Predictions: Where will Zarco go next?

Jumkie · Apr 25, 2018

And people say Pedro has bad luck (sorry Daniboy). I think he just got a contract extension and should send flowers to Zarco. (Actually Daniboy, I wouldn't mind Pedro at HRC considering his performance at last race, as long as it means Cal Cunthole is not a factory rider, 'considering his performance at last race'. Anybody but him.

)

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/n...mment_id=sp_6v0UE3U2_article-1029476_c_dFir5m

I think Zarco has made a big mistake if HRC were really offering him a deal and he refused it to stay out of Marc's shadow (or perhaps I should say, Azamoron/Puig's whipping boy). Granted I think Pol and Bradley are making the KTM look worse that it is, but it's still nowhere near where it needs to be, it can't even challenge Suzuki. Career over Zarco, welcome to Q1. You get one shot for your stock to be valuable enough and the stars aligning to get a shot at HRC seat, this window is rare, and now gone. Well, one less rider Rossi has to worry about. 1:3, 1:2, 1:1.

Despite the hype these ...... commentators try to sell everybody, the question every season for me is, who cannot win the championship? That always leaves you with a clearer understanding of just how lopsided and skewed is this sport. Motorhome meetings aside, the Carmelo Clause Sport Agency has paid dividends.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

JPSLotus · Apr 25, 2018

Jumkie said:
And people say Pedro has bad luck (sorry Daniboy). I think he just got a contract extension and should send flowers to Zarco. (Actually Daniboy, I wouldn't mind Pedro at HRC as long as it means Cunthole is not a factory rider. Anybody but him. )

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/n...mment_id=sp_6v0UE3U2_article-1029476_c_dFir5m

I think Zarco has made a big mistake if HRC were really offering him a deal and he refused it to stay out of Marc's shadow (or perhaps I should say, Azamoron/Puig's whipping boy). Granted I think Pol and Bradley are making the KTM look worse that it is, but it's still nowhere near where it needs to be, it can't even challenge Suzuki. Career over Zarco, welcome to Q1. You get one shot for your stock to be valuable enough and the stars aligning to get a shot at HRC seat, this window is rare, and now gone. Well, one less rider Rossi has to worry about. 1:3, 1:2, 1:1.

Despite the hype these ...... commentators try to sell everybody, the question every season for me is, who cannot win the championship? That always leaves you with a clearer understanding of just how lopsided and skewed is this sport. Motorhome meetings aside, the Carmelo Clause Sport Agency has paid dividends.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

I have to agree with this move being bad if he had a chance at the second HRC seat which seems to be accurate from all reports. The KTM is not a good bike, and while Zarco would do better than their current riders, it's not going to be enough. They may be throwing money at the 2019 bike, but against the might of HRC and Yamaha and Ducati for that matter, their mountain is Everest sized.

You almost have to wonder who is advising Zarco because going to KTM is the worst possible decision he could have made. He gave up the chance to win on a guaranteed front-running bike to go to a bike that has yet to show any real potential of challenging the currently established factories. If Lorenzo goes to Suzuki and gels with the GSX-RR, that's one more bike guaranteed to be in front of the KTM.

Just have to shake my head at this decision. He had one chance and blew it.

evo9 · Apr 25, 2018

Rossi is reportedly secretly convinced Honda will forge ahead and look to woo Dovizioso though.

Jumkie · Apr 25, 2018

JPSLotus said:
I have to agree with this move being bad if he had a chance at the second HRC seat which seems to be accurate from all reports. The KTM is not a good bike, and while Zarco would do better than their current riders, it's not going to be enough. They may be throwing money at the 2019 bike, but against the might of HRC and Yamaha and Ducati for that matter, their mountain is Everest sized.

You almost have to wonder who is advising Zarco because going to KTM is the worst possible decision he could have made. He gave up the chance to win on a guaranteed front-running bike to go to a bike that has yet to show any real potential of challenging the currently established factories. If Lorenzo goes to Suzuki and gels with the GSX-RR, that's one more bike guaranteed to be in front of the KTM.

