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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Apr 16 2009, 09:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Casey could learn so much from Valentino and Nicky. They say what they want without being petulant tools. I imagine Stoner is mildly autistic/asperger and very uncomfortable in intense social situations. It may be why he's so good. But grow the .... up and work on your marketability. Also, Casey's 'unvarnished truth' is often overshadowed by his raw emotional state at the current time. He was wrong about Qatar on Monday, just like he was wrong about Laguna '08.


Gee mate ...... its GP racing, not a TV serial!! ........ maybe it is a .... series after all, I must admit what messes it up for me is all the "personalities" etc. that have come in since Dorna got hold of it all. Maybe you should hire some rerun DVD of old tear jerker TV serials and give up watching MGP ..


But nonetheless I still watch it ..... cos its basically about prototype bike racing ...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Apr 15 2009, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You really don't like Stoner do you (you ain't alone so don't go getting all defensive)?

You may very well be surprised about how many of these guys react in social situations in which they do not have control so I would be very careful about casting aspersions that Stoner is 'mildly autistic' as you so put it. Do you have a level of training to make that aspersion or have you had exposure to that type of diagnosis?

The fact that a person delivers the 'unvarnished truth' in an emotional state is what makes it so appealing as we see the true body language which highlights the real intent of the message. We see the excitement as a rider 'bounces' around as they have enjoyed themselves, or we see the scowl and furrowed brow of a worried rider or we see anger in their eyes which IMO shows a true character/personality.

As for CS' being petulant, again all riders are that is their nature as they are highly strung athletes who are all incredibly self absorbed and who live in their own worlds (like most top flight athletes).

There are good and bad stories (of varying degrees) about all racers and yes some involve ridiculous levels of petulance through to some incredible stories of sheer class and quality by certain individuals, most of which will go unreported in teh mainstream as 'they arent good press'. So just remember that what is seen on TV is often not the real person.






Garry

Ayrton Senna was an example of a person who posses not only great qualities on track....but even more so as a person outside of racing. He donated millions of dollars Anonymously to charities because he didn't want his own family to find out where some of his money went. Rossi on the other hand..... nevermind I don't want to stir up trouble.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Apr 15 2009, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ayrton Senna was an example of a person who posses not only great qualities on track....but even more so as a person outside of racing. He donated millions of dollars Anonymously to charities because he didn't want his own family to find out where some of his money went. Rossi on the other hand..... nevermind I don't want to stir up trouble.


I can tell one of the often maligned Max Biaggi that occurred at Phillip Island (story as relayed to me by one of the involved).

Was during his GP days and a number of the volunteer officials were in one of the Pizzeria's in Cowes and had noticed Max at the back of the restaurant and given their impressions formed from media and that he was there for dinner simply went about their business and left him alone.

Max finished dinner and left.

These officials went to pay the bill and found that Max had already paid for them and left enough monies to cover any additional beer or two for each. Their opinion of Max changed.






Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Apr 15 2009, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You really don't like Stoner do you (you ain't alone so don't go getting all defensive)?
remember that what is seen on TV is often not the real person.
Garry, you seem level headed. Nice post.

I can't relate to Casey. It's probably cause he hasn't lived for anything but bikes. He reminds me of Dani, without the influence of Puig. I'm also sick of seeing micro 5'5 130lbs men ride bikes. He seems miserable. The setup was never right, the passes were a little too close, i don't wanna race on Monday, Dovi why can't you follow my lines, Marco you're a bum...

You're rich, with a hot wife who obviously loves you, and you get to ride sick bikes for a living. Enjoy yourself!

I wanna say I respect Stacey Moaner as a rider, but I don't even understand his style enough know. Sure he's 10x better than me, yet he seems to care 10x less.

Rossi is uber sensitive, Nicky hangs it out, Pedrosa is super technical, Lorenzo is super smooth, Dovi is very adaptable, Edwards is superstrong, Randy let's the limit find him, Loris knows all the tricks, Kallio's a quick study, Elias plays to his strengths, Melandri is emotional, Vermulen is talented but too passive, DeAngelis is reckless, Nakano was cautious, etc.

What is Casey? An enigma to me!

