Positives ONLY regarding DMG's AMA

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 20 2009, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>See Povol above (i'm assuming he is right about waivers for Buell, not sure about Aprillia though). My guess its based on HP.




In Superbike, "factory" Yamaha & Suzuki only the rest only "supported", in Daytona Sportbike, factory Kawasaki only (as far as I know), "supported" Honda, Aprillia, Buell, Yamaha, Suzuki.



Slower. I don't think there is much of an expectation.



Still on Speed. The coverage basically exists in the form of showing races only on a two week delay. There is a new show called AMA Pro Racing Prime Time on Saturday night, it premiers this Saturday for the first time ever, so nobody knows.

So I would say the coverage SUCKS (even without seeing the show yes, simply because its two weeks late). Now keep in mind, they will only show Superbike, Daytona Sportbike races. It appears they will only show highlights of supersport (rookies class) and MotoGT 1&2 (........ class). Oh, and I'm assuming they will also show highlights of superpole.

Highlights are cool, but ask yourself, where would the sports people like be if all we got were highlights TWO weeks after the event?


Anyway Tom, this is waaay off topic, this was suppose to be a 'positives about DMG's AMA' and you just highjacked the thread you ........

Now that you've been updated, what positives do you see from your survey of the AMA website? (BTW, not sure if you're visiting the right website, its official name is AMA Pro Racing. (amaproracing.com)


Graves Motorsports is a Yamaha backed team in SportBike. Ummm.... does the Corona Extra Honda guys get some factory money for having Hodgson's?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayden Fan @ Mar 20 2009, 09:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Graves Motorsports is a Yamaha backed team in SportBike. Ummm.... does the Corona Extra Honda guys get some factory money for having Hodgson's?

Yes, "supported" but NOT factory team like Kawasaki.

Also, regarding TV coverage, consider this; today and tomorrow I will be going to the 2nd AMA round at AutoClub Speedway in Fontana Cali. I will be at the event and see live the 2nd superbike race of the season while NOT having seen the 1st race yet!!! Keep in mind, not even the hardcore racing fan like myself can torrent, bootleg, or scam a viewing of race one because it has NOTgone out in any form, its still in some cameraman's tape. The first time I will get a change to see round 1 will be Saturday night AFTER I get home from round 2! Yeah, ....... eh.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 20 2009, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Anyway Tom, this is waaay off topic, this was suppose to be a 'positives about DMG's AMA' and you just highjacked the thread you ........

Now that you've been updated, what positives do you see from your survey of the AMA website? (BTW, not sure if you're visiting the right website, its official name is AMA Pro Racing. (amaproracing.com)

Sorry about the off topic, i did suggest that Pm's could be more appropriate. Also, i was on the amaproracing.com, and read around a few other place too.

As far as positives go i want to see some of the races, but i'm still unsure if our coverage will continue in this country. However this reminds me of what happened to British touring cars after the 2000 season. The rules were drastically changed to try and boost entry numbers, including changing the race formats, making the cars slower, cheaper and generally kind of gay. Initially it seemed a rediculous idea, as the series seemed to stepping in a less proffessional direction and sacrificed much of its prestiege, but now BTCC is doing pretty well for itself and has decent entry lists and crowds, and gives good entertainment. I've actually lost touch with it a bit over the years as more of my time goes into following bike racing, but the point is to not write the new style AMA off just yet, it could well thrive. Questionmarks remain over two important things though, firstly the TV coverage, if it isn't well publicised then how will it expand? Secondly it's ability to produce riders who are world class, but we'll have to wait and see for that one, it'll take a few years to pan out before we see what (if any) effect it has on international competition.

All in all i'd say it's brave to have a whole new take on production racing, but it was America that came up with the superbike thing in the first place was it not? This could be the future and i think credit is due for not simply following norm.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 20 2009, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In Superbike, "factory" Yamaha & Suzuki only the rest only "supported", in Daytona Sportbike, factory Kawasaki only (as far as I know), "supported" Honda, Aprillia, Buell, Yamaha, Suzuki.
Correction, Aprillia is a factory sponsored team. LINK

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 20 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Also, regarding TV coverage, consider this; today and tomorrow I will be going to the 2nd AMA round at AutoClub Speedway in Fontana Cali. I will be at the event and see live the 2nd superbike race of the season while NOT having seen the 1st race yet!!! Keep in mind, not even the hardcore racing fan like myself can torrent, bootleg, or scam a viewing of race one because it has NOTgone out in any form, its still in some cameraman's tape. The first time I will get a change to see round 1 will be Saturday night AFTER I get home from round 2! Yeah, ....... eh.

