MotoGP is not World Superbikes
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Dec 21 2009, 10:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Peter Clifford agrees with me:
Of course, interestingly, they[Yamaha] did an awful lot of that with the TZs, the 250s, the 350s and the 750s, and I'm sure that made commercial sense for them because they were selling them and everyone else was racing them for them. I bet you they wish they could go back to that kind of era. But you just can't do that with a four stroke. They're just too expensive to run, the only cheap things to run are two strokes.
http://www.motomatters.com/interview/2009/...1_there_s_.html
http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/06/two-...es-strike-back/
Looky Looky!
<u>
Suter says that Traction control will not be necessary: “If you have a nice torque curve and throttle connection you don’t need it. It’s more for bikes with damaged torque curves, like highly-tuned four-strokes.”</u>
Of course, interestingly, they[Yamaha] did an awful lot of that with the TZs, the 250s, the 350s and the 750s, and I'm sure that made commercial sense for them because they were selling them and everyone else was racing them for them. I bet you they wish they could go back to that kind of era. But you just can't do that with a four stroke. They're just too expensive to run, the only cheap things to run are two strokes.
http://www.motomatters.com/interview/2009/...1_there_s_.html
http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/06/two-...es-strike-back/
Looky Looky!
<u>
Suter says that Traction control will not be necessary: “If you have a nice torque curve and throttle connection you don’t need it. It’s more for bikes with damaged torque curves, like highly-tuned four-strokes.”</u>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Dec 31 2009, 09:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/06/two-...es-strike-back/
Looky Looky!
<u>
Suter says that Traction control will not be necessary: “If you have a nice torque curve and throttle connection you don’t need it. It’s more for bikes with damaged torque curves, like highly-tuned four-strokes.”</u>
Nice quote showing just how angled the whole article is.
Traction control have more than one use and of the more important and boring is the use of TC when tires get shot. This enable the riders to maintain lap times fairly easy at the end of races, effectively eliminating riders errors and changes in the order. In the 990 days they seldom used TC with qualification tires. First of all they said there were no use but even more likely the TC didn't adapt very well to the very different tires. So there were no damaged torque curves there, but never the less everyone used TC in the races.
Sure they could have done without, staying with the pack for the first few laps until errors and tire wear took the better of them.
Looky Looky!
<u>
Suter says that Traction control will not be necessary: “If you have a nice torque curve and throttle connection you don’t need it. It’s more for bikes with damaged torque curves, like highly-tuned four-strokes.”</u>
Nice quote showing just how angled the whole article is.
Traction control have more than one use and of the more important and boring is the use of TC when tires get shot. This enable the riders to maintain lap times fairly easy at the end of races, effectively eliminating riders errors and changes in the order. In the 990 days they seldom used TC with qualification tires. First of all they said there were no use but even more likely the TC didn't adapt very well to the very different tires. So there were no damaged torque curves there, but never the less everyone used TC in the races.
Sure they could have done without, staying with the pack for the first few laps until errors and tire wear took the better of them.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 2 2010, 08:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nice quote showing just how angled the whole article is.
Traction control have more than one use and of the more important and boring is the use of TC when tires get shot. This enable the riders to maintain lap times fairly easy at the end of races, effectively eliminating riders errors and changes in the order. In the 990 days they seldom used TC with qualification tires. First of all they said there were no use but even more likely the TC didn't adapt very well to the very different tires. So there were no damaged torque curves there, but never the less everyone used TC in the races.
Sure they could have done without, staying with the pack for the first few laps until errors and tire wear took the better of them.
Hopefully we may also see the single tyre rule abolished as B/S and Pirelli have it too easy at the top, and for Motogp at least, it has only proven to spread the field more. TC and Suspension development seem to be the only contributing factors to 09's marginally quicker lap times.
Proof of this was at PI this year, when an Aussie Superbike Rider on a Factory GSXR1000 which isn't to WSBK specs, would have Qualified for Motogp!! Highly embarrassing for the Rizla boys. Interestingly he was on Dunlop's......
Bike, Suspension, Brakes, even Leathers and Helmet manufacturers are in constant competition at the top......and arguably one of the most important contributing elements to race outcomes in the worlds premium prototype motorcycle racing championship- Tyres, are now in very limited supply by one manufacture for five different bike makes- all with vastly different blue prints and 18 different riders......IMO making an ECU more important than rubber is clearly the main problem with the current series.
With any luck the French Rubber will be back for the return of the 1000's.
Traction control have more than one use and of the more important and boring is the use of TC when tires get shot. This enable the riders to maintain lap times fairly easy at the end of races, effectively eliminating riders errors and changes in the order. In the 990 days they seldom used TC with qualification tires. First of all they said there were no use but even more likely the TC didn't adapt very well to the very different tires. So there were no damaged torque curves there, but never the less everyone used TC in the races.
Sure they could have done without, staying with the pack for the first few laps until errors and tire wear took the better of them.