I'm pretty sure Casey has a trick he's keeping to himself on the Ducati. I can't blame him, but perhaps holding the secret may make him doubt his true talent. That may explain why he's so miserable. He know's it's not just him doing the riding. He's scared he'll face mediocrity when others learn his technique. I really hope Kallio figures out Casey's trick, and brings the fight to him hard. I love Nicky, but just don't think he's technical enough.

It can't just be about prototyping. It's not an engineering course. The riders should and do matter.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Apr 15 2009, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Casey could learn so much from Valentino and Nicky. They say what they want without being petulant tools. I imagine Stoner is mildly autistic/asperger and very uncomfortable in intense social situations. It may be why he's so good. But grow the .... up and work on your marketability. Also, Casey's 'unvarnished truth' is often overshadowed by his raw emotional state at the current time. He was wrong about Qatar on Monday, just like he was wrong about Laguna '08.
I am actually warming to valentino again, he really is verbally adroit and very amusing even not speaking in his first language and mostly exhibits a considerable amount of class; I have never had anything but admiration for his riding.

However, at the moment in all of the world they appear to only be able to find 2 blokes who can ride these things at or close to their full potential, and if only one of them has a notably warm and engaging personality then that's the way it is. This sort of criticism ie basically that he is not valentino cannot really be answered by anyone.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Apr 16 2009, 12:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What is Casey? An enigma to me!

I'm pretty sure Casey has a trick he's keeping to himself on the Ducati. I can't blame him, but perhaps holding the secret may make him doubt his true talent. That may explain why he's so miserable. He know's it's not just him doing the riding. He's scared he'll face mediocrity when others learn his technique. I really hope Kallio figures out Casey's trick, and brings the fight to him hard. I love Nicky, but just don't think he's technical enough.

It can't just be about prototyping. It's not an engineering course. The riders should and do matter.


To me CS is not miserable but focused in much the same way as the likes of Doohan, Rainey, Lawson and others have been. Basically, when at the track it is his job to race motorcycles and he is not the kind that appreciates people getting in his way whilst he attempts to find the excellence that he so deeply craves.

To you and others it may seem that he is miserable but to me it is his way of working, just as we all perform our daily jobs in difefernt manners, so do racers.

As for the 'secret' I greatly doubt that there is anything that cannot be 'found' by others and I further doubt that he does not want to share it.

I say this as he started in 2007 on teh Ducati having been third or lower choice from LCR and immediately we know what happened. If there was a secret it is a freak thing and not a designed secret for himself given that he had no input into the initial development of that bike whatsoever.

Additionally he came across last year as increasingly frustrated with Melandri's performances (or lack thereof) which shows me that he wanted Melandri to acheive results. No doubt his feelings were selfish as he woudl have wanted MM to get results in front of Rossi but not in front of Stoner, but still the fact remains that he was clearly frustrated.

Given this, if there was a 'secret' one would expect that CS would show/advise MM so that MM could then provide the necessary assistance, but we know how MM went throughout the year. So if the 'secret' would mean that anyone could ride the bike then I would expect that MM would have produced results.

Couple this with the comments from Hayden thus far that point to CS spending time with him sorting through the aspects of the Ducati and I get the impression that CS will not hoard a 'secret' that allows the rider to go faster.

As for Kallio, early signs are impressive and I do hope that he does develop into another rider capable of challenging the front pack as it will just add another variable.






Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Apr 16 2009, 09:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Garry, you seem level headed. Nice post.

I can't relate to Casey. It's probably cause he hasn't lived for anything but bikes. He reminds me of Dani, without the influence of Puig. I'm also sick of seeing micro 5'5 130lbs men ride bikes. He seems miserable. The setup was never right, the passes were a little too close, i don't wanna race on Monday, Dovi why can't you follow my lines, Marco you're a bum...

You're rich, with a hot wife who obviously loves you, and you get to ride sick bikes for a living. Enjoy yourself!

I wanna say I respect Stacey Moaner as a rider, but I don't even understand his style enough know. Sure he's 10x better than me, yet he seems to care 10x less.

