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Respect between the riders

Then I would rate you as poor judge of talent. Let's 2/10.



Your being generous.......I'd say he wouldn't even qualify to be on the scale
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And this thread is ridiculous, yet another Rossi bashing heap of diatribe incited by the same old boners sprouting the same old rubbish......At what point do you lot feel as though you are going to change anyone perceptions with this dribble?? And funnily enough the man most directly responsible for all of the incidents this season doesn't get a mention in the authors post????? Citing the only exception to be Rossi........some of the absolute rubbish from the Boners is THE WORST I have ever come across. At least Jums is showing some consistency with citing this as complete dribble.



This is really very comical, we go a few rounds without Stoner bashing someone or trying to run them off the track in FP and all of a sudden their all best buds!! Let alone Jorge and Dani abusing and not even acknowledging Sic in full public view.....
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This has been one of the worst seasons ever for rider indiscretions, mainly because of Stoner and Sic, and its still to finish.
 
Your being generous.......I'd say he wouldn't even qualify to be on the scale
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And this thread is ridiculous, yet another Rossi bashing heap of diatribe incited by the same old boners sprouting the same old rubbish......At what point do you lot feel as though you are going to change anyone perceptions with this dribble?? And funnily enough the man most directly responsible for all of the incidents this season doesn't get a mention in the authors post????? Citing the only exception to be Rossi........some of the absolute rubbish from the Boners is THE WORST I have ever come across. At least Jums is showing some consistency with citing this as complete dribble.



This is really very comical, we go a few rounds without Stoner bashing someone or trying to run them off the track in FP and all of a sudden their all best buds!! Let alone Jorge and Dani abusing and not even acknowledging Sic in full public view.....
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This has been one of the worst seasons ever for rider indiscretions, mainly because of Stoner and Sic, and its still to finish.





zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....
 
I think they should develop the tyres so they wear out with 7laps to go, the problem is they are by in large, far too durable. The skill of being able manage tyres isnt as important as it once was, this would bring the riders closer together...

Thats OK for rear tires, not front. The front must be durable. No rider past or present has been able to ride around a dodgy front tire. The best can ride around rear tyre problems which is interesting to watch. The present day problems (Ducati) are more with front tires.

Control front tires dont work well in motogp due to the relatively wide range of rider preferences for bike set-up and riding style. The ones that can get it to work are the same riders every race more or less. With more front profile and construction variations different riders would 'click' more often and spring a surprise. If Motogp and Bridgestone agreed to lift controls on front tyres but keep the limits on rear and even make them softer then as you say the racing would improve a lot, but the key is the front.
 
Your being generous.......I'd say he wouldn't even qualify to be on the scale
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And this thread is ridiculous, yet another Rossi bashing heap of diatribe incited by the same old boners sprouting the same old rubbish......At what point do you lot feel as though you are going to change anyone perceptions with this dribble?? And funnily enough the man most directly responsible for all of the incidents this season doesn't get a mention in the authors post????? Citing the only exception to be Rossi........some of the absolute rubbish from the Boners is THE WORST I have ever come across. At least Jums is showing some consistency with citing this as complete dribble.



This is really very comical, we go a few rounds without Stoner bashing someone or trying to run them off the track in FP and all of a sudden their all best buds!! Let alone Jorge and Dani abusing and not even acknowledging Sic in full public view.....
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This has been one of the worst seasons ever for rider indiscretions, mainly because of Stoner and Sic, and its still to finish.

I agree this is a rossi bashing thread and was at its inception, which is why I haven't contributed to it previously. I don't particularly want the riders to hold hands and sing hymns/folk songs anyway, and see no reason why they should. The only requirement should be that they give respect in terms of racing room/ being trustworthy in racing situations, and simoncelli whilst sometimes a victim of circumstances (particularly in the pedrosa incident imo) doesn't have the trust and confidence of his fellow riders, and to a degree their attitude is justifiable.



As I have frequently said, rossi is statistically probably the safest rider in history, which is not the same as saying stoner had no reason to be upset over the jerez incident. All your criticism of him over the incident is based on implications you have drawn, stoner actually called it a racing incident and moved on. I think with the mutual contributions to the history between them neither stoner nor rossi is in a position to complain about what each says about the other. In terms of rossi's famous mind games, rossi is apparently "not speaking" to stoner at present, which looks like a win for stoner regardless of their respective current results.



There are now two things concerning which I won't defend stoner, his ungracious (even if probably true) comments about the Indy track, and his lack of respect for nicky hayden in their practice incident.
 
