your own inability to control emotion and react with intelligence, not surprisingly much like your hero. Through this you are inventing assumptions through others POV's to suit your own rabid cause. So before calling one a fool-one should consider.....
..... in the Old Testament, the word for fool means unbeliever, insolent in religion. These individuals are those who attack someone’s reputation, who hate instructions, who love to disagree with others, causing controversy, who live for their desires and live by their own heart. So basically again, those who are not built upon God, who seek their own ways, are foolish.
Thanks for the complement
Do this make you a fool too Mick? Or are you built upon your god, Cassius Stoneritus
Interesting that you are now quoting scripture, since discussions with you and to a lesser extent rob remind me of discussions I unwisely had with door-to-door proselytisers in my youth, where scripture did not deter them from their predetermined argument, much like you and rob even in response to direct quotes from valentino rossi.
You initially argued that rossi's move was a reasonable one, to which stoner should have taken no exception; valentino post-race (with some degree of embarassment imo) admitted that he had stuffed up, and stated he had not even been attempting a pass.
You are now arguing that rossi's performance in the race proves his continuing superiority over stoner and lorenzo ( I am making the not very great presumption that you were referring to them among your list of the younger competitors who were apparently "flailing" in your imagination), notwithstanding that one was taken out of the race by rossi's egregious error, and that the other, the defending world champion btw, actually won the race. The issue is not whether rossi is still their equal or superior, which he may well be, but whether his performance in this race proves this as you implied, which it clearly does not, nor does it prove his great race-craft, concerning which I don't even have to draw an implication since you directly said it; I repeat it is not great racecraft if you crash, something for which you have repeatedly pilloried casey stoner.
I will only be "livid" with valentino ( I have to tell you he may not greatly care what you or I think
Good call bluegreen. Talps, not completely crazy response, half well done. Digger, i like u.
So far good thread, but then again, look at the respondents (with one exception)
But that may b short lived as i think i saw Rob lurking.
Lets face it all the greasing aside, you only had one intention when creating this thread....which obviously hasnt had the desired outcome.
And when will your obsession with me end.
Interesting that you are now quoting scripture, since discussions with you and to a lesser extent rob remind me of discussions I unwisely had with door-to-door proselytisers in my youth, where scripture did not deter them from their predetermined argument, much like you and rob even in response to direct quotes from valentino rossi.
You initially argued that rossi's move was a reasonable one, to which stoner should have taken no exception; valentino post-race (with some degree of embarassment imo) admitted that he had stuffed up, and stated he had not even been attempting a pass.
You are now arguing that rossi's performance in the race proves his continuing superiority over stoner and lorenzo ( I am making the not very great presumption that you were referring to them among your list of the younger competitors who were apparently "flailing" in your imagination), notwithstanding that one was taken out of the race by rossi's egregious error, and that the other, the defending world champion btw, actually won the race. The issue is not whether rossi is still their equal or superior, which he may well be, but whether his performance in this race proves this as you implied, which it clearly does not, nor does it prove his great race-craft, concerning which I don't even have to draw an implication since you directly said it; I repeat it is not great racecraft if you crash, something for which you have repeatedly pilloried casey stoner.
I will only be "livid" with valentino ( I have to tell you he may not greatly care what you or I think) if stoner loses the world championship to jorge by less than 30 points, but you finding this race positive for valentino relative to his "younger competitors" would seem to put your perspective on gp racing with the 15 year old ex-wwe wrestling fans on crash who exulted that valentino had "kicked stoner's ..." again, and that stoner was a "sore loser", apparently having lost to a legitimate racing tactic in being taken out.
The only mistake he made was he felt the need to rush, when in 3rd....he didnt need to. And it cost him and unfortunately another rider.
But overall rossi rode the bike well and was extremely fast up until the crash. Its like catalunya 2009 that last corner move could easily have gone south......or the corkscrew at laguna 2008 when he overshot the corner.....but these are the margins you race within when you give it everything to win.
It works out then your remembered for a long time, if it doesnt you lose the bike.
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Ahh yes resorting to cheap shots yet again, which has been
your way since Jerez. Speaking of the sliding to the bottom of
the slope.......