Just have to shake my head at this decision. He had one chance and blew it.

Agree. Dumber move than Lorenzo going to Ducati. Granted being Dorna's teammate must be hell, but in Zarco's case he hasn't yet earned the right, grit your teeth son, you'd be on a factory RCV. Lorenzo already made his mark in GP so if it backfired he still has options. If zarco does .... on ktm which is likely, he’ll prob never get a competitive factory option again.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

povol · Apr 25, 2018

All this goes back to my contention that these riders are a .... more money motivated than a lot of you like to think. If you can set up yourself financially for life you have to listen. Zarco is no fool, he knows he isn’t beating Marquez and can make 3 times the money with a lot less pressure to produce top 2-3 results.

povol · Apr 25, 2018

synn said:
The KTM isn’t a .... bike and they have a budget close or equal to HRC.
The problem is, no matter how deep your pockets are or how good the people are, it takes time to develop a championship winner. The last few hundredths are exponentially hard to conquer.

Zarco is a fast rider who deserves a fast bike out of the box. Not 18 months from now.
Going from decent satellite rides where you outperform your peers to a factory where you need to deliver results AND be fast could be a career killer. Which is why I mentioned Bradl before.

Maybe Zarco will prove me wrong and I hope he does. But it’s a risk he could have avoided IMO.

Last few hundreths? Are you ....... kidding, they aren’t even into those last few tenths, they are still wayyyy over a second slower in race pace and ‘‘this is the third year. Before any one says it’s only been two years, they started ‘tis project a year before they went racing. KTM has hit a wall and Zarco is not going to be the difference. They will show improvement with Zarco but nowhere near enough to have them fighting for top 7-8 .

michaelm · Apr 25, 2018

povol said:
Last few hundreths? Are you ....... kidding, they aren’t even into those last few tenths, they are still wayyyy over a second slower in race pace and ‘‘this is the third year. Before any one says it’s only been two years, they started ‘tis project a year before they went racing. KTM has hit a wall and Zarco is not going to be the difference. They will show improvement with Zarco but nowhere near enough to have them fighting for top 7-8 .

That’s the thing. He is older than average for his stage in his career and has had no big payday nor significant premier class success as Rossi and Lorenzo had already had when they undertook their Ducati adventures, or Rossi when he moved to Yamaha for that matter.

I think there is some chance that KTM could come up with something with Red Bull throwing money at them, while there is next to none that he could beat MM as second banana on much less money for HRC. I suspect for reasons I won’t elaborate lest I display my intrinsic Rossi hating nature he isn’t keen on the current Yamaha factory team situation, or so some remarks of his suggest anyway.

synn · Apr 25, 2018

povol said:
Last few hundreths? Are you ....... kidding, they aren’t even into those last few tenths, they are still wayyyy over a second slower in race pace and ‘‘this is the third year. Before any one says it’s only been two years, they started ‘tis project a year before they went racing. KTM has hit a wall and Zarco is not going to be the difference. They will show improvement with Zarco but nowhere near enough to have them fighting for top 7-8 .

Thick skull gang strikes again.

You obviously don’t understand what I said and jumped at the chance of getting outraged. The point was not whether they are currently only hundredths away, but that to win, you need to make improvements in the hundredths, which takes exponentially more time and effort than seconds or tenths.

Now go read another ...... tabloid.

RCV600RR · Apr 25, 2018

Theo said:
Yes to the 1st sentence, no idea how it got chopped like that but it wasn't me.

Yes, proofreading is never the writer's responsibility, is it?

Theo said:
As for the rest you are agreeing, Red Bull have financial problems and they won't go away if they keep spending like now.

You're unbelievably obtuse. The question was not whether Red Bull has financial problems, or how those problems can be addressed. The question was whether Red Bull is currently providing extraordinary amounts of sponsorship money to Red Bull, allowing their budget to compete with HRC.

On an unrelated note, since you've raised it, do you really think spending is the sole criterion in addressing corporate finance issues? It depends what the spending is for (here's a hint: not all spending is bad. If you spend money in the right area, it can actually...create profit!), the cost of capital, etc.

