Rate the competition During the Rossi Era

Is rossi really that good.

Yes he is a great rider, but has he been made to look better than he is due to lack of competition?

He the 2 years prior to Rossi winning, the champions were Kenny Roberts and Alex Craville. And neither of them could beat Doohan.

Then Rossis main rivals in 2000+ was Max, Loris and Sete.

Beat them and you were basically WC.

We've seen how good Loris really is, and max is in WSB and cant even win that. and sete was well, was just the best of the rest.

Now in 2007 and 08, we have pedrosa, stoner, rossi and now horhey and toseland.

I doubt if rossi would ever win another WC, he doesnt put the hard work in as much as the others do to prepare for the season.

Max beat doohan first time out.

I can't be arsed to write anymore

on average 1 in 10 races. hmmmm i like them odds

7 time world champion. You do not "luck your way to 7 world championships. Maybe he was so good during his championship years that he made it look easy (even though we know it is not). He was simply head and shoulders above the rest, should he be penalized for this?

You can hardly call the competition in the Doohan era strong!

You don't have much choice except to beat the riders who are around at the time you are riding, it being difficult to beat riders who are not racing against you.

The only thing I would criticise rossi for is poor judgement; it was laudable for him to go to yamaha and prove himself on another bike but perhaps unwise to stay there for 5 years, it being unlikely on their historical record that they would provide him with a sufficiently good bike over that period of time, and the advent of fast young challengers being fairly inevitable.

That is a valid argument but he did stamp himself as the best of his era.I think Rossi's #1 asset was understanding what the bike needed and being able to communicate it to the technicians.Yamaha during the Biaggi era was somewhat of a joke and Biaggi was the type rider mentally that everything had to be perfect for him to win.By the time he got to Honda,Rossi had mentally ... whipped him into submission.Same with Sete,he was mentally beaten,he knew he was going to make a mistake and hand Rossi the win in the last few laps and Rossi knew it to.There was a lot of riders that bought their way into the series back then and that has changed.If your good enough,or not a complete ....... malcontent,you can get a ride without bringing millions with you and that is another thing Rossi had a big hand in.He made the sport popular enough to where teams could afford to go hire a rider instead of taking however brought the best money package.

I seem to remember KRJR beating Doohan fair and square in the first two races off '99, then Mick had his accident and was forced into retirement. All on the so called '....' Suzuki.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Mar 8 2008, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is rossi really that good.

Yes he is a great rider, but has he been made to look better than he is due to lack of competition?

He the 2 years prior to Rossi winning, the champions were Kenny Roberts and Alex Craville. And neither of them could beat Doohan.

Then Rossis main rivals in 2000+ was Max, Loris and Sete.

Beat them and you were basically WC.

We've seen how good Loris really is, and max is in WSB and cant even win that. and sete was well, was just the best of the rest.

Now in 2007 and 08, we have pedrosa, stoner, rossi and now horhey and toseland.

I doubt if rossi would ever win another WC, he doesnt put the hard work in as much as the others do to prepare for the season.

Why do you want to diminish the importance of Stoner's victories while Rossi is still racing, asserting that this man Rossi has never been that good?!

Any champion can only beat those who are riding with him... That's not his fault and that's all.
The rest is either idle speculation or wishful thinking. If you can't wait to declare Rossi finished, use some patience, just wait some more time and inevitably you'll be finally right - if you are younger than him, you may even hope to see him dead - time is working for you Pinky

I think the field in 2003 was the strongest ever, and it's gotten stronger every year since.

I've see far too many races of Rossi vs Gibernau... i couldn't see them going any faster than they where which was 'mental' at the best of times.

Gibernau on that Honda towards the end of his career was fantastic.

At the end of the day you have a view on competition which i don't agree with but i feel a rider proves they are more than elite by winning championships in different classes.

Some stats for the current GP grid.

1. Valentino Rossi seven world titles (5 x MotoGP, 1 x 250, 1 x 125)
2. Dani Pedrosa three world titles (2 x 250, 1 x 125)
3. Loris Capirossi three world titles (1 x 250, 2 x 125)
4. Colin Edwards two world titles (2 x WSBK)
5. James Toseland two world titles (2 x WSBK)
6. Jorge Lorenzo two world titles (2 x 250)
7. Casey Stoner one world title (MotoGP)
8. Nicky Hayden one world title (MotoGP)
9. Marco Melandri one world title (250)
10. Chris Vermeulen one world title (WSS)
11. Andrea Dovizioso one world title (125)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Mar 9 2008, 01:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>and max is in WSB and cant even win that. and sete was well, was just the best of the rest.

Now in 2007 and 08, we have pedrosa, stoner, rossi and now horhey and toseland.
This is quite a childish comment, with all due respect. To compare Max Biaggi of today, to the Max Biaggi who was basically fresh off a 4 year straight 250cc winning streak is an unfair comparison. Biaggi has deteriorated significantly(mentally, at least).

