Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
Leading
& If you read it properly it just speculates that Yamaha & Ducati are in agreement.
Sure, as I said I find it hard to believe that ducati would be against a spec ecu given their relative lack of resources and rumoured current disadvantage electronics-wise, unless the new audi management wish, like honda, to pursue electronics r and d in their gp racing programme. However, if you are going to believe nakomoto made such a statement to oxley at brno then oxley does also say in the article "no doubt the other factories are on HRC's side".
I have not seen any statement by nakomoto specific to brno reported elsewhere, but he has certainly made similar statements or "sabre rattled/samurai sword rattled" as oxley puts it about the spec ecu before.
I am right behind Honda on this. This is the digital age. Electronics are playing a bigger and bigger role in everything mechanical these days. MotoGP is ....... I can't even be bothered to watch FP or QP anymore. Blaming Honda for the state of MotoGP is just a cop out. There are more manufacturers than Honda and there is also the FIM and Dorna. What the .... have the rest of them been doing whilst the big bad Honda ...... MotoGP.
I would be happy for MotoGP to die and leave Ezpeleta with nothing but his .... in his hand and a bunch of angry TV broadcasters who paid for a product that he can no longer supply.
The a few years down the track a new, truly prototype series can start up again without the current political players at the helm. WSBK will thrive in the mean time which will probably do more for the manufacturers than MotoGP is currently doing.
I would be happy for MotoGP to die and leave Ezpeleta with nothing but his .... in his hand and a bunch of angry TV broadcasters who paid for a product that he can no longer supply.
The a few years down the track a new, truly prototype series can start up again without the current political players at the helm. WSBK will thrive in the mean time which will probably do more for the manufacturers than MotoGP is currently doing.
Joined Apr 2011
636 Posts | 26+
Gold Coast
Here's a thought too lads, maybe u too MA, id like to hear your take on this. Say we do stay with a 100% prototype series, how much further can humans be pushed do you think, on these bikes? As the electronics improve and tyres (power probably isn't an issue nowadays), how much more do you think they can reduce lap times by?
Are we coming to a performance apex? If so, if we had the bikes specced to what they are at now, would that be such an issue?
Are we coming to a performance apex? If so, if we had the bikes specced to what they are at now, would that be such an issue?
The answer lies in the answer given to the person who asked the same question 10 years ago and the other person who asked it 10 years before that. What we are seeing is the performance boundary becoming closer because the rules have narrowed so significantly that it is no longer prototype.
All the constraints need to disappear so that engineers can think outside the box and come up with something that resets the boundary.
Imagine if 20 years ago a rule was brought in that computer screens must be 16" x 16" x 16" and must weight 10kg. Would we today even conceive of an iPad?
A true prototype series shouldn't even stipulate a internal combustion engine in my opinion. Imagine someone turning up with a nuclear powered bike? Extreme I know but you get my point. What about a bike that is fully enclosed rider and all in a fairing? What would the drag co-efficient be of that in comparison to what we have now?
Then just let WSBK and all the other series race spec bikes.
All the constraints need to disappear so that engineers can think outside the box and come up with something that resets the boundary.
Imagine if 20 years ago a rule was brought in that computer screens must be 16" x 16" x 16" and must weight 10kg. Would we today even conceive of an iPad?
A true prototype series shouldn't even stipulate a internal combustion engine in my opinion. Imagine someone turning up with a nuclear powered bike? Extreme I know but you get my point. What about a bike that is fully enclosed rider and all in a fairing? What would the drag co-efficient be of that in comparison to what we have now?
Then just let WSBK and all the other series race spec bikes.
Joined Apr 2011
636 Posts | 26+
Gold Coast
I don't often agree with what you post mental, but that was a quality reply. I think that sometimes we are blinded by what we have, and pigeon hole ourselves into accepting what is the norm, ie I internal combustion engine in a ali frame. I never even considered some of those points you made, nice one!
I think it will be a lot like running - we will change our expectation from seconds to tenths to hundredths to thousandths. Record will always be broken until they change the format and then all existing records will be expunged.
What do you mean by "energy"? are you talking calorific value or ron / mon rating?
Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
Leading
So why not force the issue & try to break HRC in the process? Call their bluff ala Arab & Barry.
Joined Feb 2008
2K Posts | 0+
home
Couldn't say, I don't have the technical knowledge to say wheter it should by measured in joules, calories (I believe those can be converted to joules) or whatever. I wasn't thinking of the octane rating. Given present technology, simply lowering the number of liters of fuel in the tank would be enough but who knows what future developments would bring.
I think raising the fuel limit would be the direction to go especially for the poorer teams. Funny thing with fuel is, the higher the octane the lower the calorific value. This is because of the additives used to make the fuel more detonation resistant. I would love to see prototyping head in the low octane fuel high performance direction as that's something we would all benefit from on the road. It's just way too expensive for that to happen in our current climate.
Joined Oct 2006
3K Posts | 34+
Tar Heel State
Rog, ethanol has been discussed a lot in racing. I can't be bothered to look honestly, but I believe our NASBORING series is using ethanol or will be going to ethanol type fuel in the future.
Being a Subie owner, I know you've looked at the benefits of Ethanol with a proper tune.
Being a Subie owner, I know you've looked at the benefits of Ethanol with a proper tune.
Would the thought of MotoGP becoming a workshop sport really be that bad? Privateer teams with good sponsorship and backing and a relaxed rule set to allow genius engineers come up with truly innovative solutions. That in my mind is the true spirit of MotoGP.
Let the factories all conduct their technical experiments in the far more relevant WSBK. They keep harking on about r & d filtering back to road bikes but the environment to do so is far more conditioned for this in WSBK in my humble opinion.
I know its a very leftfield thought but I don't think it would be so ridiculous.
Let the factories all conduct their technical experiments in the far more relevant WSBK. They keep harking on about r & d filtering back to road bikes but the environment to do so is far more conditioned for this in WSBK in my humble opinion.
I know its a very leftfield thought but I don't think it would be so ridiculous.
Again, why are honda bad and yamaha good? Yamaha have been a fairly equal partner in the cosy duopoly as far as I can see, if a little more subtle about things, and they and honda currently have 15 riders' titles each; both seem happy to compete against the other but not necessarily particularly keen to compete against others. Honda have at least historically been prepared to provide more bikes.
I think you have a point. Doubtless there were other motives, and some abstruse engineering philosophy of honda's seemed to be involved, but I think the 800 formula, poor in execution as it may have been, partly was a genuine response to the problem of the current tracks not being able to cope with any more speed in terms of run-off areas etc,and genuine concern after kato's death, as lex our resident philosopher extensively argued. It would also seem likely with totally unlimited development that the bikes would eventually exceed human physical capacities as you suggest.
This is what would happen if MotoGP died and a few years later a true prototype series started up. Race teams with innovative ideas trying to out do the next guy. Leave the production based series for the manufacturers.
The problem remains that the tracks and the riders probably can't sustain unlimited increase in speed as has been said. I thought jerry burgess's argument from an engineering philosophy viewpoint that true protoype racing but with a 600cc limit was logically reasonable, but as david emmett/kropotkin said this would probably be even more expensive than recent formulae.
