Pedrosa not entirely happy with this years Honda

Gaz said:

Pedrosa says form hurt by Marquez's bike choice

Dani Pedrosa says the reason for his failure to match Marc Marquez this season is because of the extent to which Honda’s MotoGP bike has been designed around the needs of the two-time champion.

Pedrosa lies fourth in the points standings, having taken two podiums in Argentina and Catalunya, while Marquez leads the championship with two victories to his credit.

Honda took the radical step of redesigning its engine with counter-rotating crankshaft over the winter, a change Marquez said at the start of the year had been requested by both factory riders.

But Pedrosa claims he had no input in the decision, and is now paying the price of having to compete on a bike built around Marquez’s preferences.

The 30-year-old also said that he knew he would be in for a difficult time in 2016 as early as the Valencia test last November.

"In the end we didn't have many specs [of engines], but out of the ones we had I wouldn't have chosen the current one,” Pedrosa admitted.

"When we picked the bike I already knew things would be very hard. I already knew how the bike handled in November. But it is what it is.

"The choice of bike that we have was [Marquez's], I had nothing to do with it.

“For the moment, he's ahead and he deserves to be. He likes the bike, he adapts better to it, while I struggle more.

“That's obvious, you can see it in the results and in the way we ride."

Pedrosa said the poor performance of Honda’s satellite bikes this season in comparison to previous years was yet further evidence of how the RC213V has been designed around Marquez’s needs.

Cal Crutchlow’s sixth place at Catalunya has been the best result for a Honda rider besides Marquez and Pedrosa of the campaign so far.

“You have to think of the team, not only about yourself,” Pedrosa added.

“If you look at the rest of the Hondas, they are a lot further behind than two or three years ago, when you had [Stefan] Bradl or [Alvaro] Bautista finishing fourth or fifth.

“Now they are 10th and further [back]. So we have to try to get the other teams to work too."



Damn this Casey Stoner and his lack of development abilities, surely this must be his fault

Click to expand...

He's right - when Marquez arrived in 2013, Bautista was battling Rossi for fourth in many of the races. Bradl was also seriously fast.

Now, the satellite Hondas are terribly weak.

I wonder if he got a clause in his recent contract renewal that Honda must supply him with competitive machinery.

Daniboy said:

I wonder if he got a clause in his recent contract renewal that Honda must supply him with competitive machinery.

Click to expand...

No way would HRC or any manufacturer include 'competitive machinery' within a contract clause as the term itself is ambiguous and one of interpretation.

What is competitive machinery and competitive with whom?

One could say that the Yamaha/Michelin/Rossi combination at Catalunya was competitive but Yamaha/Michelin/Lorenzo was uncompetitive, thus if there was the clause in the contract, then Yamaha breached the contract, or alternately Yamaha factory versus Tech 3 and so forth.

Alternately, a manufacturer could say that we have provided you with competitive machinery as you are competing with riders for position 6 through 15 and thus they could claim to have met their end of the agreement.

I suspect what you mean is 'equal' equipment and provision of upgrades/enhancement at the same time as their fellow team riders as being a contract clause, but again, this is tough to enforce but easy to demand.

Not being an ....... about it, but in reality he has had a lot of years and produced some sensational and memorable rides, his story of coming back from the 2 broken ankles in 250 and his various injuries in MotoGP place him undeniably as a tough mother. He no doubt (IMO) knows that he is number 2 and so he will always play second fiddle to (in this case) Marquez as he has had his opportunity but fate has seemingly always dealt him a negative blow.

Gaz said:

Not being an ....... about it, but in reality he has had a lot of years and produced some sensational and memorable riders, his story of coming back from the 2 broken ankles in 250 and his various injuries in MotoGP place him undeniably as a tough mother. He no doubt (IMO) knows that he is number 2 and so he will always play second fiddle to (in this case) Marquez as he has had his opportunity but fate has seemingly always dealt him a negative blow.

Click to expand...