And it is this fact alone that pisses me off more than anything and will ultimately get me to either not watch the races at all or skim thru them after I have DVR'd the race "show". What fan of moto racing is going to wait two weeks to find out results and avoid conversation about the race or forum talk? There is no way I am going to wait two weeks or even be able to avoid finding out the results, because I will either read about it on the forums or see it on a website. The #1 rule of sports watching is the thrill of the unknown, not knowing the finish, the "anything can happen in the end" situation. The two week delay pretty much kills this except for the hardcore who will wait.

In the end I would look at the whole thing as a positive if they would show the races at the very least the next day.

well since jumkie asked i'll chime in. my disease comment may be a bit premature but i'll give the dmg clown posse the season of 09 to prove my doubt unfounded. the numbers thing i don't like at all, stupid really, cause it's difficult to tell whos who plus i think it's just edmondson showin all the riders, mladin in paticular, whos boss by taking their identity away from the top riders. think how if rossi were to come to race in the ama & they not use the #46...... or hayden... no 69..... rediculous!
to be honest i still think that the way the classes are set up should work out & give us close racing, at least i would hope. the former supersport class as we knew it with all the manufactures involved & the bikes being dead stock are a good thing to a point. that buell is allowed to use that 1100 or what ever it's cc engine is and ducati have to use the 848 is total ......... how can this be? it's called favoritism plain & simple. they want that harley lump to be competetive so badly that they scued the rules in their favor. funny that harley can't keep it in one piece for an entire race.
the superbike class is and always will be the top class in the states and dmg need to realize this. it'll never be their new daytona whatever class. since the teams won't be able to trick their bikes out anymore the racing here should also be closer i hope. even tho i have not seen the daytona race yet, due to the excellent coverage, i read that the race finished alot closer than we've been use to for the last 4 or 5 seasons even tho mladin still won it. still it probably won't matter for the championship cause i still think none of these guiy's will be able to stop matt.
the biggest problem i have with this is the tv schedual! how the .... am i supposed to maintain intrest if i cannot see the races till a week later at 11:00pm on saturday night!!! gimme a ...... break! what is wrong with these friggin morons! don't they get it!!! at all!!!!! same day delayed or next day is the only acceptable altarnative to live... wow this is to much typing at once for me... i'm gonna have to stop now... i don't know how you long winded types do it! they have 1 season to convince me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ Mar 20 2009, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And it is this fact alone that pisses me off more than anything and will ultimately get me to either not watch the races at all or skim thru them after I have DVR'd the race "show". What fan of moto racing is going to wait two weeks to find out results and avoid conversation about the race or forum talk? There is no way I am going to wait two weeks or even be able to avoid finding out the results, because I will either read about it on the forums or see it on a website. The #1 rule of sports watching is the thrill of the unknown, not knowing the finish, the "anything can happen in the end" situation. The two week delay pretty much kills this except for the hardcore who will wait.

In the end I would look at the whole thing as a positive if they would show the races at the very least the next day.


You've gotta ask yourself "why?". DMG wouldn't have booted live coverage unless many different factors were at play. Plus, there are so many that could have caused delayed coverage, I'm not sure it's worthwhile to say that coverage has been delayed by Roger Edmondson's inconsiderate ego (though it's as plausible as any ideas I have).

1. The venue owner's have commented many times that most of them host AMA events because they are passionate about motorcycles. Most of them break even or lose money hosting AMA events. Edmondson might have delayed coverage to satisfy the venue owners.

2. Viewership could have been so low and the quality of live production could have been so poor that Edmondson and company thought it was best to delay coverage so Speed's TV cast could have time to rehearse.

3. It could be part of a deal with Speed. Maybe some bargaining went on behind the scenes and Speed pledged to drastically increase its AMA budget if there was a trade off, like the opening of midday Saturday time slots for NASCAR events at a discount.