I agree this is a rossi bashing thread and was at its inception, which is why I haven't contributed to it previously. I don't particularly want the riders to hold hands and sing hymns/folk songs anyway, and see no reason why they should. The only requirement should be that they give respect in terms of racing room/ being trustworthy in racing situations, and simoncelli whilst sometimes a victim of circumstances (particularly in the pedrosa incident imo) doesn't have the trust and confidence of his fellow riders, and to a degree their attitude is justifiable.



As I have frequently said, rossi is statistically probably the safest rider in history, which is not the same as saying stoner had no reason to be upset over the jerez incident. All your criticism of him over the incident is based on implications you have drawn, stoner actually called it a racing incident and moved on. I think with the mutual contributions to the history between them neither stoner nor rossi is in a position to complain about what each says about the other. In terms of rossi's famous mind games, rossi is apparently "not speaking" to stoner at present, which looks like a win for stoner regardless of their respective current results.



There are now two things concerning which I won't defend stoner, his ungracious (even if probably true) comments about the Indy track, and his lack of respect for nicky hayden in their practice incident.



Yes the track comments aren't really to wise, I think some discretion is required when speaking of matters such as this in public, he certainly hasn't increased his fanbase in America, not that I'd imagine it to be to hot there anyway after the Nicky incident earlier in the year. And as one Journalist put it, such detailed criticism from riders is not really warranted in public, much better to say, 'yep its not my favorite', then sort your grievances out behind closed doors......



I'm actually not criticizing the Jerez incident at all here, however it was too very dangerous and stupid behavior from Stoner.......more so the Randy punch, the Hayden fiasco, the Karol garage brawl, the Aoyama fist pump, the Rossi arse pat......hardly a season were you could say riders are all getting on famously with Stoner or Simocelli and Jorges little press conference argument, followed by Pedrosa slamming super sic in the media then not even shaking his hand no, no.....no Rossi is the absolute and only Villain because he rated some riders abilities........
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I agree this is a rossi bashing thread and was at its inception, which is why I haven't contributed to it previously. I don't particularly want the riders to hold hands and sing hymns/folk songs anyway, and see no reason why they should. The only requirement should be that they give respect in terms of racing room/ being trustworthy in racing situations, and simoncelli whilst sometimes a victim of circumstances (particularly in the pedrosa incident imo) doesn't have the trust and confidence of his fellow riders, and to a degree their attitude is justifiable.



As I have frequently said, rossi is statistically probably the safest rider in history, which is not the same as saying stoner had no reason to be upset over the jerez incident. All your criticism of him over the incident is based on implications you have drawn, stoner actually called it a racing incident and moved on. I think with the mutual contributions to the history between them neither stoner nor rossi is in a position to complain about what each says about the other. In terms of rossi's famous mind games, rossi is apparently "not speaking" to stoner at present, which looks like a win for stoner regardless of their respective current results.



There are now two things concerning which I won't defend stoner, his ungracious (even if probably true) comments about the Indy track, and his lack of respect for nicky hayden in their practice incident.

F..ing excellent post, as has become your custom!



And I'll add, something that has puzzled me a bit has been the rider's attitudes toward going to Japan. I was a bit harsh on all of them (Talps was particularly harsh on Stoner...that is until Rossi made similar foot in mouth statement that he would not go either). But anyway, this got me thinking a bit more, and I may be guilty of judging these guys too harshly for this reason: they are young kids. Well, at my age, they are to me, as they are for the most part, half my age (except Rossi, who is an old ... man
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) I suspect they have a few people who are probably also feeding them stupid stuff (which I think Kropo suggested once, I think it was him). These guys have spent all their time at the track since they were 3, and certainly have a different prospective on life. Where as me, I went to school, got a job, dealt with relationships, a "normal" life, etc. So perhaps they are still learning the social constructs of acceptable behavior, which sometimes unfortunately for them, gets played out in public. And of course, there is never a eager journalist to catch them in a fit of stupid words, eh. (sarcasm).



Again, I'm not one to come to Rossi's rescue, as he is the senior fellow bar Capi in this group of riders, but certainly he was not the "only exception" of putting foot in mouth. I mean, guys I have grown to like, like Crutchlow and Abraham also said some not so kind words in public (though again, they were hilarious). Ah, if only Kalio were back in MotoGP, hitting guys and never copping responsibility. Like when he clearly torpedoed Melandri, and rant to him to yell out, "what the F are you doing?" to have Melandri look back like, 'did this guy bump his head?' Hahaha.
 