I'll leave it to someone who can read a P&L and Balance Sheet to provide me with corporate finance analysis.

synn · Apr 25, 2018

Red Bull runs two F1 teams which are exponentially more expensive than a MotoGP team ever could be.

michaelm · Apr 25, 2018

synn said:
Thick skull gang strikes again.

You obviously don’t understand what I said and jumped at the chance of getting outraged. The point was not whether they are currently only hundredths away, but that to win, you need to make improvements in the hundredths, which takes exponentially more time and effort than seconds or tenths.

Now go read another ...... tabloid.

I would not arrange a meeting at Misano with Povol were I you.

RCV600RR · Apr 25, 2018

synn said:
Thick skull gang strikes again.

You obviously don’t understand what I said and jumped at the chance of getting outraged. The point was not whether they are currently only hundredths away, but that to win, you need to make improvements in the hundredths, which takes exponentially more time and effort than seconds or tenths.

Now go read another ...... tabloid.

I think we need to start a reading comprehension thread. Then, once a few of ours friends here have mastered basic reading, then we can start discussing MotoGP.

Gaz · Apr 25, 2018

synn said:
Red Bull runs two F1 teams which are exponentially more expensive than a MotoGP team ever could be.

Do they not also run a WRC team which one would suspect would also be quite costly, and that is before one looks at the naming rights type of deals (red bull air race etc) and goes without their domestic sponsorship commitments (Red Bull V8 in Oz for example).

They put a huge amount into motorsports and for me, I thank them for it (even if I reckon their products are putrid from a taste perspective) as without them, well who knows.

Not going looking but I wonder what their overall motorsports spend would be on dollars as there can be little doubt that they must get a serious return from that spend

RCV600RR · Apr 25, 2018

Jumkie said:
And people say Pedro has bad luck (sorry Daniboy). I think he just got a contract extension and should send flowers to Zarco. (Actually Daniboy, I wouldn't mind Pedro at HRC considering his performance at last race, as long as it means Cal Cunthole is not a factory rider, 'considering his performance at last race'. Anybody but him. )

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/n...mment_id=sp_6v0UE3U2_article-1029476_c_dFir5m

I think Zarco has made a big mistake if HRC were really offering him a deal and he refused it to stay out of Marc's shadow (or perhaps I should say, Azamoron/Puig's whipping boy). Granted I think Pol and Bradley are making the KTM look worse that it is, but it's still nowhere near where it needs to be, it can't even challenge Suzuki. Career over Zarco, welcome to Q1. You get one shot for your stock to be valuable enough and the stars aligning to get a shot at HRC seat, this window is rare, and now gone. Well, one less rider Rossi has to worry about. 1:3, 1:2, 1:1.

Despite the hype these ...... commentators try to sell everybody, the question every season for me is, who cannot win the championship? That always leaves you with a clearer understanding of just how lopsided and skewed is this sport. Motorhome meetings aside, the Carmelo Clause Sport Agency has paid dividends.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

Absolutely. Welcome to Q1.

Anyone who turns down an HRC Repsol seat needs their head checked.

RCV600RR · Apr 25, 2018

Gaz said:
Do they not also run a WRC team which one would suspect would also be quite costly, and that is before one looks at the naming rights type of deals (red bull air race etc) and goes without their domestic sponsorship commitments (Red Bull V8 in Oz for example).

They put a huge amount into motorsports and for me, I thank them for it (even if I reckon their products are putrid from a taste perspective) as without them, well who knows.

Not going looking but I wonder what their overall motorsports spend would be on dollars as there can be little doubt that they must get a serious return from that spend

Indeed. I always drink Red Bull on the (admittedly rare) occasions I drink an energy drink. They help our sport a lot.

synn · Apr 25, 2018

Gaz said:
Do they not also run a WRC team which one would suspect would also be quite costly, and that is before one looks at the naming rights type of deals (red bull air race etc) and goes without their domestic sponsorship commitments (Red Bull V8 in Oz for example).