When things are as bad as they were in the AMA, you've got to assume that executives are trading favors, bartering, and writing IOU's in an attempt to keep front-side costs down.

RE could be the cause of this disaster, but it's equally likely that the delayed coverage could be beyond his control.

The one positive I can think of is that at least someone is taking charge and doing something with AMA road racing. How much better would more of the same be?

Obviously most fans are pretty displeased with the obvious lack of parity in the Daytona class (Sorry Jumkie), but i have to ask how different it really is in principle to the system that World superbike has. The world championship regulations have always been designed attemtping to bring parity between bikes to attract more manufacturers. The small firms have had lower homologation numbers, different weight and capacity limits and different tuning regs. It hasn't been without its problems obviously and some people feel their has been bias to one factory or another, or one configuration or the other at various times, but all in all its worked pretty well. If AMA/DMG were to tweak the rules to make the Buell perform about as well as the 600's rather than being easily better, would that still be a problem for you guys? I think it'd actually be quite positive.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 25 2009, 12:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Obviously most fans are pretty displeased with the obvious lack of parity in the Daytona class (Sorry Jumkie), but i have to ask how different it really is in principle to the system that World superbike has. The world championship regulations have always been designed attemtping to bring parity between bikes to attract more manufacturers. The small firms have had lower homologation numbers, different weight and capacity limits and different tuning regs. It hasn't been without its problems obviously and some people feel their has been bias to one factory or another, or one configuration or the other at various times, but all in all its worked pretty well. If AMA/DMG were to tweak the rules to make the Buell perform about as well as the 600's rather than being easily better, would that still be a problem for you guys? I think it'd actually be quite positive.

Before the next race,they need to at least make the Buell run at the 385 pound limit that the other twins are required to run. Without at least that,this whole thing is going to blow up in their face when the uneducated race fan starts hearing that the whole series is a sham and the results are being manipulated in favor of certain brand. The Buell has a visible advantage right now,the 20 lbs would probably make it a wash. They would still have a huge hp to weight ratio,not to mention the torque,but it would effect the cornering considerably.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 25 2009, 09:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If AMA/DMG were to tweak the rules to make the Buell perform about as well as the 600's rather than being easily better, would that still be a problem for you guys? I think it'd actually be quite positive.

If they tried to equalize the bikes, it would certainly bring more credibility to the class. Thing is, the CEO of DMG has time and time again unilaterally dictated his own agenda. I'm sure the man is seeking advice and consultation from various sources but ultimately he decides his own way and its usually force feeding to the rest. He has so far left behind a record that shows a willingness NOT to compromise. You can trace this back to day 1. Sure he makes a few changes here and there, but so far they have been decidedly small and the opposing party has been forced to concede sometime outright acquiesce.

Povol, tonight I'm gonna post the video of Sunday's events. In the vid, you will see the restart of the Daytona race. I actually replay it so you can see the Buell gap the rest of the field from the middle of the straight to the end of the straight. It’s very obvious. Now if me, a lowly spectator can spot that out, I'm sure the other competitor and advisers he has sought are going to communicate this to him to. Wie'll see if there is a new addendum to the rules. However, being the cynic that I am, I suspect that the Buell advantage at other tracks with shorter straights will be subtle and masked; therefore no major rules changes should be expected. Perhaps that’s one small factor why they didn't mind not racing at Miller, since that monster straight would have exposed this unbalance in power.

Now to answer your question directly, no of course if the formula/rules were adjusted to make the bikes have more parity it would certainly be a step in the right direction. The issue is NOT having various brands in the class, I don't think anybody is complaining about that, it’s the decidedly unbalanced structure in the field of bikes. This is what has been pegged as indication that DMG have an agenda to put a Buell on top regardless of how it effects the other brands, most being Japanese.

I'm still gonna be optimistic and say I think we will see some rules changes to address this parity issue. However, it will be small changes with lots of propaganda to fool the casual fan that they have achieved parity. Just like the "Prime Time" show that they tout has a revolutionary concept and insult my intelligence with the super hyped press release that announced it.

