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Nakamoto reads powerslide

Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
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Shuhei Nakamoto, vice president of Honda Racing Corporation and formerly a senior member of the company's ill-fated F1 project, claims Honda is always fair with its MotoGP rivals - unlike Ferrari in F1.



Honda is the dominant MotoGP participant in terms of resources, contribution and history. Yamaha and Ducati are the other current premier-class manufacturers.



During a joint interview alongside HRC president Tetsuo Suzuki for LCR Honda's Inspire magazine, Nakamoto pointed out the effort Honda makes to support the sport - especially in the Moto2 and Moto3 classes.



“Personally, I love both MotoGP and F1 in the same quantities. I am very proud to work at HRC because our company is able to support competitions and offer a great and lasting contribution to the future of the motorcycle racing world.



“Establishing the Moto3 class and providing engines for the Moto2 class are good examples for how much we can do.



“At F1, Ferrari has absolute authority. To be honest, we suffered a lot in that period. In MotoGP, in fact, Honda is in a similarly strong position but we like to be fair with our rivals. If we were to use our force, the MotoGP race would lose its appeal.”



Nakamoto was then asked, 'So Honda doesn't behave like Ferrari in the MotoGP, trying to make a biased racing environment?'



“That's correct,” he replied. “However so many people believe that Honda do whatever Honda wants! In fact they bash us about that frequently!



“Think about it like this - Honda provides the Moto2 engines without making a profit. It set up the Moto3 class to hold back the soaring spending of the GP125 class budget. And in the MotoGP class we are trying to keep fair regulations.”



Nakamoto has been a staunch defender of the need for MotoGP to retain is level of technical sophistication, in the face of cost-cutting proposals, resulting in a compromise being reached for 2014 whereby manufacturers will retain their own software within the new control ECU.



“I believe motorcycle fans love to follow the racing to see the advances in motorcycle technology, not just to witness the battles between riders on the track,” said Nakamoto.



Honda's Dani Pedrosa finished second in the 2012 riders' championship to Yamaha's Jorge Lorenzo.



Perhaps one of the most surprising comments from Tetsuo Suzuki - a former classmate of Nakamoto - was when asked for his hero as a racer.



Suzuki selected two former Honda MotoGP stars, Valentino Rossi and the late Daijiro Kato. Rossi won the first three of his seven MotoGP titles with Honda, then left for Yamaha at the end of 2003.



“For me Valentino Rossi and Daijiro Kato are the leading lights. I have to mention their racing attitude - it's exemplary. Most of the riders say "I can't ride very fast because of this and that". But Daijiro and Valentino both say "Please solve this issue and I'll do the rest".”



http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/186357/1/honda_is_fair_with_its_rivals_unlike_ferrari.html
 
I dont think there is any doubt that Krop gets a lot of his talking points for his articles here, im sure there are others in the GP world who are aware of PS existence.





“I believe motorcycle fans love to follow the racing to see the advances in motorcycle technology, not just to witness the battles between riders on the track,” said Nakamoto.



How right you are sir.
 
“I believe motorcycle fans love to follow the racing to see the advances in motorcycle technology, not just to witness the battles between riders on the track,” said Nakamoto.



Of course he is correct, but he is also too dumb (like many others) to understand that technology and entertainment are not mutually exclusive. He forces failure upon himself and everyone around him. No one should be surprised that 'real racing' has died a slow painful death. The people in charge of 'real racing' and many fans of real racing are unenlightened--the dodo birds of the human race.



The market is telling HRC that they must combine technological initiatives with entertainment. They refuse. They are being hunted to extinction by fans, private equity, promoters, communications companies, and media conglomerates b/c the world knows that racing can succeed commercially without technology. Entertainers can kill the technologists and get away with it.



Nakamoto is put on the stand and forced to explain himself: [paraphrase] We are not as evil as Ferrari [/paraphrase] Start the coronation ceremony!! We've completely misjudged HRC and the MSMA bureaucrats.



Imagine if Nakamoto refused to acknowledge that Honda lost the riders' title this season. He would lose his job immediately b/c denying failure makes people comfortable in failure. Nakamoto denies failure regarding the technical regulations and HRC's management of the sport. He claims he should never be required to think about entertainment (competition) or sustainability (profit). Some people are ready to give him a Nobel prize.



If the MSMA want failure, hire me to run HRC. I can fail at a much lower price point. I can render valueless all of their accomplishments for a fraction of what they are paying Nakamoto!
 
I dont think there is any doubt that Krop gets a lot of his talking points for his articles here, im sure there are others in the GP world who are aware of PS existence.

I sometimes come here to take the temperature. If it's too feverish - which it is frighteningly often - I leave well alone.
 
I sometimes come here to take the temperature. If it's too feverish - which it is frighteningly often - I leave well alone.



And on some occasions you can,t resist poking your stick at the hornets nest................