Rossi is uber sensitive, Nicky hangs it out, Pedrosa is super technical, Lorenzo is super smooth, Dovi is very adaptable, Edwards is superstrong, Randy let's the limit find him, Loris knows all the tricks, Kallio's a quick study, Elias plays to his strengths, Melandri is emotional, Vermulen is talented but too passive, DeAngelis is reckless, Nakano was cautious, etc.

What is Casey? An enigma to me!

I'm pretty sure Casey has a trick he's keeping to himself on the Ducati. I can't blame him, but perhaps holding the secret may make him doubt his true talent. That may explain why he's so miserable. He know's it's not just him doing the riding. He's scared he'll face mediocrity when others learn his technique. I really hope Kallio figures out Casey's trick, and brings the fight to him hard. I love Nicky, but just don't think he's technical enough.

It can't just be about prototyping. It's not an engineering course. The riders should and do matter.


Clarke fair enough points, and on the information yoiu have been given, ie what you have seen on tv/read on posts its fair enough you think that.

BUt allow me to 'defend' Casey here and attempt to dispel some of your concerns. First and foremost Casey has perspective, he is not naturally comforatable with the limelight, he has grown up in obscurity and been propelled into the limelight. What you percieve as a bad attitude or discontent with a situation is more so unfarmiliarity with a particular situation. He is still very young and is learning how to deal with situations in life.

Yes he is rich/has how wife/all the rest of it...and he does enjoy it. I cant see how you would suggest he does not enjoy his job with the tiny snippets you see of him....an interview every 2 weeks and 20 or so laps with his helmet on.

Relating to Caseys uncertainty of his talent, due to his 'trick' he is keeping to himself/fear others will find it out, this is a pretty moot point. Casey does not have a trick, he has talent. He has the ability to maximise the bike via correct set up, fast reactions, good feel, experiance and natural ability etc... if it was a single 'trick' that made him fast would you not think everyone would have worked it out? I mean look at the resources behind say Melandri last year....he had mechanics/techs and telemetry and so on, if it was a 'trick' that casey was preforming on the bike then it would be easy to spot on the telemetry and in turn emulate by another rider. A testiment to this is that Suppo said in testing that Niky held the gas open through much more violent shakes than Casey ever did...but he still was not as fast.

Casey is fast because he is brilliant, in the same was that Vale is. As long as he is at the top of his game he will be untouchable, by anyone other than Rossi that is.

Also you stated you cant relate coz hes lived for nothing but bikes, well every single one of those guys on the grid have lived for nothing but bikes. That is there whole life, they live out of suitcases and in hotels, they deal with jet lag week in week out all so they can race. This is a point that he shares with every other rider.

Your list of other riders traits was pretty accurate and a good point. You could not quantify what casey was.....you stated that he is an enigma to you. Prehaps that is his trait, prehaps he is so fast on what appears to be an unridable bike because he is an enigma. Or possibly you could not quantify his main trait because he is just as normal as the rest of us.

Lets not forget he is just a 23 year old trying to do his best, he is in a glaring spot light as he is dueling with the GOAT. Sure yoiu may react to situations different and your opinions are yours to give.

But 90% of us know these riders enough to really make a call about what they do and dont care about/like. I know casey reads stuff on youtube & forums that fanboys write about him, the bagging he gets etc... sure it gets to him but he has a job to do and he has goten to where he is because he is focused. I just struggle to see how people can so easily label him or any other rider when we really know so little about them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Apr 16 2009, 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You're rich, with a hot wife who obviously loves you, and you get to ride sick bikes for a living. Enjoy yourself!

By what possible measure do you think Stoner isn't enjoying his life

He ain't a clown ...... its a breath of fresh air to have a Rider who isn't trying to be a circus clown ....


Its horses for courses man ....... you need a TV personality to win races for you ..... thats your thing ....

Can anyone possibly imagine Stoner being " the showman" ...... thank christ no!


Gee this whinge is the ultimate ........ now he's not "of the right personality" for you

He looked damn happy last Monday to me.