His team and teammate have also scuppered his ambitions a few times too, the Sachsenring pitboard lie, the Misano tyre warmer fiasco and Marquez knocking his rear wheel sensor off, at times it makes you think 'if he didn't have bad luck he'd have no luck'

Daniboy said:

His team and teammate have also scuppered his ambitions a few times too, the Sachsenring pitboard lie, the Misano tyre warmer fiasco and Marquez knocking his rear wheel sensor off, at times it makes you think 'if he didn't have bad luck he'd have no luck'

Click to expand...

I agree he is peerless on his day, and also that he has had considerable bad luck, but he has also had great opportunities, having been pretty much the undisputed number 1 Honda guy for the first 5 years of his premier class career, more chances than most are afforded.

I think he is basically unsuited to being an HRC rider, the bikes have always been a little too intrinsically raw for him, and he has been able to only get them sufficiently dialled in to meet his exacting standards 2 or 3 times a year. I have always thought he would do well on a Yamaha, and thought that he might have a brief chance of a title with Yamaha over the next 2 years particularly if VR finally did start to decline. Not happening now obviously.

Daniboy said:

Don't agree, Sepang 2015 he was untouchable by any rider on any bike.

Click to expand...

Right, and that is the Dani enigma. He has been fast enough to beat anyone on any day. He beat Stoner on the same equipment, too. But, if I am going to WIN a individual championship for HRC, I am either forcing Stoner to ride again, or I am backing the Marc.

Dani is the best 2nd guy, ev-ar. He gives Honda a ton of points every year, and usually keeps the Repsol logo in sight. His record is amazing for someone without a ship.

Best points finish for second place ever although that may be up for discussion compared to seasons past with less GP's ? I think his strongest chance of winning the championship has passed by but, and a big but at that, he could still win one if the stars aligned ala 2006 .

He could still win one ----> on the bike he was supposed to ride all his career: M1, hypothetically. But now we're talking fantasy - and it would still be almost impossible.

At Honda, where he'll probably retire, it is indeed, sure as hell, 110% impossible he'll ever win anything more than 1 race a year from now on.

Daniboy said:

I wonder if he got a clause in his recent contract renewal that Honda must supply him with competitive machinery.

Click to expand...

He's always had a clause. Santa Clause has given him competitive machinary for 10 years now.

JohnnyKnockdown said:

He's always had a clause. Santa Clause has given him competitive machinary for 10 years now.

Click to expand...

Probably because he's one of the elves, Santa is always good for his elves lol

Honda has a history of stacking the deck against one teammate. It's like they start them off equal, then If one looks more likely to win, It seems things happen to the other guy. Definitely happened in F1 (Prost-Senna) by and I have no doubt in 500/MotoGP. Of course I have no smoking gun proof. Seems counter intuitive though, since there is always a manufacturers title at stake. But of course everybody knows that the driver/rider title is the one that gets remembered.

Bern1 said:

Honda has a history of stacking the deck against one teammate. It's like they start them off equal, then If one looks more likely to win, It seems things happen to the other guy. Definitely happened in F1 (Prost-Senna) by and I have no doubt in 500/MotoGP. Of course I have no smoking gun proof. Seems counter intuitive though, since there is always a manufacturers title at stake. But of course everybody knows that the driver/rider title is the one that gets remembered.

Click to expand...

If that does occur, which was possibly the case in 2006 if no other year that I can recall, then Dani was that favoured rider for the first 5 years of his premier class career. Didn't seem to occur in 2011 or 2012 either, not that it should, and while it would seem they are definitely going with MM this season, that might have something to do with MM just being plain better than him over the course of a premier class season, with the titles to prove this.

I wouldn't mind Dani winning a title either, but he has never shown the ability to put together a complete premier class season, despite now being engaged in his 11th attempt on a full factory HRC bike, and if being insufficiently robust has been one of his problems that is indeed unfortunate for him, but also the way it is.

michaelm said:

If that does occur, which was possibly the case in 2006 if no other year that I can recall, then Dani was that favoured rider for the first 5 years of his premier class career. Didn't seem to occur in 2011 or 2012 either, not that it should, and while it would seem they are definitely going with MM this season, that might have something to do with MM just being plain better than him over the course of a premier class season, with the titles to prove this.