(not that I mind)
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In Honda's defense, Nakamoto's interview is not supercilious rhetoric. HRC are more fair-handed than Ferrari who always sell out to the commercial rights company for preferential treatment. Furthermore, Honda have always lived up to their original agreement with Dorna (two factory bikes, two satellite bikes). Honda also agreed to move back to 1000cc, and they compromised on the spec ECU and claiming-rules.



What have the new regulations accomplished? Compromise. That's it. The technology is not more interesting. The entertainment is not appreciably better. HRC have made sacrifices for no gain, but since they have made sacrifices, they expect to get something in return. Nakamoto expects the fans to cut Honda some slack. Nothing has been accomplished so no slack is given.
 
Of course he is correct, but he is also too dumb (like many others) to understand that technology and entertainment are not mutually exclusive. He forces failure upon himself and everyone around him. No one should be surprised that 'real racing' has died a slow painful death. The people in charge of 'real racing' and many fans of real racing are unenlightened--the dodo birds of the human race.



The amusement value of your attempts at controversy is enhanced by the fact that your formula for 'fixing' the series revolved around penalising success.

 
What have the new regulations accomplished? Compromise. That's it. The technology is not more interesting.



Says the guy who wrote, with his usual amusing attempts at condescension, that AMA Superbikes are saddled with Aluminum engine internals while World Superbikes use Titanium. LOL.
 
The amusement value of your attempts at controversy is enhanced by the fact that your formula for 'fixing' the series revolved around penalising success.



MV Agusta won 18 of 19 premier class championships between '56 and '74. Depending upon who you ask, the rules put in place to save MV Agusta actually ended up sealing the company's fate as the premier class switched to two strokes circa 1975. MV Agusta also thought that winning = success. Where are they now?



Perhaps your definition of 'success' should be broadened a bit.



I never suggested altering the rules based upon budgets, revenues, or sales. Nor did I insist on budget caps or salary caps as used by other sports institutions. I did suggest that the technical regulations should be liberalized so the engineers have more freedom, and I did suggest that winning teams should be forced into more challenging scenarios to maintain public interest, which gives value to the MSMA's engineering efforts and competitive accomplishments. I don't see how either of those characteristics could be construed as punishment, particularly after the MSMA just reduced fuel-capacity b/c they were bored.



As far as I can see, the fuel index is a sophisticated version of the clumsy two-tiered system they have now.
 
Says the guy who wrote, with his usual amusing attempts at condescension, that AMA Superbikes are saddled with Aluminum engine internals while World Superbikes use Titanium. LOL.



First, Superbike racing is production racing, and all of the Superbikes on the market (spare the exotic R-spec Ducatis) are equipped with aluminum pistons and rods. I prefer titanium internals, but the Japanese made it clear that they no longer want to build homologation specials in the 1000cc era. They have never made titanium parts available for sale to private teams during the 1000cc era either, and only a few lucky teams have gotten the factory-spec equipment.



With the recent advances in titanium manufacturing, perhaps the Japanese will change their minds, but AMA (and BSB) have shown that the stock internals can actually handle competition.
 
First, Superbike racing is production racing, and all of the Superbikes on the market (spare the exotic R-spec Ducatis) are equipped with aluminum pistons and rods. I prefer titanium internals, but the Japanese made it clear that they no longer want to build homologation specials in the 1000cc era. They have never made titanium parts available for sale to private teams during the 1000cc era either, and only a few lucky teams have gotten the factory-spec equipment.



With the recent advances in

titanium manufacturing, perhaps the Japanese will change their minds, but AMA (and BSB) have shown that the stock internals can actually handle competition.



Lex,

Put down The Road to Serfdom and read some technical literature.

Aluminium pistons. Wow. Go tell W.O. about this exotica.

Aluminium Rods? Umm. No.

And Honda can't sell Titanium conrods for the CBR1000. The road bike has steel rods, so the race bike does, too. Rules, you see.

Perhaps you're thinking of the top end. But I daren't go there for fear of further confusing you.
 
MV Agusta won 18 of 19 premier class championships between '56 and '74. Depending upon who you ask, the rules put in place to save MV Agusta actually ended up sealing the company's fate as the premier class switched to two strokes circa 1975. MV Agusta also thought that winning = success. Where are they now?



Perhaps your definition of 'success' should be broadened a bit.



I never suggested altering the rules based upon budgets, revenues, or sales. Nor did I insist on budget caps or salary caps as used by other sports institutions. I did suggest that the technical regulations should be liberalized so the engineers have more freedom, and I did suggest that winning teams should be forced into more challenging scenarios to maintain public interest, which gives value to the MSMA's engineering efforts and competitive accomplishments. I don't see how either of those characteristics could be construed as punishment, particularly after the MSMA just reduced fuel-capacity b/c they were bored.



As far as I can see, the fuel index is a sophisticated version of the clumsy two-tiered system they have now.