Hopefully we may also see the single tyre rule abolished as B/S and Pirelli have it too easy at the top, and for Motogp at least, it has only proven to spread the field more. TC and Suspension development seem to be the only contributing factors to 09's marginally quicker lap times.
Proof of this was at PI this year, when an Aussie Superbike Rider on a Factory GSXR1000 which isn't to WSBK specs, would have Qualified for Motogp!! Highly embarrassing for the Rizla boys. Interestingly he was on Dunlop's......
Bike, Suspension, Brakes, even Leathers and Helmet manufacturers are in constant competition at the top......and arguably one of the most important contributing elements to race outcomes in the worlds premium prototype motorcycle racing championship- Tyres, are now in very limited supply by one manufacture for five different bike makes- all with vastly different blue prints and 18 different riders......IMO making an ECU more important than rubber is clearly the main problem with the current series.
With any luck the French Rubber will be back for the return of the 1000's.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jan 2 2010, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>......and arguably one of the most important contributing elements to race outcomes in the worlds premium prototype motorcycle racing championship- Tyres, are now in very limited supply by one manufacture for five different bike makes- all with vastly different blue prints and 18 different riders......
Its what happens when u design tires around (the) ONE person.
Its what happens when u design tires around (the) ONE person.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jan 3 2010, 01:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Proof of this was at PI this year, when an Aussie Superbike Rider on a Factory GSXR1000 which isn't to WSBK specs, would have Qualified for Motogp!! Highly embarrassing for the Rizla boys. Interestingly he was on Dunlop's......
I doubt it. The 1000 couldn't touch the MotoGP bike. Qualifying is not racing. The fact is they have equal hp but that is about it.
I doubt it. The 1000 couldn't touch the MotoGP bike. Qualifying is not racing. The fact is they have equal hp but that is about it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Jan 4 2010, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I doubt it. The 1000 couldn't touch the MotoGP bike. Qualifying is not racing. The fact is they have equal hp but that is about it.
The Aussie SBK's run a bit over 200hp, last time I saw accurate figures for Motogp they were around 280hp......what is similar about this??
You should be happy that Suzuki have at least got their Superbike sorted
The Aussie SBK's run a bit over 200hp, last time I saw accurate figures for Motogp they were around 280hp......what is similar about this??
You should be happy that Suzuki have at least got their Superbike sorted
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jan 3 2010, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Aussie SBK's run a bit over 200hp, last time I saw accurate figures for Motogp they were around 280hp......what is similar about this??
Where have you read this? The HP numbers of the 800s are kept very close to the vest, I haven't read any true numbers since they've arrived. I've read that the estimates are around 230hp. The last of the 990s were rumored to be around 250hp and the 1000s are expected to be in the 260hp ballpark, but I've never heard numbers as high as 280hp.
Where have you read this? The HP numbers of the 800s are kept very close to the vest, I haven't read any true numbers since they've arrived. I've read that the estimates are around 230hp. The last of the 990s were rumored to be around 250hp and the 1000s are expected to be in the 260hp ballpark, but I've never heard numbers as high as 280hp.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jan 3 2010, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Aussie SBK's run a bit over 200hp, last time I saw accurate figures for Motogp they were around 280hp......what is similar about this??
You should be happy that Suzuki have at least got their Superbike sorted
Dang dude,that would put the litre bikes at around 335 hp. The figures i saw thrown around for the the previous 990's was anywhere from 240 to 260 and
the 800's at around 220
You should be happy that Suzuki have at least got their Superbike sorted
Dang dude,that would put the litre bikes at around 335 hp. The figures i saw thrown around for the the previous 990's was anywhere from 240 to 260 and
the 800's at around 220
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jan 3 2010, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Aussie SBK's run a bit over 200hp, last time I saw accurate figures for Motogp they were around 280hp......what is similar about this??
You should be happy that Suzuki have at least got their Superbike sorted
The 1000 isn't all that sorted and I'm not really hooked on production racing so how good it is doesn't affect me. And I'm not an inline 4 fan at all. Suzuki puts their V4 MotoGP engine in the 220 hp range and probably the big guns have 10hp more or so. 280 is inaccurate for the previous 990's. Mid 200's is likely where they were and at that point there is not much use for more the throttle would just never open fully except for maybe at the long end of the odd superlong straight. The 1000's are chosen for the additional torque. Top end at some point is just a useless waste of highly limited fuel.
To even suggest that a GP motorcycle engine would have 280hp shows a certain lack of experience. I ride a road bike with 115hp and it is remarkably quick and fast for its stock weight. 220 seems beyond comprehension and just by knowing what 115hp is I know 280hp is just not happening.
You should be happy that Suzuki have at least got their Superbike sorted
The 1000 isn't all that sorted and I'm not really hooked on production racing so how good it is doesn't affect me. And I'm not an inline 4 fan at all. Suzuki puts their V4 MotoGP engine in the 220 hp range and probably the big guns have 10hp more or so. 280 is inaccurate for the previous 990's. Mid 200's is likely where they were and at that point there is not much use for more the throttle would just never open fully except for maybe at the long end of the odd superlong straight. The 1000's are chosen for the additional torque. Top end at some point is just a useless waste of highly limited fuel.