Though I disagree with some points above, I really appreciate the open and pleasant discourse. Not a pinky thread. I'd really love to see Casey open up. If not, I'll work on getting his wife to open up at Motegi. Paddock passes!!!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 16 2009, 12:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>and yet if Pinky was a Rossifan saying the same about Stoner ..... he'd be your hero ..... get real kiddo you are " of the same mold" as Pinky ........ only at least I think Pinky does bring up some good points ..... albiet somewhat offensively but you ....... all you do is ..... about personalities on here ........ buggerall about the actual racing


Kudos for reading everyone of my posts man, see Barry this is where you miss the point! It dose'nt matter that its Valentino, in fact I get more pissed at the slimy digs at Hayden and I would'nt even consder myself a Hayden fan. Now your really showing how much of a plonker you are Barry, Pinky brings his points straight from motogp.com and retorts them here.
Its funny that you think I'm from the the same mold as Pinky because believe it or not I actually think the exact same as you only for one exception, Pinky's here to throw .... whereas your here because you want to bore us to death with your ........ theories and notions pretending to be some kind of know it all. I've lost count how many times I've seen your ........ been called

Unlike you, Pinky and Co. I've no worries naming the people I'm insulting, ye just like to generalize us all as "Rossi fans". Pinky insults everyone but Stoner and thats ok but if you log on to start .... just be ready. Thats why I can respect your post even if you are being Pinkys mommy

As for talking about racing, I like the racing to speak for itself. I'm not into fantasising about what will happen next race and I'm not into analysing every little detail. I'm interested in the racing and the results as they always have the last say

No worries mate, yep we all have different points of view. Good to hear them even if they are different from each other.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Apr 16 2009, 02:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'd really love to see Casey open up.

What you see is what you get with Stoner ..... as it is with other riders.

I don't know why you don't get it ...... perhaps its a cultural thing but ..... Stoner's not your boyfriend ...... or whatever ....... I assumed you were a male ........ all this Stoner needs to be a freak show/suck up/circus-clown, is a pretty "Gay" proposition by Australian Standards ....

Which is fine by me, because it makes the task at hand less distracted.

He's a motorcycle racer, not an amusing personality. Why you feel the need for him to "suck-up" to you is beyond me



You whinge about Pinky, however I find your crap the same as Pinky's ...... only you waste more words saying the same .... he does, though at least he seems to know and backs the stuff he says

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Apr 16 2009, 04:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Though I disagree with some points above, I really appreciate the open and pleasant discourse. Not a pinky thread. I'd really love to see Casey open up. If not, I'll work on getting his wife to open up at Motegi. Paddock passes!!!!!!


No problems as it really is a case of what pleases on, may piss off another and so on with personalities and sports.

But as for the highlighted section, just be careful as I am told that Adriana's dad can get a mite nasty.






Gaz

Vale in his GPone interview mentions that he expected Dovi in the podium but found Lorenzo. That sounds interesting. He previously said Honda is .... now (and has to improve a lot). Does this mean he rates Dovi higher than Orgay!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Apr 15 2009, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi is uber sensitive, Nicky hangs it out, Pedrosa is super technical, Lorenzo is super smooth, Dovi is very adaptable, Edwards is superstrong, Randy let's the limit find him, Loris knows all the tricks, Kallio's a quick study, Elias plays to his strengths, Melandri is emotional, Vermulen is talented but too passive, DeAngelis is reckless, Nakano was cautious, etc.

What is Casey? An enigma to me!
I like this part of your post. But I don't think Casey is that much of an enigma. He's fairly straight forward and tells people what he thinks, which is nothing like a mystery. I think is002 pretty much nailed it.

Not everybody can be Rossi man, the guy was born with an outgoing personality that many love. I actually like Stoner's approach myself because I can identify with it. Look at Rossi's dad, the man is also outgoing, have you seen Casey's parents? They are fairly reserved people. That is how Casey is, and it seems to rub 'some' people the wrong way, just like sometimes Rossi's antics and production celebration rub 'others' wrong. And4ew said he felt Casey was being ungracious because he mentioned he could have had more speed in the race. I looked at that comment as him simply telling us he didn't perform at his best potential, which is what these personalities types say because they are their own greatest critics. Here is an example, I think of all the mistakes I've made on a trackday, even if the lap times where my personal best. It rubs An4rew wrong but by the same token Rossi blaming his tires might rub others wrong. We can't accept it may simply be fact that his tire choice was a bit of an issue or that Casey was self-criticizing and sharing their thoughts honestly with us. I guess it just depends which glasses we have on.

