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Prosecutor considers action over Tomizawa death

Jumkie said:
What do u mean? R u suggesting foul play? R u sensationalizing and opperating under false assumption like uv been accusing people?
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No not foul play. You need to read that article.

It reminds me of just how much you have to accept when you enter a track to race, there are logistical things which put you at risk, many of which one tends to have to ignore. But as Lorenzo tried to put into words, if you race, you just can't help yourself its like an addiction.
 
BarryMachine said:
No not foul play. You need to read that article.

It reminds me of just how much you have to accept when you enter a track to race, there are logistical things which put you at risk, many of which one tends to have to ignore. But as Lorenzo tried to put into words, if you race, you just can't help yourself its like an addiction.
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A lot of people don't see the difference between track days and Racing! Racing is some serious business, its hard enough to manage and manevour around a race track let alone start thinking about how you are going to make the move on the guy in front of you. Me and Jumks were talking the other day at the Fontana about doing a novice race! My answer was no, i told him i am not going to put my ... on the line over some ...... club race in a ...... division (no offense to the people who race it). Ive Talked to a lot of these club racer who not only go out and put they're ... on the line, but spend every single penny they have getting to the race track and having a decent bike. most of them say they don't care what happens or what it takes but they're out there to win. Thats the attitude of a racer, as for me I don't think i will ever know what that is like because i am too comfortable in my skirt watching from the paddock. Now Imagine all the Joy Glory and Honor Shoya Felt when he went out that Night in Qatar and Brought home that first ever Moto 2 win, That is something only he will know , something All of us can only imagine.
 
If Shoya had Died when they say (Jorge seems to know when he allegedly died) is there any Judgement / Rule saying the Event / Racing has to be cancelled ? not just in Italy but anywhere if so did Dorna delay the news on Shoya's death just to get the Motogp race run

if so how bad is that
 
Pigeon said:
If Shoya had Died when they say (Jorge seems to know when he allegedly died) is there any Judgement / Rule saying the Event / Racing has to be cancelled ? not just in Italy but anywhere if so did Dorna delay the news on Shoya's death just to get the Motogp race run

if so how bad is that
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No Pig, again. You can't just declare someone dead then and there ( well no ... a doctor could ..... but with little effort put in to save him ..... ? I doubt you'd find any doctor who would have just given up then and there .. ) ...... so as much as most folk know he's gone, they really don't want it to be the case. And its a testament to what appears to be the case that, the medics did not just give up on him. I think you have to realise there really must be some "comraderee" in the industry, so I'd say thee would have been immense pressure from Dorna/paddock to revive him or exhaust all efforts at doing so.

Declaration of death is not when the person probably died, its when a doctor decides they are dead, and that they with their resources can do nothing more. This is dependent on equipment available, and sure a slack no hoper of a doctor could have just got him to the ambo and given up then and there, however, I guess they still thought they possibly could revive him. One thing is for sure, I bet at that moment in time, the last thing on their mind is the politics of death. In reality it seems that the moment Reddings wheel struck Shoya, he wasboth dead and, as it now is obvious, irrepairably damaged. But because the human body is not a machine, the fact that he was unable to be revived, is only obvious after having tried all they could to revive him.



Some doctors try longer, some may just give up early. I would suggest in Shoyas case, a prolonged effort was made. You may have a spin on why that is the case, but I bet you would not stand in front of a member of the MGP fraternity and say it to their face.
 
The California Kid said:
Thats the attitude of a racer, as for me I don't think i will ever know
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First off, thanks for reading the article and understanding it CK.



I had my first race in what used to be known here as a "black event", ie. it was not sanctioned by any governing body.

I was under age, never thought of my atitude. Maybe that initial "back event" eased me into it but racing carried on after that for many a year and I can't say I ever once gave a thought to my own death, nor even falling, or bike breakdown, or coming last, etc etc etc but I don't think its an attitude, more of a pretty obsessive goal. Like needing food.
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( I was going to say needing ... ....... but ...... oh .... .... racers are wacko!
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Its way above ...!! eg. if a chick was standing beside a corner totally naked attempting to get the attention of the riders ..... it would be the definition of futility
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) Checking on "Maslows Order of needs" ....... I'm pretty sure even food or water don't top the run up to a race
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Matter of fact for me it was not just racing, it may even just be being on a bike. Or maybe many "rides" just turn into races ?
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During a race your are like a cat after a piece of string ........ nothing else is on your mind than the task at hand.



Never done a track day ........ probably never will. Out here they are somewhat controlled .... ie. they telll you to stay in a line ( WTF is that all about !!?? ) they even tell you how to pass
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where's the fun in that
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Its hard to know when you are ready to race, you suggested you have enough trouble getting thebike around the track, I'd suggest that you aren't ready yet. Prettymuch everyone who races has a good "rapport" with a bike, ie. your bike skills are already pretty "up there". If not the first lap will sort you out
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Adrenaline ......... the worlds best drug
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BarryMachine said:
Some doctors try longer, some may just give up early. I would suggest in Shoyas case, a prolonged effort was made. You may have a spin on why that is the case, but I bet you would not stand in front of a member of the MGP fraternity and say it to their face.
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ho i would but who would listen to little me



as Toby said > Much has been said in the heat of the moment about the specifics of the accident



I take it ppl that know Toby Dorna motogp Kropotkin etc > riders journo's friends Officials Lawyers Familys etc HAVE SAID IT TO PPL



and like the link above and what Toby said its not the odd one or two asking Questions about Dorna motogp

its good to see Questions are being asked about Misano Dorna motogp and so it should
 
Pigeon said:
If Shoya had Died when they say (Jorge seems to know when he allegedly died) is there any Judgement / Rule saying the Event / Racing has to be cancelled ? not just in Italy but anywhere if so did Dorna delay the news on Shoya's death just to get the Motogp race run

if so how bad is that
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It was the same with Senna's crash mate. He was really dead the instant he hit the wall, but they kept him alive on a respirator just so he could be declared 'offically' dead outside of the racetrack and hence the meeting wouldnt have to have been cancelled.
 
