Pedrosa the next Biaggi???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Aug 25 2007, 07:30 AM) [snapback]86792[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
will pedrosa win a wc? or will he be like a max biaggi, accomplished great things in the lower class, but when he moved up to 500cc a great rider Doohan was in his way, the rossi came along soon afterwards.

i got a feeling pedrosa hasnt really adapted well to the 990's and now the 800's that well.

and with stoner, rossi and soon lorenzo on the scen he may find it hard to ever win a WC, his best chance was prob in 2006, when the competition wasnt that great along with rossi's misfortunes.

i get the feeling he'll never win one B)


I tend to agree with you. As others have said, he is undeniably fast and great at dominating races from the lead but does not appear to like mixing it much. However, honda at some stage may be able to give him a bike of such quality that this won't matter.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Aug 25 2007, 08:43 AM) [snapback]86795[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I tend to agree with you. As others have said, he is undeniably fast and great at dominating races from the lead but does not appear to like mixing it much. However, honda at some stage may be able to give him a bike of such quality that this won't matter.



In my opinion, he's not made the initial impact that Max did on 500s, and like you say, he doesnt appear to want to mix it with the others.

I dont see Pedrosa as Championship material unless there is a big shake up in GP. Casey has blown everyone into the weeds while everyone was talkin Pedrosa up. Nicky is gettin the better of him regularly, and can fight in a pack. Most weekends Rossi has had the beating of him. I dont see that as potential championship stuff, these are the former, current and lets be honest future world champ, and I cant see ny of them losing sleep over the wee guy.

Pete

Pedrosa might not have made quite the impact that Max did (winning first time out), but then again not many riders do! And his rookie year (200+ points and 2 race wins) compares very favourably with Biaggi's and Rossi's overall.

The race he won this year in Germany seems to be the only way he can win at the moment. But in 2005 in 250s he had no problem dicing with the other guys. At Sachsenring Lorenzo put quite a dent in his exhaust, but he still came out on top of a four or five bike battle. But I argee, in the premier class his race-craft does seem to have regressed. And he gets killed in hard-braking zones every time.

If Stoner can go from the gravel to the top of the championship in one off-season, there's no reason why Pedrosa can't overcome his deficiencies for 2008. And since the general consensus seems to be that Michelins and Hondas are a pile of ..... in 2007, I'd say Pedrosa has as good a chance as anyone of winning a championship in the next few years.

BTW, Hayden finishing ahead of Pedrosa 3 times out of 12 isn't "beating him regularly" either.

I've been saying this for the last 3 years...all small class talent and no big class talent...
the hobbit will never win the motogp title...and he will become as frustrated and mean spirited as Biaggi...

never say never...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(frosty58 @ Aug 25 2007, 02:29 PM) [snapback]86822[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
never say never...



my thoughts exactly - not that im biassed or anything...

i think he's got a decent chance next year if honda (and to a certain degree michelin) sort themselves out, his main rival is Stoner undoubtably especially if rossi has a season like this one. lorenzo moving to yamaha in a one bike team isnt a good idea IMO, something my dad said got my brain ticking over and i think he's right.

rossi is in a separate team and therefore a rival so wont share information, as are the tech3 guys. a new team will not have a shedload of data to go on and its jorge's rookie year so how is he going to compare something completely new to him to the little amount of data he will have? big rival to pedrosa who now has a fair amount of experience in the class. i dont think so.

dani is dedicated and nothing but winning satisfies him, noone can deny he's talented and he's pretty close to becoming runner up in the championship this year as it is.

but hey, what do i know?

its a good question though, dani's performance isnt as good as last year be it because of the bike, tyres, whatever. i have faith in him though

I have no doubts Dani will win a MotoGP championship.

I don't know. I think Pete and Sun make good points about Pedrosa. I know the guy is fast, but he is squeamish on the brakes. And I don't see him hanging it out there to risk for a position. Does anybody recall Catalunya this year. He had the bike and pace to challenge both Casey and Rossi (who came from the mid pack). His bike regularly pulled past Casey's on the straight (and that's saying something) but he just couldn't manage to make a pass. Similarly, when Rossi and Stoner were dicing it up and slowing each other down, Pedrosa was right on their heals but he made no attempt to challenge for the lead. I realize his bike hasn't been up to par in most races, but this was one example where I think he had the better bike in a race and didn't mount an attack. If you have a change, go back and check out this race, he doesn’t seem to be champ material. But then again, perhaps given a little more confidence in the <strike>Kawasaki</strike> (errr) then maybe he can make a run for the championship if he challenges from the front not needing to mix it up. I'm no fan of Pedrosa, but I must admit, I remember him being a total ..... when it came to the rain, but this year he's become a better than average wet race rider, if this can change, then I guess him being a ..... on the brakes or mixing it up can change also. I hope it doesn't and I hope he ends up on a Kawasaki. But I doubt it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>Pedrosa might not have made quite the impact that Max did (winning first time out), but then again not many riders do! And his rookie year (200+ points and 2 race wins) compares very favourably with Biaggi's and Rossi's overall.

