Putting Lorenzo under pressure

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 1 2010, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Alternatively they may be so worried about stoner that they are laying the ground for rossi to be the clear number 1 rider from the first race , or they think lorenzo has already made the decision to leave.
Or that they've already decided on Rossi for 2011.

I know it's MCN, but if this article is true, I find it a bit shocking. Usually the baseless inflammatory remarks come from the Puig camp.

Let's be honest, Lorenzo's situation couldn't be more different from Rossi's.

Rossi was expected to beat a first time champ on a wounded 2001 Suzuki, and an aging Spanish world champion who had accomplished almost nothing since halfway through 1999. Rossi had a cake walk to his first title. The cake walk to his second title was even easier b/c Suzuki and Yamaha forgot to show up for the 4-stroke era. Gibby and Max tried to make things interesting, but I really believe KRJR was the only person on the grid from 2000-2004 who had the talent to give Rossi fits. Roberts was stuck on a bad bike.

Just think about how much harder things were for the legend who came right before Rossi. Doohan was dropped into the deep end with Lawson, Rainey, Gardner, and Schwantz.

Lorenzo is the #2 rider and his teammate is the GOAT. Furthermore, Lorenzo isn't even the heir apparent b/c Stoner has proven he can beat Rossi at will if he stays healthy and avoids media scrutiny. Hayden hasn't really brought anything to bother Lornenzo, but he is still a potential threat, especially if the go back to 1000cc machines with added fuel. Spies isn't making life easy on Lorenzo either.

Not questioning Rossi's talent or trying to make excuses for Lorenzo, but the expectations placed upon Lorenzo must be reasonable!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Apr 2 2010, 05:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Or that they've already decided on Rossi for 2011.
You wouldn't think they would be saying this if they intended to keep lorenzo.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Apr 2 2010, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner has proven he can beat Rossi at will if he stays healthy and avds media scrutiny.

this has certainly been proved wrong many times in the past couple of years


A world champ is a world champ. Krjr was the world champ in 01, not to mention ex world champs like biaggi and creville in the field. What about just surviving a race let alone a whole season on a 500? Calling rossi's first motogp title 'somewhat easy' is pushing the boundaries

If vr's title in 2001 was gifted because the world champ was on a bad bike, then the same could be said for cs's 07 title. The world champ and the goat were both on bad bikes that year.........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 2 2010, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>this has certainly been proved wrong many times in the past couple of years


A world champ is a world champ. Krjr was the world champ in 01, not to mention ex world champs like biaggi and creville in the field. What about just surviving a race let alone a whole season on a 500? Calling rossi's first motogp title 'somewhat easy' is pushing the boundaries

If vr's title in 2001 was gifted because the world champ was on a bad bike, then the same could be said for cs's 07 title. The world champ and the goat were both on bad bikes that year.........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 2 2010, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>this has certainly been proved wrong many times in the past couple of years


A world champ is a world champ. Krjr was the world champ in 01, not to mention ex world champs like biaggi and creville in the field. What about just surviving a race let alone a whole season on a 500? Calling rossi's first motogp title 'somewhat easy' is pushing the boundaries

If vr's title in 2001 was gifted because the world champ was on a bad bike, then the same could be said for cs's 07 title. The world champ and the goat were both on bad bikes that year.........
There seems to me to be a fundamental logical fallacy whenever you argue along these lines. If stoner is no good who has rossi beaten who is any good? You also took barry to task and claimed he had grossly insulted rossi by saying he has only won because of jb, which I agree is a quite outlandish contention, but are happy to say stoner only won because of his good bike/valentino's bad bike. My position has been consistent, no excuses for any of them in any season except perhaps if taken out by reckless errors by others, which means to re-state the obvious that all of rossi's championships were well deserved, but so were those of hayden and stoner, particularly given they beat someone as good as rossi.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Apr 2 2010, 09:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I know it's MCN, but if this article is true, I find it a bit shocking. Usually the baseless inflammatory remarks come from the Puig camp.
<snipp>
Not questioning Rossi's talent or trying to make excuses for Lorenzo, but the expectations placed upon Lorenzo must be reasonable!

True, his situation is different but still he was hired for the same reasons: To WIN.
In that regard he is in the same situation as Rossi(, and that's also the reason Rossi want him out).

What expectations do you think Lorenzo have to himself?

I found the article less than shocking, in fact it was one big yawn. Brivo did nothing but stating purely obvious things and what ever pressure he put on Lorenzo was already there.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Apr 2 2010, 10:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>True, his situation is different but still he was hired for the same reasons: To WIN.
In that regard he is in the same situation as Rossi(, and that's also the reason Rossi want him out).

What expectations do you think Lorenzo have to himself?

I found the article less than shocking, in fact it was one big yawn. Brivo did nothing but stating purely obvious things and what ever pressure he put on Lorenzo was already there.
I don't expect honda to say dovi is out if he doesn't win the championship, or ducati to require the world championship of hayden, but it could be argued that jorge has invited this by his contractual stipulations and press campaign last year where he implied he wasn't getting equal treatment, concerning which I won't venture an opinion. My interpretation of them signing him in the first place and the terms under which they re-signed him is that they weren't sure when rossi was retiring and may even have had transient doubts about him returning to the top after 2006 and 2007, matters now no longer of concern to them. Jorge's position may also have been eroded by the promise shown by spies.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 2 2010, 01:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>this has certainly been proved wrong many times in the past couple of years


A world champ is a world champ. Krjr was the world champ in 01, not to mention ex world champs like biaggi and creville in the field. What about just surviving a race let alone a whole season on a 500? Calling rossi's first motogp title 'somewhat easy' is pushing the boundaries

If vr's title in 2001 was gifted because the world champ was on a bad bike, then the same could be said for cs's 07 title. The world champ and the goat were both on bad bikes that year.........

I not trying to demean Rossi's accomplishments, I'm just pointing out the Rossi was put in the deep end in 2001 not 1986. Rossi's talents would have been no less amazing back then, but the stats might not have been quite as prodigious. The unrealistic expectation that a rider must win immediately was started in the Rossi-era.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 2 2010, 02:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You wouldn't think they would be saying this if they intended to keep lorenzo.
That's my thought.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 2 2010, 03:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>this has certainly been proved wrong many times in the past couple of years
At will may be the wrong wording, but Stoner has proven many times in the past three seasons that he is capable of beating Rossi on any given Sunday.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 2 2010, 04:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't expect honda to say dovi is out if he doesn't win the championship, or ducati to require the world championship of hayden, but it could be argued that jorge has invited this by his contractual stipulations and press campaign last year where he implied he wasn't getting equal treatment, concerning which I won't venture an opinion. My interpretation of them signing him in the first place and the terms under which they re-signed him is that they weren't sure when rossi was retiring and may even have had transient doubts about him returning to the top after 2006 and 2007, matters now no longer of concern to them. Jorge's position may also have been eroded by the promise shown by spies.
Exactly right. There were a lot of question marks at Yamaha in 2007 regarding riders. They took out a pretty good insurance policy in Lorenzo and happened to stumble on to Spies less than a year later. Couple that with Rossi's championships and suddenly all those question marks turned into positives and Yamaha are faced with the embarrassment of riches they have today. It's a good problem to have. But ultimately, I doubt they look anywhere else than the goose that has continually laid their golden eggs.