The California Kid said:
A lot of people don't see the difference between track days and Racing! Racing is some serious business, its hard enough to manage and manevour around a race track let alone start thinking about how you are going to make the move on the guy in front of you. Me and Jumks were talking the other day at the Fontana about doing a novice race! My answer was no, i told him i am not going to put my ... on the line over some ...... club race in a ...... division (no offense to the people who race it). Ive Talked to a lot of these club racer who not only go out and put they're ... on the line, but spend every single penny they have getting to the race track and having a decent bike. most of them say they don't care what happens or what it takes but they're out there to win. Thats the attitude of a racer, as for me I don't think i will ever know what that is like because i am too comfortable in my skirt watching from the paddock. Now Imagine all the Joy Glory and Honor Shoya Felt when he went out that Night in Qatar and Brought home that first ever Moto 2 win, That is something only he will know , something All of us can only imagine.
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Excellent excellent post CK. I think it sums up why only my fellow racers, and friends on this forum understand what makes me tick...
 
#22 said:
It was the same with Senna's crash mate. He was really dead the instant he hit the wall, but they kept him alive on a respirator just so he could be declared 'offically' dead outside of the racetrack and hence the meeting wouldnt have to have been cancelled.
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Professor Sid Watkins treated Senna at trackside that day, & did nothing but try to save the life of his friend.
 
Pigeon said:
I take it ppl that know Toby Dorna motogp Kropotkin etc > riders journo's friends Officials Lawyers Familys etc HAVE SAID IT TO PPL
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I think you will find he means, the "fans". I haven't yet seen one insider or even journalist who has put forward some of the "rumours and inuendo as his/her own thoughts. Have you?
 
Goatboy said:
Professor Sid Watkins treated Senns at trackside that day, & did nothing but try to save the life of his friend.
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No No you have it wrong ( according to some on here ) he was just preserving him to die off the track ....
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( Satire )



Sounds even more idiotic now that I have typed it ........ how the hell do folk dream up such drivel.
 
Goatboy said:
Professor Sid Watkins treated Senns at trackside that day, & did nothing but try to save the life of his friend.
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Yeah sorry, I didn't mean it to sound like he didn't care. I know he did all he could and was not thinking about the judicial system at the time! No its just if you read his autobiography he says the minute he looked at Senna's eyes and saw the injuries he knew he could survive and that he was already 'clinically' dead. Hell they even said on the news that night that 'there was no hope of survival, but he was being kept alive because of Italian law'.



Anyway i'm not going to tarnish the momory of Senna, Tomizawa or Lenz by talking anymore on the matter.
 
Do the Moto2 riders wear the air suits. If not, would they have made any difference in that impact to his chest area
 
povol said:
Do the Moto2 riders wear the air suits. If not, would they have made any difference in that impact to his chest area
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Good point, logically they would but it didn't look like anyone in that crash had one.
 
povol said:
Do the Moto2 riders wear the air suits. If not, would they have made any difference in that impact to his chest area
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It might have help, but who knows. A report just came out that car fatalities are at an all time low. They tried to explain it, one of which was the use of airbags as one of the many contributing factors. Honestly, I'm not so sure even an airsuit would have save Tomizawa, but hey, its worth a looksy. That's perhaps the only good thing that comes from such tragic incidents, that we look for new ways of making the sport safe. They asked Nicky if he thought the astroturf they use at the track contributed to the crash. He said it gave people confidence to go over it, where if it were grass people would avoid it more. This might be something to consider. I'm not with those who suggested the turn was too fast, as all turns are as fast as the riders are willing to turn them. And frankly, a 40 mph turn can get you just as killed if you are by a freak accident hit by the bike behind.
 
danski46 said:
Good point, logically they would but it didn't look like anyone in that crash had one.
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Then that is something good that could come out of this.Better gear that is mandatory. When Dale Earnhardt was killed in the accident at Daytona, it was because of basilar skull fracture. His head went forward at such velocity that it basically blew or ripped the back of his skull out. There were drivers who used the HANS device, " tethers the helmet on both sides to a fixed object to keep the head from going forward" but was not mandatory. Earnhardt hated it and refused to use it, and it cost him his life. Now, they are mandatory. Soft walls on all oval tracks were also made mandatory, after racing for decades without them. Racing anything at high speeds will produce the unexpected, sometimes seeming to defy physics. Hopefully, this will be learning experience and it wont take the equivalent of an Earnhardt getting killed {Rossi} to set things in motion for better and safer gear
 
How many here saw the press conference with all the FIM/Dorna officials? It's quite interesting to see them answer as oppose to read the transcript. There's a moment where the pan to the people attending and I only counted Lorenzo there, I might be wrong, but I hope more riders were in attendance. At the end of the conference one person says they don't think its correct for the MotoGP race to have started and the Dorna official Mr. Alonso says, 'I don't think I can convince you, but we didn't know Tomizawa was passed away until 2:20, so we must go on.' His facial expression didn't convince me, but who knows. The last shot is of Lorenzo and his man friend getting up to leave.
 

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