I assume you are speaking of me judging by the insults above, so explain to us where do I proclaim that this was a triumph for
Rossi? I simply stated that before the mistake, the race reflected
his exceptional racecraft, not in any way triumphant, nor did I
say it was the correct way to approach the race or the correct
implementation of his extra speed on the day on the bike which
many believe he can't ride competitively.
Your lividity is based on presumption and your own inability to
control emotion and react with intelligence, not surprisingly
much like your hero. Through this you are inventing
assumptions through others POV's to suit your own rabid cause.
So before calling one a fool-one should consider.....
..... in the Old Testament, the word for fool means unbeliever, insolent in religion. These individuals are those who attack
someone’s reputation, who hate instructions, who love to
disagree with others, causing controversy, who live for their
desires and live by their own heart. So basically again, those
who are not built upon God, who seek their own ways, are
foolish.
Thanks for the complement
Does this make you a fool too Mick? Or are you built upon your god, Cassius Stoneritus
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Or soon to be 2 out of 6, its all in how you present it
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Interesting that you are now quoting scripture, since discussions with you and to a lesser extent rob remind me of discussions I unwisely had with door-to-door proselytisers in my youth, where scripture did not deter them from their predetermined argument, much like you and rob even in response to direct quotes from valentino rossi.
You initially argued that rossi's move was a reasonable one, to which stoner should have taken no exception; valentino post-race (with some degree of embarassment imo) admitted that he had stuffed up, and stated he had not even been attempting a pass.
You are now arguing that rossi's performance in the race proves his continuing superiority over stoner and lorenzo ( I am making the not very great presumption that you were referring to them among your list of the younger competitors who were apparently "flailing" in your imagination), notwithstanding that one was taken out of the race by rossi's egregious error, and that the other, the defending world champion btw, actually won the race. The issue is not whether rossi is still their equal or superior, which he may well be, but whether his performance in this race proves this as you implied, which it clearly does not, nor does it prove his great race-craft, concerning which I don't even have to draw an implication since you directly said it; I repeat it is not great racecraft if you crash, something for which you have repeatedly pilloried casey stoner.
I will only be "livid" with valentino ( I have to tell you he may not greatly care what you or I think) if stoner loses the world championship to jorge by less than 30 points, but you finding this race positive for valentino relative to his "younger competitors" would seem to put your perspective on gp racing with the 15 year old ex-wwe wrestling fans on crash who exulted that valentino had "kicked stoner's ..." again, and that stoner was a "sore loser", apparently having lost to a legitimate racing tactic in being taken out.
Dude, your dealing with a mindset from a zombie like cult. When you hear stuff like 'Rossi's superior race craft' right up the time he crashed and took out another rider, or the other zombie that proclaimed that his highlight of the Qatar race was when Rossi led for a millisecond by totally blowing turn one . So far we have 2 races and 2 bonzai moves from Rossi, one Stoner was lucky to avoid, the other not so much.His race craft is smelling more and more like desperation.
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Well yes and no. He has the backing of him team because they know he and Burgess can develop a top bike from nothing.
On the other hand Ducati can't compete financially with Yamaha and Honda so it's all relative (plus of course Honda have four factory riders).
Thanks for the good AND factual post
Not sure about MD's logic about going downhill to win 7 titles, but maybe that's cultural - doesn't detract from the obvious truisms in his comments -
It's not realistic to disagree with all of MD's comments -
Rossi is older and the competition is much stronger than previously -
ImO the latter is very good for the Sport
And:
VR and JB developed the tool which Lorenzo is now so successful on - No other rider/ team have done this.
Honda after a couple of years of losing their act are back in a big way with power and handling - they outspend rhe rest of the grid
Ducati's earlier advantages were lost in 2009/ 10.
Pan forward to the last race:
Rossi did a great job coming from 12th to 3rd
He should have stayed in 3rd for a while, but he didn't and he ...... up - reality time - .... happens - the rest of the comments flying around are hot air
The probability of VR winning 2011 WC is very low
But I do believe the probability of his winning at least one more WC before changing sports is equally high
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1. JB and many other riders have done that.
2.
3. Rossi did a crap job, constantly risking it because he knew the risk was not the front end at the rain speeds so he though he would have his biggest chance this year.
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Doohan is like Mr. De La Palisse...
Of course Rossi's direction is now downhill in his career -- at 32 you are no more 22. Nobody grows younger.