I'm actually not criticizing the Jerez incident at all here, however it was too very dangerous and stupid behavior from Stoner.......more so the Randy punch, the Hayden fiasco, the Karol garage brawl, the Aoyama fist pump, the Rossi arse pat......hardly a season were you could say riders are all getting on famously with Stoner or Simocelli and Jorges little press conference argument, followed by Pedrosa slamming super sic in the media then not even shaking his hand no, no.....no Rossi is the absolute and only Villain because he rated some riders abilities........
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Here is where we differ, and where you differ from most. In none of these incidents was behaviour by stoner actually dangerous. Again I quote the not well known for pro-stoner bias Italian site gpone concerning the randy "punch", which they called "arrogant and improper but not particularly dangerous" before highlighting the danger of randy's provoking behaviour, as did julian ryder. The rossi jerez torpedo was potentially very dangerous not least to rossi himself, but excusable if undeliberate. Call him arrogant and insolent all you like, but stoner in his 800 career does not do dangerous to other riders, and now that riders are no longer dawdling dangerously on the racing line he is no longer complaining about them.
 
I'm prob going to get fried for this, but I am actualy in favour of a single control tyre, and I think the present situation where one supplier brings two separate compounds of the same tyre, is by far the best option.

Everyone has the same to work with. All this talk about tyres not suiting a bike is ...., what they mean is that our bike does not have enough grip and we can't compensate the lack of grip with the tyres.

Get the bike right, and it will work the best regardless of which tyres are on the wheels. The people complaining are the people on the bikes with grip problems.



With competition from tyre suppliers, one brand will always have an advantage, and MotoGP simply becomes a matter of who has the best tyres.

If Suzuki are the only runner of Dunlop, and Dunlop come out with some 'off the scale awsome' tyre that no one else has access to, they will be untouchable.

IMHO, the years of sellected riders getting SNS tyres, was crap. It is hard to respect a rider, afer he wins purely because he gets access to tyres no one else can get.
 
I'm prob going to get fried for this, but I am actualy in favour of a single control tyre, and I think the present situation where one supplier brings two separate compounds of the same tyre, is by far the best option.

Everyone has the same to work with. All this talk about tyres not suiting a bike is ...., what they mean is that our bike does not have enough grip and we can't compensate the lack of grip with the tyres.

Get the bike right, and it will work the best regardless of which tyres are on the wheels. The people complaining are the people on the bikes with grip problems.



With competition from tyre suppliers, one brand will always have an advantage, and MotoGP simply becomes a matter of who has the best tyres.

If Suzuki are the only runner of Dunlop, and Dunlop come out with some 'off the scale awsome' tyre that no one else has access to, they will be untouchable.

IMHO, the years of sellected riders getting SNS tyres, was crap. It is hard to respect a rider, afer he wins purely because he gets access to tyres no one else can get.



I am 100% with you.
 
I'm prob going to get fried for this, but I am actualy in favour of a single control tyre, and I think the present situation where one supplier brings two separate compounds of the same tyre, is by far the best option.

Everyone has the same to work with. All this talk about tyres not suiting a bike is ...., what they mean is that our bike does not have enough grip and we can't compensate the lack of grip with the tyres.

Get the bike right, and it will work the best regardless of which tyres are on the wheels. The people complaining are the people on the bikes with grip problems.



With competition from tyre suppliers, one brand will always have an advantage, and MotoGP simply becomes a matter of who has the best tyres.

If Suzuki are the only runner of Dunlop, and Dunlop come out with some 'off the scale awsome' tyre that no one else has access to, they will be untouchable.

IMHO, the years of sellected riders getting SNS tyres, was crap. It is hard to respect a rider, afer he wins purely because he gets access to tyres no one else can get.

On the one hand I would like to see an open market for tyres that everyone has access to. No tyre supply contracts at all, rather a tyre shop with riders free to choose whatever candy they like. But in reality it would never work. Comparing the situation with forks, its an open market there and everyone runs the same Ohlins thing anyway, so your right the single tire is the way to go.
 
I'm prob going to get fried for this, but I am actualy in favour of a single control tyre, and I think the present situation where one supplier brings two separate compounds of the same tyre, is by far the best option.

Everyone has the same to work with. All this talk about tyres not suiting a bike is ...., what they mean is that our bike does not have enough grip and we can't compensate the lack of grip with the tyres.

Get the bike right, and it will work the best regardless of which tyres are on the wheels. The people complaining are the people on the bikes with grip problems.



With competition from tyre suppliers, one brand will always have an advantage, and MotoGP simply becomes a matter of who has the best tyres.

If Suzuki are the only runner of Dunlop, and Dunlop come out with some 'off the scale awsome' tyre that no one else has access to, they will be untouchable.

IMHO, the years of sellected riders getting SNS tyres, was crap. It is hard to respect a rider, afer he wins purely because he gets access to tyres no one else can get.

I can see this/your point of view even though I don't agree with it. In the days of the sns tyres all the significant contenders usually had them, although catch 22 applied to an extent and you weren't a significant contender unless you had them.