Povol, I enjoyed myself at the races, its not all doom and gloom. They certainly need to make some adjustments and changes. Motorcycle racing fans for the most part see NASCAR as a contrived competition. It certainly does have some elements of it being contrived but it also has elements of pure competition and a decidedly commercial marketing approach. It’s this approach and the sense that its contrived is what many of us are having a problem accepting. But make no mistake, that's where AMA is now headed, the momentum is mounting. When its all said and done, I think more fans (quantity not quality) will be attracted to the sport and more household brands will be brought to you via advertising of the likes you see in Nascar.

Not all bad & not all good.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 25 2009, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If they tried to equalize the bikes, it would certainly bring more credibility to the class. Thing is, the CEO of DMG has time and time again unilaterally dictated his own agenda. I'm sure the man is seeking advice and consultation from various sources but ultimately he decides his own way and its usually force feeding to the rest. He has so far left behind a record that shows a willingness NOT to compromise. You can trace this back to day 1. Sure he makes a few changes here and there, but so far they have been decidedly small and the opposing party has been forced to concede sometime outright acquiesce.

Povol, tonight I'm gonna post the video of Sunday's events. In the vid, you will see the restart of the Daytona race. I actually replay it so you can see the Buell gap the rest of the field from the middle of the straight to the end of the straight. It’s very obvious. Now if me, a lowly spectator can spot that out, I'm sure the other competitor and advisers he has sought are going to communicate this to him to. Wie'll see if there is a new addendum to the rules. However, being the cynic that I am, I suspect that the Buell advantage at other tracks with shorter straights will be subtle and masked; therefore no major rules changes should be expected. Perhaps that’s one small factor why they didn't mind not racing at Miller, since that monster straight would have exposed this unbalance in power.

Now to answer your question directly, no of course if the formula/rules were adjusted to make the bikes have more parity it would certainly be a step in the right direction. The issue is NOT having various brands in the class, I don't think anybody is complaining about that, it’s the decidedly unbalanced structure in the field of bikes. This is what has been pegged as indication that DMG have an agenda to put a Buell on top regardless of how it effects the other brands, most being Japanese.

I'm still gonna be optimistic and say I think we will see some rules changes to address this parity issue. However, it will be small changes with lots of propaganda to fool the casual fan that they have achieved parity. Just like the "Prime Time" show that they tout has a revolutionary concept and insult my intelligence with the super hyped press release that announced it.

Povol, I enjoyed myself at the races, its not all doom and gloom. They certainly need to make some adjustments and changes. Motorcycle racing fans for the most part see NASCAR as a contrived competition. It certainly does have some elements of it being contrived but it also has elements of pure competition and a decidedly commercial marketing approach. It’s this approach and the sense that its contrived is what many of us are having a problem accepting. But make no mistake, that's where AMA is now headed, the momentum is mounting. When its all said and done, I think more fans (quantity not quality) will be attracted to the sport and more household brands will be brought to you via advertising of the likes you see in Nascar.

Not all bad & not all good.

I have seen the starts and you are right.In both races the Buell yanked the 600's by 10 bike lengths by the first corner and methodically pulled away.Dont forget that Atlanta has a super fast back straight that will play into the Buells hands and also has elevation changes that require up hill acceleration revealing the monster torque.With the weight ammendment,the Buells seem to have closed the gap on entry corner speed and are just way faster OUT of the corner and acceleration.That combo is going to make it hard on the 600 regardless of track configuration.My guess is the first step by DMG was taken after the 1st race with a little nudge and a wink and a keep it closer signal.In race 2,the Buell pulled out a huge lead again, only to slow and let the Kawasaki close in for a so called exciting finish.Was there a problem on the Buell? Did Hacking find the magic bullet in the last half of the race.A lap chart would tell the tale but from what i can gather,DMG doesnt offer that sort of analysis for their events. Did Eslick slow down to make it look good,or did Hacking find something. Hacking says they tried some different setups in race 2 and it took him a while to get used to them but that doesnt tell me if he sped up dramatically,or if Eslick slowed down dramatically.Anyone got lap charts?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 25 2009, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When its all said and done, I think more fans (quantity not quality) will be attracted to the sport and more household brands will be brought to you via advertising of the likes you see in Nascar.

Not all bad & not all good.
hence the favoratism to buell/harley davidson. just think about this approach for a minuet... all those harley riders seein a harley winning road racing events & possibly even the championship. all the purist like us go away to be replaced by alot more nascar mentality types most of which are that wannabe outlaw biker type.