Agreed.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Teomolca @ Aug 25 2007, 04:09 PM) [snapback]86835[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I have no doubts Dani will win a MotoGP championship.

I have absolutely nothing against DP, but I just can't see this happening. He doesn't seem to have the whole package to put a Championship winning sequence together. There will always be that nick in the armour that when the tough get going, they will be gone! DP isn't tough enough.

He won't win it this year, his team mate will beat him next year, and by 2009 too much new talent will be around for him to win it at all. I can see him being consistently a top points scorer, but not a title challenger.

Max Biaggi is a different character altogether, next year in WSB could be his year!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Burky @ Aug 25 2007, 09:14 AM) [snapback]86843[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>


Max Biaggi is a different character altogether, next year in WSB could be his year!


What’s up Burks. Top of the morning to ya. (its morning here)

You think? Well for his sake, I hope so. I watch his interviews now and wonder what happened to that person who people think was not decent? The guy got torpedoed and all he could say about the perpetrator was, "well, I just had a bad race." Or when he challenged for the win but got beat on the last lap, and asked what happened, his reply, "I couldn't match his pace, he was faster." What? I would expect him to start a rant but all we got was graciousness. Damn. I very well hope he wins something in WSBK. I like Biaggi and realize the abandonment of his mom at an early age screwed with his character. For this I've always given him a pass. I always had a soft spot for Sete and Max. Yeah, they had their character flaws, but I also think they were vilified unjustly to a degree.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Aug 25 2007, 05:32 PM) [snapback]86848[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
What’s up Burks. Top of the morning to ya. (its morning here)

I always had a soft spot for Sete and Max. Yeah, they had their character flaws, but I also think they were vilified unjustly to a degree.

Hello chap, check out the sun. I'm looking at it too,....not that big a planet is it!

Well, they were vilified for one not so good reason, Valentino. I'm glad to see Max has taken his career to a new level, a different stage, and is gathering a whole load of popularity through his skill and grace.

He seems a whole lot happier away from the hype of Moto GP.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Teomolca @ Aug 26 2007, 01:09 AM) [snapback]86835[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I have no doubts Dani will win a MotoGP championship.

When the RC212V/Michelin get sorted i think he will.
Lets not forget he's only 21 yrs old

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(stop_killing_dead_things @ Aug 25 2007, 08:04 AM) [snapback]86834[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
my thoughts exactly - not that im biassed or anything...

i think he's got a decent chance next year if honda (and to a certain degree michelin) sort themselves out, his main rival is Stoner undoubtably especially if rossi has a season like this one. lorenzo moving to yamaha in a one bike team isnt a good idea IMO, something my dad said got my brain ticking over and i think he's right.

rossi is in a separate team and therefore a rival so wont share information, as are the tech3 guys. a new team will not have a shedload of data to go on and its jorge's rookie year so how is he going to compare something completely new to him to the little amount of data he will have? big rival to pedrosa who now has a fair amount of experience in the class. i dont think so.

dani is dedicated and nothing but winning satisfies him, noone can deny he's talented and he's pretty close to becoming runner up in the championship this year as it is.

but hey, what do i know?

its a good question though, dani's performance isnt as good as last year be it because of the bike, tyres, whatever. i have faith in him though


Good read. The part about Lorenzo is good too.I also thought the move to Yamaha was wierd b/c it's going to be 4 years of 1 manufacturer building 1 bike for 1 man. Seems like that would be a tough place to start.

Your point about Pedrosa is good too. He is an extremely talented rider. I don't much care for him, but I'm not dumb enough to claim he's talentless.......unless it was after Estoril last year (when it was true). However, there are some dark clouds on the horizon for him.

The 800s were supposed to hand him a world championship but conventional wisdom was way off. Honda has gone backwards not forwards relative to the other teams. His weight has not helped him carry significantly more speed through corners or given him a visible advantage under acceleration, but it has proved to hamper his braking abilities. Unfortunately for Pedrosa, bigger riders can brake even harder and deeper than before (with the softer compounds) and can open an advantage against the small Spaniard.