MV Agusta was a vanity project for Count Agusta. His death, combined with the increasing competitiveness of the two-strokes (or lack of competitiveness against the two-strokes) is what made them leave GPs.

Not the '69 rule changes - which mainly affected the smaller classes, which MV had not competed in for years.

Another bad example of you making stuff up to suit your purpose.
 
Well bugger me!!! really!!?



Bit of a kick in the teeth for some of us powersliders then isn't it?



I mean ......



Rog. kept telling him not to sign Stoner ......... ignored ......



Jumkie keeps insisting he has to sack Pedrosa ............ ignored^[sup]1000[/sup]



and I have warned all and sundry about VSG's but apparently Honda are going 90deg V4 ..... oops sorry of the letter shape police ....L4?? ......... ignored ........... at their own peril!!!



and everybody here ( except me ) seems to hate Marquez !!!!
 
Lex,

Put down The Road to Serfdom and read some technical literature.

Aluminium pistons. Wow. Go tell W.O. about this exotica.

Aluminium Rods? Umm. No.

And Honda can't sell Titanium conrods for the CBR1000. The road bike has steel rods, so the race bike does, too. Rules, you see.

Perhaps you're thinking of the top end. But I daren't go there for fear of further confusing you.



You are correct. The connecting rods are steel. I probably mixed up the stock con rod material b/c I was talking to a tech who said they use a chromoly alloy that is so strong that the rods can be made as light as aluminum. Feel free to verify, I've not investigated. I probably just remembered the aluminum part. AMA requires stock steel connecting rods, but WSBK has free connecting rods for four cylinder bikes. Twins must use stock rods, but as I said, the Ducati R-models are equipped with stock titanium rods.



I don't understand the aluminum piston remark. They do use forged aluminum pistons in the stock bikes. I've been told that major manufacturers have titanium or similar metallurgy for pistons as well. Pistons can be replaced in WSBK.
 
Well bugger me!!! really!!?



Bit of a kick in the teeth for some of us powersliders then isn't it?



I mean ......



Rog. kept telling him not to sign Stoner ......... ignored ......



Jumkie keeps insisting he has to sack Pedrosa ............ ignored^[sup]1000[/sup]



and I have warned all and sundry about VSG's but apparently Honda are going 90deg V4 ..... oops sorry of the letter shape police ....L4?? ......... ignored ........... at their own peril!!!



and everybody here ( except me ) seems to hate Marquez !!!!



I don't hate Marquette, I just think he is a ..... There is a difference.
 
MV Agusta was a vanity project for Count Agusta. His death, combined with the increasing competitiveness of the two-strokes (or lack of competitiveness against the two-strokes) is what made them leave GPs.

Not the '69 rule changes - which mainly affected the smaller classes, which MV had not competed in for years.

Another bad example of you making stuff up to suit your purpose.



I've not made anything up. The four-cylinder rule (including different limits on the lower classes) was imposed on the premier class b/c they were worried it would end up like the lower classes. The rule expedited/necessitated 2-stroke technology which knocked MV Agusta off of its pedestal. MV won 3 more titles after Count Agusta's death. They didn't stop winning until Yamaha showed up with a fast 2-stroke (and Ago).



My point was that you equated winning with success, which is not the case. The Japanese were successful b/c they built stable companies. MV fell apart b/c it was a racing dictatorship until Agusta died. No viable succession plan for MV.



Winning is profitability for companies. If I had imposed financially-dependent regulations on the competitors like budget caps or salary caps, I could understand the 'punishing success' remark. However, the regulations I outlined are ignorant of corporate success and since they are designed to raise the value of MotoGP, they can hardly be construed as punishment.
 
You are correct. The connecting rods are steel. I probably mixed up the stock con rod material b/c I was talking to a tech who said they use a chromoly alloy that is so strong that the rods can be made as light as aluminum. Feel free to verify, I've not investigated. I probably just remembered the aluminum part. AMA requires stock steel connecting rods, but WSBK has free connecting rods for four cylinder bikes. Twins must use stock rods, but as I said, the Ducati R-models are equipped with stock titanium rods.



I don't understand the aluminum piston remark. They do use forged aluminum pistons in the stock bikes. I've been told that major manufacturers have titanium or similar metallurgy for pistons as well. Pistons can be replaced in WSBK.



2012 Rules: http://www.amaproracing.com/assets/AMAPro-RR-2012-Rulebook.pdf





g. Connecting Rods

i. . Connecting rods must remain as homologated. No modifications are allowed.

ii. Polishing and lightening is not allowed.



h. Pistons

i. Pistons must remain as homologated. No modifications are allowed.



i. Piston Rings

i. Piston rings must remain and be installed as homologated. No modifications are allowed.



j. Piston Pins and Clips

i. Piston pins and clips must remain as homologated. No modifications are allowed.



So unless they are selling homologated sports bikes with titanium or chrome-moly con-rods, they are stock steel.