I'm not a fan of either of them in the classic sense, my blind loyalty belongs to Hayden worship; but I have yet to figure out why people don't like Stoner.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 16 2009, 06:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not a fan of either of them in the classic sense, my blind loyalty belongs to Hayden worship; but I have yet to figure out why people don't like Stoner.


I have to say that I agree totally here with regards to the Stoner sentiments Jumkie, but I worship none of the current crop (nor really those that have gone before).

Whilst I do have my theories as to why Stoner cops so much flack most of it is borne in that we are in an era where we have a motorcycle racer who just happens to covet the adoration and attention that he receives. This is not necessarily a bad thing as it suits his style and really IMO Rossi is the first genuine Motorcycle Racing megastar (just as Tiger Woods is to Golf, Jordan was to Basketball).

Essentially now and as with the other examples, every rider is now measured against the megastar as the public having now experienced what they see as accessibility now want all of their 'heroes' (term used loosely) to be the same. Sadly this adoration of the megastar (and that is not a criticism) means that those who have differing personalities or behaviours are seen as flawed and open to often unfair criticisms.

Basically nowadays it seems as though many fans want everyone to ride like Rossi, speak like Rossi, smile like Rossi, to basically be Rossi and feel let down when people cannot.

In many ways it isn't about blind adoration so much as expectations as once people become used to something once considered a luxury, it then becomes expected (ie. obtaining a licence is now considered a right, not a luxury)








Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fernando_Loris!!! @ Apr 14 2009, 11:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well hello everyone!

Did anyone notice a red zig zagged flag covering the Australian one during the national anthem?! That was me

And everyone, as Bahrain is very close to Qatar, I can tell you that my mother, whos memory is well and strong stated the last time it rained like that was in the 1960's. It is unprecedented what happened that day. Anyway iv just spent 4 hours at airports so I will go sleep I will try to give a full report later!
Hello F-L! Welcome to our little corner of the bike racing/internet world. Good to have ya here!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (surendhar @ Apr 16 2009, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Vale in his GPone interview mentions that he expected Dovi in the podium but found Lorenzo. That sounds interesting. He previously said Honda is .... now (and has to improve a lot). Does this mean he rates Dovi higher than Orgay!!!!

I don't think there is much love lost between those two, it must be a very competitive garage to say the least. I think Lorenzo will cop a few "narky remarks" this year.

In the podium interviews they got to Lorenzo and described him first as Valentino Rossi's team mate, I'm not sure Lorenzo liked it.


Matter of fact in was a bit of a downer Podium for some reason ..... the only happy one was Stoner.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Apr 16 2009, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wanna say I respect Stacey Moaner as a rider, but I don't even understand his style enough know. Sure he's 10x better than me, yet he seems to care 10x less.

Rossi is uber sensitive, Nicky hangs it out, Pedrosa is super technical, Lorenzo is super smooth, Dovi is very adaptable, Edwards is superstrong, Randy let's the limit find him, Loris knows all the tricks, Kallio's a quick study, Elias plays to his strengths, Melandri is emotional, Vermulen is talented but too passive, DeAngelis is reckless, Nakano was cautious, etc.

What is Casey? An enigma to me!

You have to look at the different personalities of these guys.
Casey Stoner is a shy country kid from a small town. He went to a country school where he was picked on for being a small kid, and didn't have a lot of friends. He's never going to be like a flamboyant Itralian or Spaniard.
I know people who know Casey pretty well, and they say he is totally different away from the spotlight. A really relaxed, happy guy, but he is a shy kid, and doesn't handle the attention well.
You can't question the guys ability, or commitment. Look at how he got to GP, moving to Europe at 15, without knowing anyone, unable to speak any European language, and without any money. All he wanted to do was go race bikes. The guy is living his dream, racing GP bikes against (and beating) one of his biggest idols, and getting paid to do it.
I would also say that Casey is not in it for the money. If you can believe what you read, he is still earning less than most of the GP riders.

He is a tool at times, but probably its because it matters so much to him, and he is absolutely passionate about being the best.
I was probably a tool at 22 too, and I wasn't racing GP bikes, getting paid .... loads of money, and with a smoking hot wife.
Full credit to him.