Ironically, it appears his other major weakness is the same thing that plagues Hayden. Pedrosa cannot win a battle. He has to win from the front when others don't have the pace. Like Hayden, he falls behind late in the game, when other riders start to push.

Luckily for him, better breaking only requires a protein diet, some weight sessions, and maybe some disco platform boots

Mr. Hayden found a way to win a world championship without winning the big battles (it still pisses people off to this day). I guess that's the genius of his backwoods upbringing. If Pedrosa can learn to eat humble pie like Hayden, he can probably sneak in a world championship or two.

I don't doubt the talent of DP but I always wondered
why so much hype was generated by him coming to
MotoGp. We have seen many 250 champions come to
MotoGp but non with as much fanfare as he has had.
(except Rossi) The question by so many was not if but
when and how many times he would win a championship.
Spain and Italy are unarguably the foremost spectators
of MotoGp. Before DP won the 250 class it had been 13
years since a Spainard had won. In those 13 years an Italian
won 9 of them. ( 10 if you count RSM, Isn't it situated in Italy?)
In the premiere class they have only won the title once in
57 years.
Waiting that long for someone to take back the title will
certainly build feelings of angst which creates maybe too
much hope when someone finally comes along or as we
say in boxing "The Great White Hope"
It's easy to see why Spain and the media have so much
overconfidence in his aspirations

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Burky @ Aug 25 2007, 05:12 PM) [snapback]86857[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Hello chap, check out the sun. I'm looking at it too,....not that big a planet is it!

Well, they were vilified for one not so good reason, Valentino. I'm glad to see Max has taken his career to a new level, a different stage, and is gathering a whole load of popularity through his skill and grace.

He seems a whole lot happier away from the hype of Moto GP.


As I recall biaggi had problems before rossi moved to the 500 class; he fell out with doohan with whom he was supposed to be friendly previously. I don't remember the details but like rossi, doohan was not noted for his charity to opponents.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Aug 26 2007, 02:27 PM) [snapback]86899[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
As I recall biaggi had problems before rossi moved to the 500 class; he fell out with doohan with whom he was supposed to be friendly previously. I don't remember the details but like rossi, doohan was not noted for his charity to opponents.


This is definitely true. Max had a head full of ideas about what he would achieve when he shifted to the 500's (on a Honda with Erv Kanemoto) & wasn't too worried who knew it at the time.

Then to top it off he generates even more expectation by winning his first race at Suzuka (on an already well sorted machine but with the advantage of it being the first race to use the lower octane "green" fuel that had been mandated for usage starting that year... & which had the effect of "de-tuning" the bikes a bit & making them that bit more rideable.)

I think that Mick took the same exception to this hype as he had to other similar situations in the past.

For instance, back when Alex & co. were able to constantly wait for Mick & JB to come up with the optimum settings for a race meeting, & have that information automatically shared with the other Honda riders. I think that I'd be annoyed as well...

I still love what Mick did to combat that though... to ditch the "big-bang" engine & swap back to a "screamer" type! By his own admission it wasn't really an advantage but it messed with the heads of the other riders when he seemed to be the only rider that could control the thing for a race duration.

Yes, Max has I think missed his MotoGP window & only time will tell if the same future awaits Dani. In <u>some</u> ways Dani reminds me of Troy Corser as well... when everything is working the way it should he's damn near unstoppable but if not then while he might challenge for a podium position, the win will be out of reach.

Hopefully Max CAN make it back to the champion's circle in WSBK though!

I think that it's a very elusive thing to make it to that very last level of greatness that makes the champion of the calibre of Mick, Vale & their contemporaries, so I will continue to watch each season unfold with great anticipation...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Burky @ Aug 25 2007, 05:14 PM) [snapback]86843[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
He doesn't seem to have the whole package to put a Championship winning sequence together.


I disagree based on the fact that Dani is a 3 time world champion and the most consistent front running rider so far this year. He knows what it takes.

Pedrobot ...will be a ???!!!...hes a very nice young bloke and hes just trying to...stick it up the michelins honda just like mr nickey hayden is!!!..."GET UR ACT TOGETHER HONDA!!!"....

i like the Repsol Team because Doohan started the legend thing with "Repsol"!!!...before Doohan there was the Rothmans Team!!!..and the Rothmans Team speakes for it's self!!!