qatar

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Apr 14 2009, 10:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>he thinks contradiction is something that is stuck to his head


Right and thats funny how? All the above shows is that you and Tom are anal .... wits
I think we finally found the Pinky and the Brain match. Barry your out!

The only ........ round here is you ya ......' cum guzzler

Tom and Pinky or is it Pinky and Tom

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Apr 13 2009, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>nice i guess they thought ahead and a dam good job they have done also. maybe thats why they tried the alloy combination also when testing looking which material is kinder to the rubber and gave the best feedback?

crazy how small improvments can make such a big difference


i asked over a year ago about tyres on the duke.... i mean something that revs so high and vibrates alot that bike really does scream but still doesnt destroy tyres like the much smoother yamaha..... you would think it would be the other way round.

I'd say it's a combination of the CF swingarm being more responsive, and having less mass equaling gentler mass/energy transfer to the rear tire. ... plus the firing order of the engine. The Yamaha people are saying its the long bang firing order that allows Spies to be equally comfortable with any tire combo. And there was no evidence (that I know of) pointing out Rossi as having too much tire wear at the end of the race and his engine uses (essentially) the same long bang technology as the Spies bike. And no I don't mean to imply there is a "similarity" between the Yamaha and Ducati, my point being only that there is a clear emerging pattern showing that V twin-style firing orders can decisively effect tire wear in the same way they affect traction in general.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geonerd @ Apr 14 2009, 09:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> (Sorry, can't resist!)
"Watch out, he'll jump up and punch you in the kneecaps!"

The bump sure knocked the fight out of him. He dropped like a stone afterward.


As if DeAngelis ramming him like that wasn't scary enough, the next two guys catching him from behind were Elias and DePuniet. I'm not surprised he didn't put up much of a fight against those two.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stevo @ Apr 14 2009, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

As if DeAngelis ramming him like that wasn't scary enough, the next two guys catching him from behind were Elias and DePuniet. I'm not surprised he didn't put up much of a fight against those two.

the most entertaining thing during this race was watching DeAngelis retension pedders sphincter....

i love motogp but i am also asking myself "why did they bother to reschedule this race?".
kudos to the riders for having a go after the turmoil of sunday night but the end result was decided in the first few laps again. the french have a saying that descibed this race perfectly...

"the more things change, the more they stay the same"...

(loosely translated BTW).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Apr 14 2009, 07:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>the most entertaining thing during this race was watching DeAngelis retension pedders sphincter....

i love motogp but i am also asking myself "why did they bother to reschedule this race?".
kudos to the riders for having a go after the turmoil of sunday night but the end result was decided in the first few laps again. the french have a saying that descibed this race perfectly...

"the more things change, the more they stay the same"...

(loosely translated BTW).
The result up front was settled rapidly. The middle and rear of the pack shuffled around a bit throughout the race.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Apr 14 2009, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>the french have a saying that descibed this race perfectly...

"the more things change, the more they stay the same"...

(loosely translated BTW).
'Plus ca change, plus cest la meme chose' - Circumstances; Rush (Hemispheres)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 10 2009, 10:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Last year at Qatar was Stoner's most measured coolest performance of the season. It was as if he knew all along he could win it, and sat back while the others up front beat each other up before eventually pulling the pin - very impressive at the time. Weird, it wasn't as if he had to worry about tyre conservation. It's uncharacteristic of Casey to hold back...speculation was at the time that he may have been running some fuel saving engine mapping for an initial pre planned duration, before reverting to full on 'Preziosi' power.

This was apparently the case this year, where it seems Stoner ran the first 10 laps of the race in this 'fuel economy' map. Going by MotoGp.com he says he 'ran higher cornering speeds and higher gears' meaning had enough fuel to nail it at the end. As opposed to a switch on the bike to alter the mapping - which I suggested was the case last year, it would seem that the switch to this mode was simply engaged in his head, which is impressive...being that many are adamant that Rossi has resided there since Laguna

There's no doubt that fuel economy is still a big engineering issue. Spalding pointed out that the lower spec Honda of De Angelis, which gives away 1000rpm to this years factory bike, was (unlike Elias) refueled after the sighting lap in order to wring every last bit of power out of the engine . Judging by the warm down lap they'd done their sums perfectly.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Apr 14 2009, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'd say it's a combination of the CF swingarm being more responsive, and having less mass equaling gentler mass/energy transfer to the rear tire. ... plus the firing order of the engine. The Yamaha people are saying its the long bang firing order that allows Spies to be equally comfortable with any tire combo. And there was no evidence (that I know of) pointing out Rossi as having too much tire wear at the end of the race and his engine uses (essentially) the same long bang technology as the Spies bike. And no I don't mean to imply there is a "similarity" between the Yamaha and Ducati, my point being only that there is a clear emerging pattern showing that V twin-style firing orders can decisively effect tire wear in the same way they affect traction in general.