I actually am somewhat surprised he's still racing, having already won so much and earned more than enough. And look, even after last year's injuries, he's still there. I think this willingness to continue playing against a field of really strong and younger rivals is a sign of greatness and of real love for the sport. Inevitably he will have an increasingly hard time as he goes on, and in the end he will have to give up. This also goes without saying...
Stoner, Lorenzo & C. should be grateful to Rossi for giving them year after year another opportunity to race against him and beat him. It will look good in their careers. Had he retired after 2009, his record would have been 'safe' from them. He prefers to be there and try to beat them on the track again. Kudos to him.
Now the question, is Rossi's talent declining or not? That's been difficult to tell in the last year because he wasn't fit. Certainly his determination seems intact, but that's only half of what's required. We'll see, the next few races will be revealing about that.
The fact that he has been more competitive on his own tailor-cut Yamaha than on the difficult and unknown Ducati, while recovering from an injury first and from the operation later, well, that's very normal. Having two problems at the same time -- physical problems + a new and problematic bike to adjust to -- does not help. One of the two problems would have been enough...
Then: Doohan's titles, Rossi's titles... we could add Agostini's titles here. All riders who won multiple championships in a row, were able to do that because the competition wasn't too strong. It's obvious... I must say that all these riders were also able to win against very tough competition, so they were destined to become world champions -- maybe they would have won less titles otherwise, let's put it like that
Which, by the way, is why I do not consider the 'quantity' of titles a decisive argument in the greatness of a rider.
Of course Rossi's direction is now downhill in his career -- at 32 you are no more 22. Nobody grows younger.
I actually am somewhat surprised he's still racing, having already won so much and earned more than enough. And look, even after last year's injuries, he's still there. I think this willingness to continue playing against a field of really strong and younger rivals is a sign of greatness and of real love for the sport. Inevitably he will have an increasingly hard time as he goes on, and in the end he will have to give up. This also goes without saying...
Stoner, Lorenzo & C. should be grateful to Rossi for giving them year after year another opportunity to race against him and beat him. It will look good in their careers. Had he retired after 2009, his record would have been 'safe' from them. He prefers to be there and try to beat them on the track again. Kudos to him.
Now the question, is Rossi's talent declining or not? That's been difficult to tell in the last year because he wasn't fit. Certainly his determination seems intact, but that's only half of what's required. We'll see, the next few races will be revealing about that.
The fact that he has been more competitive on his own tailor-cut Yamaha than on the difficult and unknown Ducati, while recovering from an injury first and from the operation later, well, that's very normal. Having two problems at the same time -- physical problems + a new and problematic bike to adjust to -- does not help. One of the two problems would have been enough...
Then: Doohan's titles, Rossi's titles... we could add Agostini's titles here. All riders who won multiple championships in a row, were able to do that because the competition wasn't too strong. It's obvious... I must say that all these riders were also able to win against very tough competition, so they were destined to become world champions -- maybe they would have won less titles otherwise, let's put it like that
Which, by the way, is why I do not consider the 'quantity' of titles a decisive argument in the greatness of a rider.
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Did Talps quote the Bible?
Topic: Doohan may be basing his comment not just on the natural slope of careers in general, but i think Rossi last two race performances wer fresh in his mind. Qatar, wher he made a first turn desperate lunge (only luck saving front runners from disaster) and Jerez, attacking from a country mile back and taking out the points leader. As they say, ur only as good as ur last race, Rossi had had two ...... ones. But if it rains in Esotril, and Rossi wins (without causing harm or injury to others) then mayb Doohan might revise his take.
Topic: Doohan may be basing his comment not just on the natural slope of careers in general, but i think Rossi last two race performances wer fresh in his mind. Qatar, wher he made a first turn desperate lunge (only luck saving front runners from disaster) and Jerez, attacking from a country mile back and taking out the points leader. As they say, ur only as good as ur last race, Rossi had had two ...... ones. But if it rains in Esotril, and Rossi wins (without causing harm or injury to others) then mayb Doohan might revise his take.
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Question J4rno, is it fair to compare titles straight up between Stoner Ducati and Rossi Yamaha? Lets for a moment put Rossi Ducati and Stoner Yamaha the last 4 years. In your estimation, would there have been a different picture?