What had the odour of rotting fish to me particularly given my allegiances was that as soon as bridgestone became competitive with or better than michelin after years of effort co-developing tyres with ducati and to a lesser extent suzuki this was immediately apparently intolerable, even after 1 year. And since the control tyre (or the preliminary down-teching of the bridgestone in 2008 if you believe the lex hypothesis which I am inclined to do) ducati and suzuki have had problems.



The idea of a control tyre in a racing series per se is a matter of philososphy and mine differs from yours, but I can see your argument. There was never any suggestion that the control tyre in motogp was to increase fairness though, it was sold entirely on the basis of cost saving which I don't believe it has, particularly for ducati who at the very least are up for costly re-design(s) to get their bike to work with the tyre rather than the other way around, and may even not survive in motogp.
 
A tyre should be able to go the full race distance, full tilt, flat out ,ring the bikes neck and still have rubber left, anything else is just epic fail from the tyre manufacture.



The fastest rider on the fastest bike should always have tyres that can bring it home full race distance.



Control tyre should be 1 supplier supplying any tyre that is needed by each different bike to win, access to the different tyres should be equal for everyone



The day they make tyres to fail 7 laps before the end to stop the fastest rider winning, so the slow riders at the back can catch up.



will be the day you call GP a show fabricated for television not racing



Its about catching the guy at the front , not dragging him back
 
Poor Bridgestone, when was the last time a company was vilified for making a product that was to good. Talking about a no win situation. If the tires go away with 7 laps to go, the guy who drops like a rock will tell the world the tires are .... and cost him the race. If they last the whole race, the fans ..... that the tires are to good and .... up the racing. Stoner, Pedrosa, Spies and Dovi made the tires work, turning their fastest laps late in the race. Lorenzo can ..... all he wants, his teammate made it work, proving the setup was there, they just didnt find it. Same with Simo, he burned his tires up in 6-7 laps, and the other 3 factory Honda's did just fine.



Gotta agree with you Pov. Also Bridgestone ain't gonna wanna produce a product that possible consumers think is .... because they never perform decently over race distance ( even if they tell everyone before hand thats whats gonna happen ). Its still about bike setup and riding style
 
I'm prob going to get fried for this, but I am actualy in favour of a single control tyre, and I think the present situation where one supplier brings two separate compounds of the same tyre, is by far the best option.

Everyone has the same to work with. All this talk about tyres not suiting a bike is ...., what they mean is that our bike does not have enough grip and we can't compensate the lack of grip with the tyres.

Get the bike right, and it will work the best regardless of which tyres are on the wheels. The people complaining are the people on the bikes with grip problems.



With competition from tyre suppliers, one brand will always have an advantage, and MotoGP simply becomes a matter of who has the best tyres.

If Suzuki are the only runner of Dunlop, and Dunlop come out with some 'off the scale awsome' tyre that no one else has access to, they will be untouchable.

IMHO, the years of sellected riders getting SNS tyres, was crap. It is hard to respect a rider, afer he wins purely because he gets access to tyres no one else can get.



You have a good point........however this then opens up the argument of best bike......which is exactly the same as what you are saying-if Hyosung brings out an amazing machine that proves to be the only bike that works with a very narrowly focused tyre option consistently then Motogp is just becomes about who has the best bike...which is kind of what it has been anyway, only a lot more money needs to be spent to achieve competitiveness when considering all of the regs currently.....at least with unregulated tyre supply we had proper tyre development and satelite teams stood a better chance and as history shows-performed better.......
 
I'm prob going to get fried for this, but I am actualy in favour of a single control tyre, and I think the present situation where one supplier brings two separate compounds of the same tyre, is by far the best option.

Everyone has the same to work with. All this talk about tyres not suiting a bike is ...., what they mean is that our bike does not have enough grip and we can't compensate the lack of grip with the tyres.

Get the bike right, and it will work the best regardless of which tyres are on the wheels. The people complaining are the people on the bikes with grip problems.



With competition from tyre suppliers, one brand will always have an advantage, and MotoGP simply becomes a matter of who has the best tyres.

If Suzuki are the only runner of Dunlop, and Dunlop come out with some 'off the scale awsome' tyre that no one else has access to, they will be untouchable.

IMHO, the years of sellected riders getting SNS tyres, was crap. It is hard to respect a rider, afer he wins purely because he gets access to tyres no one else can get.



Nuts, i made a similar argument before the single tire supplier. The thing is that at Indy, i think they brought a .... product. The choices wer false. Im sure uve heard a wide range if riders complain they dont work in the cold and get caught out. I was skeptical, u can read my previous posts on all thing tires. I hope Indy was the low point and wake up call.
 

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