To even suggest that a GP motorcycle engine would have 280hp shows a certain lack of experience. I ride a road bike with 115hp and it is remarkably quick and fast for its stock weight. 220 seems beyond comprehension and just by knowing what 115hp is I know 280hp is just not happening.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Jan 5 2010, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The 1000 isn't all that sorted and I'm not really hooked on production racing so how good it is doesn't affect me. And I'm not an inline 4 fan at all. Suzuki puts their V4 MotoGP engine in the 220 hp range and probably the big guns have 10hp more or so. 280 is inaccurate for the previous 990's. Mid 200's is likely where they were and at that point there is not much use for more the throttle would just never open fully except for maybe at the long end of the odd superlong straight. The 1000's are chosen for the additional torque. Top end at some point is just a useless waste of highly limited fuel.
To even suggest that a GP motorcycle engine would have 280hp shows a certain lack of experience. I ride a road bike with 115hp and it is remarkably quick and fast for its stock weight. 220 seems beyond comprehension and just by knowing what 115hp is I know 280hp is just not happening.
come off the grass......the 500's were pushing 200hp, and that's 9 years ago, at the end of the 990's the rumors were of in excess of 270 and yes as Austin said the gp guys are keeping this close to their chest, so of course we are speculating based on hearsay.....Pedrosa's top speed record at Mugello suggests the 800's are well above an Aussie superbike in hp and are being choked by TC because of the way they deliver it............ my Road going K9-1000 makes 175.
To even suggest that a GP motorcycle engine would have 280hp shows a certain lack of experience. I ride a road bike with 115hp and it is remarkably quick and fast for its stock weight. 220 seems beyond comprehension and just by knowing what 115hp is I know 280hp is just not happening.
come off the grass......the 500's were pushing 200hp, and that's 9 years ago, at the end of the 990's the rumors were of in excess of 270 and yes as Austin said the gp guys are keeping this close to their chest, so of course we are speculating based on hearsay.....Pedrosa's top speed record at Mugello suggests the 800's are well above an Aussie superbike in hp and are being choked by TC because of the way they deliver it............ my Road going K9-1000 makes 175.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jan 4 2010, 04:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Aussie SBK's run a bit over 200hp, last time I saw accurate figures for Motogp they were around 280hp......what is similar about this??
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>at the end of the 990's the rumors were of in excess of 270 and yes as Austin said the gp guys are keeping this close to their chest, so of course we are speculating based on hearsay
care to un-contradict yourself or is this the official "sea of yellow" position?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>at the end of the 990's the rumors were of in excess of 270 and yes as Austin said the gp guys are keeping this close to their chest, so of course we are speculating based on hearsay
care to un-contradict yourself or is this the official "sea of yellow" position?
I don't think 280 is an unreasonable claim for the peak performance of GP 990s; however, I doubt very much that the engines were ever fully unleashed b/c the old engineering maxims stated that anything in excess of 230-240bhp was simply a waste of time and money.
In Noyes latest article he says the Desmosedici had an 86mm bore. If that information is correct, the Ducati could have achieved mean piston velocity of ~25m/s at 18,000 rpm. I'm not certain, but a 990cc engine at 18,000 rpm is probably capable of much better than 250hp.
In Noyes latest article he says the Desmosedici had an 86mm bore. If that information is correct, the Ducati could have achieved mean piston velocity of ~25m/s at 18,000 rpm. I'm not certain, but a 990cc engine at 18,000 rpm is probably capable of much better than 250hp.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jan 5 2010, 02:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>come off the grass......the 500's were pushing 200hp, and that's 9 years ago, at the end of the 990's the rumors were of in excess of 270 and yes as Austin said the gp guys are keeping this close to their chest, so of course we are speculating based on hearsay.....Pedrosa's top speed record at Mugello suggests the 800's are well above an Aussie superbike in hp and are being choked by TC because of the way they deliver it............ my Road going K9-1000 makes 175.
I agree the 500's were in the 200hp area and the 800's are some 20 to 30hp more. I am sort of a motogp junkie and I never heard rumours that anyone had 270hp. Pedrosa's result is likely due to several things not just outright hp. Corner speeds are higher so he'd be faster to begin with, Pedrosa is light as a bird and the drag of a motogp bike is pretty low compared to a stocker. It isn't all just outright hp. TC doesn't choke outright power just the delivery. I have never ridden a K9 but I'm sure 175hp is transformational.
I agree the 500's were in the 200hp area and the 800's are some 20 to 30hp more. I am sort of a motogp junkie and I never heard rumours that anyone had 270hp. Pedrosa's result is likely due to several things not just outright hp. Corner speeds are higher so he'd be faster to begin with, Pedrosa is light as a bird and the drag of a motogp bike is pretty low compared to a stocker. It isn't all just outright hp. TC doesn't choke outright power just the delivery. I have never ridden a K9 but I'm sure 175hp is transformational.
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