They put a huge amount into motorsports and for me, I thank them for it (even if I reckon their products are putrid from a taste perspective) as without them, well who knows.

Not going looking but I wonder what their overall motorsports spend would be on dollars as there can be little doubt that they must get a serious return from that spend

The halftime show at the Austrian GP alone probably costs more than the yearly sponsorship check to KTM as well.

Red Bull has increased their brand image massively since they started their Motorsport/ extreme sport sponsorship program and like you said, I am pretty confident that they have some serious ROI from this.

Gaz · Apr 25, 2018

RCV600RR said:
Absolutely. Welcome to Q1.

Anyone who turns down an HRC Repsol seat needs their head checked.

Will go get the head checked later but to me, not necessarily as a lot will depend on why you are in the field, the stage of career and what your future (post racing) plans may well be together with your upbringing in terms of the need for money.

Any young guy/girl turning down a HRC offer is a fool where they do not already have an established career (ie. Jack Miller would be nuts to say no, Dovi not so and would be nuts to say yes - all IMO) and when one looks at the current HRC setup.

Sure it is a good bike, a championship winning bike but in the current HRC setup where would you be placed. Would you be a #1 or #2 type and I suspect that it would not be #1 or equal.

RCV600RR · Apr 25, 2018

Gaz said:
Will go get the head checked later but to me, not necessarily as a lot will depend on why you are in the field, the stage of career and what your future (post racing) plans may well be together with your upbringing in terms of the need for money.

Any young guy/girl turning down a HRC offer is a fool where they do not already have an established career (ie. Jack Miller would be nuts to say no, Dovi not so and would be nuts to say yes - all IMO) and when one looks at the current HRC setup.

Sure it is a good bike, a championship winning bike but in the current HRC setup where would you be placed. Would you be a #1 or #2 type and I suspect that it would not be #1 or equal.

I should've been clearer - I meant any rider who is currently uncontracted for 2019 turns down an HRC Repsol seat.

Agree re Dovi.

Gaz · Apr 25, 2018

RCV600RR said:
Indeed. I always drink Red Bull on the (admittedly rare) occasions I drink an energy drink. They help our sport a lot.

Tried their stuff once at Oran Park when their VW girls were giving out freebies (was during their very early Australian push) and will admit that it tasted crap and never been back.

Same with Monster as well so not just a Red Bull thing for me.

synn said:
The halftime show at the Austrian GP alone probably costs more than the yearly sponsorship check to KTM as well.

Red Bull has increased their brand image massively since they started their Motorsport/ extreme sport sponsorship program and like you said, I am pretty confident that they have some serious ROI from this.

No sponsor would be involved long-term unless their ROI was positive in their favour as for them, sponsorship is advertising and naming rights sponsorships, more so.

What is more, good luck to them as without involvement from the likes of Red Bull, where would we be with the anti-tobacco sponsorship regulations worldwide ?

In total honesty I am not one for the energy drink type but the sponsorship works as I had no awareness of the product or brand until Red Bull and Monster started their various sponsorships. One must come with a long term plan to spend big dollars knowing that their positive ROI will be some years away, and to do that takes some balls in today's financial world

33 Coupe · Apr 26, 2018

RCV600RR said:
Yes, proofreading is never the writer's responsibility, is it?

You're unbelievably obtuse. The question was not whether Red Bull has financial problems, or how those problems can be addressed. The question was whether Red Bull is currently providing extraordinary amounts of sponsorship money to Red Bull, allowing their budget to compete with HRC.

On an unrelated note, since you've raised it, do you really think spending is the sole criterion in addressing corporate finance issues? It depends what the spending is for (here's a hint: not all spending is bad. If you spend money in the right area, it can actually...create profit!), the cost of capital, etc.

I'll leave it to someone who can read a P&L and Balance Sheet to provide me with corporate finance analysis.

Whilst lecturing people on smugness and comprehension, your own sense of self importance may have resulted in your foot entering your mouth.

Predictions: Where will Zarco go next?

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