Right. Furusawa always said the Yamaha engine 'emulates' a V4 power wavelength (whatever that may mean) so there was no need to actually design a physical V4 engine when you can have a 'virtual' one with the advantage of the IL4, i.e. a better handling, shorter bike.

But I am beginning to wonder if the venerable M1 design may have actually reached the peak of its potential now, its 'perfection' (hence the good all-round feeling experienced by all its riders, which does not mean the bike is the fastest on the planet), whereas the Ducati continues to evolve and improve a more radical bike design with a lot of potential, which has not yet peaked.

Ducati could well be the pioneers the 'next' MotoGP bike type, to which a new generation of young riders can adapt (Stoner the first, followed maybe by Kallio and then others).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 14 2009, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Right. Furusawa always said the Yamaha engine 'emulates' a V4 power wavelength (whatever that may mean) so there was no need to actually design a physical V4 engine when you can have a 'virtual' one with the advantage of the IL4, i.e. a better handling, shorter bike.

But I am beginning to wonder if the venerable M1 design may have actually reached the peak of its potential now, its 'perfection' (hence the good all-round feeling experienced by all its riders, which does not mean the bike is the fastest on the planet), whereas the Ducati continues to evolve and improve a more radical bike design with a lot of potential, which has not yet peaked.

Ducati could well be the pioneers the 'next' MotoGP bike type, to which a new generation of young riders can adapt (Stoner the first, followed maybe by Kallio and then others).
Brilliant post

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Apr 14 2009, 07:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i think rossi feels he really has the perfect machine. he has been talking about how good the his bike is.

and to be blown away like that is not good. hes thinking what can i do to catch him. i am riding at my limit and on a bike i like.

maybe he is thinking that stoner is really faster than him.

whereas last year, when he was beat he knew he didnt have the bike he wanted, so he knew he could improve.


you are an ... and your coments are worthless, but i do think rossi did looked shocked but because he probably was wondering about the tires.

he got a panic on and mashed his tyres cos casey got away at the start, he is usually good with conserving rubber but as you seen for yourself this didnt happen at qatar.

ducati thought ahead probably knowing tyre quality wouldnt be the same and so they went with CF.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 14 2009, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Right. Furusawa always said the Yamaha engine 'emulates' a V4 power wavelength (whatever that may mean) so there was no need to actually design a physical V4 engine when you can have a 'virtual' one with the advantage of the IL4, i.e. a better handling, shorter bike.

But I am beginning to wonder if the venerable M1 design may have actually reached the peak of its potential now, its 'perfection' (hence the good all-round feeling experienced by all its riders, which does not mean the bike is the fastest on the planet), whereas the Ducati continues to evolve and improve a more radical bike design with a lot of potential, which has not yet peaked.

Ducati could well be the pioneers the 'next' MotoGP bike type, to which a new generation of young riders can adapt (Stoner the first, followed maybe by Kallio and then others).


awesome post its a pitty winky doesnt have the brain capacity that you do

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 14 2009, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Right. Furusawa always said the Yamaha engine 'emulates' a V4 power wavelength (whatever that may mean) so there was no need to actually design a physical V4 engine when you can have a 'virtual' one with the advantage of the IL4, i.e. a better handling, shorter bike.

But I am beginning to wonder if the venerable M1 design may have actually reached the peak of its potential now, its 'perfection' (hence the good all-round feeling experienced by all its riders, which does not mean the bike is the fastest on the planet), whereas the Ducati continues to evolve and improve a more radical bike design with a lot of potential, which has not yet peaked.

Ducati could well be the pioneers the 'next' MotoGP bike type, to which a new generation of young riders can adapt (Stoner the first, followed maybe by Kallio and then others).
I agree, excellent post. Whilst the new bike seems to be better on a clear track at previous bogey tracks like jerez whether it can compete in a dog-fight is as yet unproven though. I am sure rossi could also ride the thing although he might disappprove of it philosophically.

i´m so happy about the 6th place from Alex

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 14 2009, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Right. Furusawa always said the Yamaha engine 'emulates' a V4 power wavelength (whatever that may mean) so there was no need to actually design a physical V4 engine when you can have a 'virtual' one with the advantage of the IL4, i.e. a better handling, shorter bike.

But I am beginning to wonder if the venerable M1 design may have actually reached the peak of its potential now, its 'perfection' (hence the good all-round feeling experienced by all its riders, which does not mean the bike is the fastest on the planet), whereas the Ducati continues to evolve and improve a more radical bike design with a lot of potential, which has not yet peaked.

Ducati could well be the pioneers the 'next' MotoGP bike type, to which a new generation of young riders can adapt (Stoner the first, followed maybe by Kallio and then others).