To be fair and honest as I’ve seen all the races in that era and before.....and to give u my reply to this topic and i know that I’m comparing a previous champ but I think that the in the 500cc’s there wasn’t a better champ then Wayne Rainey!!! He was fair and he beat Schwantz, Gardner, Doohan and the best of them fair and square!!! I say no more!!! And Mr. Rossi was just an evolution of what Mr. Doohan did for Honda with the same legend management and development which was miles ahead of the opposition!!! Yes he did go to Yamaha but with the same managerial genius minds that knew what the Yamaha lacked!! It’s as simple as that!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Mar 9 2008, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I've see far too many races of Rossi vs Gibernau... i couldn't see them going any faster than they where which was 'mental' at the best of times.

Gibernau on that Honda towards the end of his career was fantastic.

At the end of the day you have a view on competition which i don't agree with but i feel a rider proves they are more than elite by winning championships in different classes.

Some stats for the current GP grid.

1. Valentino Rossi seven world titles (5 x MotoGP, 1 x 250, 1 x 125)
2. Dani Pedrosa three world titles (2 x 250, 1 x 125)
3. Loris Capirossi three world titles (1 x 250, 2 x 125)
4. Colin Edwards two world titles (2 x WSBK)
5. James Toseland two world titles (2 x WSBK)
6. Jorge Lorenzo two world titles (2 x 250)
7. Casey Stoner one world title (MotoGP)
8. Nicky Hayden one world title (MotoGP)
9. Marco Melandri one world title (250)
10. Chris Vermeulen one world title (WSS)
11. Andrea Dovizioso one world title (125)

Don’t compare the lower classes there just that!!! we’re talking the real and the fair dinkum class that was 500cc’s and motoGP!!!

the premier class is the real think??? isnt it??? that is what we should comapre and not say that there 3 times champs in 125's 250's etc were talking the rreal thing!!! not pussyfooting around with toys!!!

Why would anyone waste time answering troll talk

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gudang @ Mar 9 2008, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don’t compare the lower classes there just that!!! we’re talking the real and the fair dinkum class that was 500cc’s and motoGP!!!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gudang @ Mar 9 2008, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>the premier class is the real think??? isnt it??? that is what we should comapre and not say that there 3 times champs in 125's 250's etc were talking the rreal thing!!! not pussyfooting around with toys!!!

Well the smaller GP classes and Superbike titles are credentials that confirm riders have what it takes to win world titles. However these titles can be easily brought into question by various circumstances, so are nearly impossible to compare to each other and even harder to compare to motogp titles. Premier class titles cannot be brought into question easily because they are always won against the best riders in the world. I think other world titles can help give an idea of a riders calibre overall but give very few clues about how successfully they can ride motogp bikes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 9 2008, 11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well the smaller GP classes and Superbike titles are credentials that confirm riders have what it takes to win world titles. However these titles can be easily brought into question by various circumstances, so are nearly impossible to compare to each other and even harder to compare to motogp titles. Premier class titles cannot be brought into question easily because they are always won against the best riders in the world. I think other world titles can help give an idea of a riders calibre overall but give very few clues about how successfully they can ride motogp bikes.

Yes Tom and its nice to talk to u mate!!! but the 125’s 250’s are just that!!! Toys!!! U cannot compare a world champ in the top class especially when ur talking 500’s that were so much more erratic to anything in the lower classes!!! U had to be a kamikaze pilot to ride a 500cc gp bike when they were so underdeveloped and without tc!!! And that is why I’m saying that Wayne Rainey was the best that I’ve eva seen...and I’ve seem Kenny Roberts, Freddy Spencer, Randy Mamola, Ron Haslam, Eddie Lawson, Wayne Gardner, Wayne Rainey with Mick Doohan and Kevin Schwantz!!! But Mr. Schwants and Mr. Doohan could neva eva beat Mr. Wayne Rainey!!! Just remember that!!! it took that tragic accident for them to beat HIM and for KS to be world champ and after MD to achive theur WCP's success!!!

And Mr. Schwants & Mr. Doohan would have neva eva won a world championship in the 500cc’s if he didn’t have that tragic accident!!!...well neva if WR was there with his class!!!

please folks look at the stats and compare WR to KS & MD its all there 4u to comapre and ive done so!!! The stats prove everything of how great a rider Wayne Rainey WAS!!! And could have been!!! He would have set the standard ....and never mind Valentino Rossi he would have been a pup and shitting yellow if u know what I mean!!!...or do u???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gudang @ Mar 9 2008, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And Mr. Schwants & Mr. Doohan would have neva eva won a world championship in the 500cc’s if he didn’t have that tragic accident!!!...well neva if WR was there with his class!!!
I share your regard for wayne rainey, but doohan was doing fairly well against him before his own crash in 1992, albeit perhaps on a better bike. I think rossi rates with both of them though.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 10 2008, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I share your regard for wayne rainey, but doohan was doing fairly well against him before his own crash in 1992, albeit perhaps on a better bike. I think rossi rates with both of them though.

'michaelm' NO HE WASENT!!! If u look at the stats and i know that MD did do and beat WR but if u look at most of the gp’s WR was the KING!!! And MD just didn’t have the mustard to beat him especially at the Australian GP at Phillip Island!!! Where WR was king!!! Please look at the stats and compare WR to MD!!!! And then u will see what an awesome rider WR was!!! I’m an aussie and I really support our riders but WR was a legend in comparison to what we eva had!!!