I wouldn't mind Dani winning a title either, but he has never shown the ability to put together a complete premier class season, despite now being engaged in his 11th attempt on a full factory HRC bike, and if being insufficiently robust has been one of his problems that is indeed unfortunate for him, but also the way it is.

Click to expand...

His points total at the end of 2012 would have won him a championship on many other years, he only missed out by 18 points and if his tyre warmer hadn't welded itself to the brake disc at Misano due in no small part to Karel Abraham stalling and causing the race to be restarted, if they had pushed him off the grid which should have happened, Pedrosa was on pole and looking good for a win or certain podium, Jorge won that race and took 25 clear points, and that piece of bad luck almost certainly cost him that years championship imo . No he certainly has done enough over a season in my estimation.

Daniboy said:

His points total at the end of 2012 would have won him a championship on many other years, he only missed out by 18 points and if his tyre warmer hadn't welded itself to the brake disc at Misano due in no small part to Karel Abraham stalling and causing the race to be restarted, if they had pushed him off the grid which should have happened, Pedrosa was on pole and looking good for a win or certain podium, Jorge won that race and took 25 clear points, and that piece of bad luck almost certainly cost him that years championship imo . No he certainly has done enough over a season in my estimation.

Click to expand...

If ifs and buts were crackers and nuts every day would be Christmas.

michaelm said:

If ifs and buts were crackers and nuts every day would be Christmas.

Click to expand...

It still proves he nearly got there in one of the highest points scoring seasons ever, not as much of a failure as some like to imagine.

Daniboy said:

It still proves he nearly got there in one of the highest points scoring seasons ever, not as much of a failure as some like to imagine.

Click to expand...

As I said, I like Dani, and would like to see him win a title. Other than that particularly egregious error in his rookie year when barely out of his teens and probably influenced by the very manipulative manager who later attempted to murder him at Sachsenring he has ridden very fairly and has definitely not been at all favoured by fortune.

2012 is not a great year to play "what ifs" however imo. With Ben Spies and Casey Stoner both out of contention (not his problem of course, rather his opportunity, but likely a contributor to his eventual points tally), he won a succession of races and managed to close the gap on Jorge Lorenzo, who had a quite large lead, late season. Circumstances alter cases however, and how Jorge would have ridden if he needed to win rather than having a substantial lead we will never know, although I am fairly certain he would not have crashed out of that last wet race at Valencia when he became frustrated by being stuck behind a back marker who was a lap down if he had not already clinched the championship after Dani crashed out of the preceding PI race. If you want to call a 30 point net change at Misano I can do the same for the Valencia race.

Daniboy said:

It still proves he nearly got there in one of the highest points scoring seasons ever, not as much of a failure as some like to imagine.

Click to expand...

You're mounting an argument on what you assume "others" like to imagine.

Maybe there's a Latin word for that as well.

Or maybe a Spanish one? Quixotic?

My read on the consensus here is that there is broad agreement with you that DP is a good guy. He is just hampered by his size: constrained by the laws of physics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Daniboy said:

It still proves he nearly got there in one of the highest points scoring seasons ever, not as much of a failure as some like to imagine.

Click to expand...

No, all it proves is he couldn't get to the top even when he had the benefit of his teammate not running in 3 races. Close doesn't matter. He had his best chance and couldn't do anything. Even when he got a massive internal advantage at HRC, he still couldn't do ..... The midget is fast on his day, but his day doesn't come often.

Close does matter because it is the perfect riposte to the argument that Dani has never had a consistent season or challenged for the championship which he plainly did in 2012.

Daniboy said:

Close does matter because it is the perfect riposte to the argument that Dani has never had a consistent season or challenged for the championship which he plainly did in 2012.

Click to expand...

You chose not to reply to my post on the matter however. Selective arguments as always, ignoring what doesn't suit you.