I agree that Ducati's more radical approach may be the future for GP bike design, especially if young riders can learn the trade on it and be successful. However i don't think the M1's engine configuration will be called into question before its chassis if the new Ducati should develop a clear technical advantage. But for Yamaha and the others to start panicing i think they'd want to see Ducati's ruling the timesheets with more than 1 rider, like Yamaha do now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AlexdeAngelis-Fan @ Apr 14 2009, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i´m so happy about the 6th place from Alex
The 'bot wasn't - in fact he was reported to be ripping mad. Encouraging though to learn that HRC have at least made some progress during the winter refining the 'emotions chip', if not the bike.

Race was over in the first corner, there was no way Rossi or anyone was going to catch Stoner, he owns Qatar. Rossi put up a great effort once getting into 2nd position to try and chase down Stoner, but Stoner still had more in him and just pulled away. No random crash out while in the lead for Stoner, he is focused and the bike is working perfectly for him.

3rd - Lorenzo, great performance, thought we would have a classic Lorenzo / Dovi battle back and forth, but once Jorge got past Dovi it was check out time.

4th - Edwards, very solid performance, beating out all the factory Suzukis and Hondas.

5th - Dovi, good job bring the factory Honda home.

6th - DeA, excellent performance on the satellite Honda, but questionable riding hitting Pedrosa.

7th - Vermi, right about where we expected you.

8th - Kallio, wow, great ride for your maiden voyage. Keep up the good work.

9th - Elias, good job getting top 10, but still you were beat by a non-factory Honda (DeA)

10th - RdP, you didn't crash! Great finish on the customer Honda. Bring back Playboy!

Looks like another season of Rossi and Stoner trading off wins where there is no battle going on during the races.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ Apr 14 2009, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Race was over in the first corner, there was no way Rossi or anyone was going to catch Stoner, he owns Qatar. Rossi put up a great effort once getting into 2nd position to try and chase down Stoner, but Stoner still had more in him and just pulled away. No random crash out while in the lead for Stoner, he is focused and the bike is working perfectly for him.

3rd - Lorenzo, great performance, thought we would have a classic Lorenzo / Dovi battle back and forth, but once Jorge got past Dovi it was check out time.

4th - Edwards, very solid performance, beating out all the factory Suzukis and Hondas.

5th - Dovi, good job bring the factory Honda home.

6th - DeA, excellent performance on the satellite Honda, but questionable riding hitting Pedrosa.

7th - Vermi, right about where we expected you.

8th - Kallio, wow, great ride for your maiden voyage. Keep up the good work.

9th - Elias, good job getting top 10, but still you were beat by a non-factory Honda (DeA)

10th - RdP, you didn't crash! Great finish on the customer Honda. Bring back Playboy!

Looks like another season of Rossi and Stoner trading off wins where there is no battle going on during the races.

Fair assessment - can't dispute any of that, although Dovi definitely wasn't playing anymore due to tyre degradation - mainly the rear. He's definitely up to the chuppa chump challenge again

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 14 2009, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Right. Furusawa always said the Yamaha engine 'emulates' a V4 power wavelength (whatever that may mean) so there was no need to actually design a physical V4 engine when you can have a 'virtual' one with the advantage of the IL4, i.e. a better handling, shorter bike.

But I am beginning to wonder if the venerable M1 design may have actually reached the peak of its potential now, its 'perfection' (hence the good all-round feeling experienced by all its riders, which does not mean the bike is the fastest on the planet), whereas the Ducati continues to evolve and improve a more radical bike design with a lot of potential, which has not yet peaked.

Ducati could well be the pioneers the 'next' MotoGP bike type, to which a new generation of young riders can adapt (Stoner the first, followed maybe by Kallio and then others).
OK i'm joining the others,great post.Yamaha apparently has the benefits of a v twin or v4 tractionwise and gets a fantastic throttle respons,plus maybe easier to get peak hp than a v engine of what i have read.
I'm not 100% sure but quite sure it's like that.Anyway it's in the results.Yamahas worst track,Stoner then Yamaha,Yamaha,dot,Yamaha.(Ofcourse it's because of other things than the engine too,Valentino's developing skills for one) I think it's going to be even better in Superbike with this engineconfiguration.
Of what i have understood from what the factoryriders say in general when they get a new bike/engine upgrade is that most manufacturers take it in steps.First peak hp then smoothness then peak again.Not nesseserely in that order but roughly.Factory Honda for instance apparently has got great peak hp now and are looking for smoothness in the next step.I thought the Yamaha engine was in it's peak already in last year for sure.By then they had done fantastic developement as i understand it in two huge leaps above Kawasaki who i believe already in 2007/2008 said ,we can do no more with this.We have to try a screamer and so on.BUT i was dead wrong as always.

Colin Edwards said the 09 engine has so much torque that he can ride it like a 990.But as you said,maybe there won't be any more huge leaps in peak hp only a more robust longer lasting engine perhaps.
I also agree on Ducati perhaps being pioneers.I can't wait till Kallio gets his hands on all developed carbon parts.

I wonder if Kallio will have something new for Motegi race already.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wander @ Apr 14 2009, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wonder if Kallio will have something new for Motegi race already.
A full Factory ride? ..Christ, I'm turning into Pinky