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Moto GP test ride...what the PROS think..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skidmark @ Dec 9 2007, 01:03 PM) [snapback]103903[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/showPic

the links a blank page paul......
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skidmark @ Dec 9 2007, 03:49 AM) [snapback]103887[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
i agree with all that.

lexicon the swingarm pivot point has no bearing on where a rider sits his .... the hayden thing is a different issue, he said the bike was small, the media jumped on it after that making the honda 'tiny' and some people have bought into it. i thought mass centralization was hondas marketing slogan in 2003 when they launched the cbr600rr and then blade, was a good one because it seems to have stuck.


1. Hayden said in the post unveiling interview that he thought he was being Punk'd. In other words he thought the bike was a joke.

2. Hayden said later that the thing he hated most was the seat.

3. The first part redesigned was the seat. It was lengthened by 1 inch.........to allow a 1 inch foam pad to be inserted behind Nicky's backside.

4. The bar/seat distance was so short that Nicky couldn't get his head behind the fairing. His head bounced of the the tank for half the season before Honda made him a new fairing that would accommodate his torso.

Yes. I can see how the media might mistakenly think that the cockpit is significantly smaller than it was on the RC211V.
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The swingarm pivot position matters for a myriad of reasons. Especially, on modern bikes where the rider sits behind the shock. If I remember correctly you are a serious rider, skid, so I have no idea why you would say otherwise. You already know you couldn't hang your ... 3 or 4" farther off the back of the bike, because it would have roughly the same effect it does when you are braking. Obviously, you can make the subframe any size you want, but obviously you won't go quickly if you upset the suspension/weight distribution to make room for your knees and elbows.

I suppose there is a possibility you haven't ridden anything newer than a twin sprung cafe racer. (Joking)

Mass centralization is more than a marketing slogan as evidenced by the V-5's "high crank" and the awful mass centralized clutch they forced Nicky to test down the home stretch of his maiden title victory.
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Fine. We see it two different ways. I believe that the reports are not exaggerated and that Nicky would have changed cockpit dimensions if he could have. But he didn't because he couldn't because it made the bike slow and Honda wouldn't build the parts.

You believe the entire thing is media sensationalism and that the bike isn't small..........it's just a media talking point to sell advertising space. Furthermore, you believe Nicky hasn't moved the seat because he didn't need to because the bike is properly built.

Sad after an entire year of watching the exact same thing, we can't even reach square one. I guess that's the hidden gem of the information age.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Dec 8 2007, 08:36 AM) [snapback]103788[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I'm sorry but I can have no other reaction than this
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This is the most pointless debate in the history of all debates. So I'm going to end it right now.
Actually I think the debate ended when drumfu posted the specs of the RC211V and TC212V in post # 27.

Hayden may have commented that the bike is small (and the bike does look small because of the small tail section) at the unveiling. But, as babelfish has pointed out, its easy to fix the ergos to fit the rider.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crvlvr @ Dec 11 2007, 10:40 AM) [snapback]104032[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Actually I think the debate ended when drumfu posted the specs of the RC211V and TC212V in post # 27.

Well obviously you don't believe it was over @27 because you just posted.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Dec 9 2007, 09:03 PM) [snapback]103940[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Mass centralization is more than a marketing slogan as evidenced by the V-5's "high crank" and the awful mass centralized clutch they forced Nicky to test down the home stretch of his maiden title victory.
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From Wikipedia:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>Hayden's RC211V was modified to put the crankshaft higher, the clutch and gearbox lower, and to lengthen the swing arm; the goal was to centralize mass and improve stability. After the Jerez round, Hayden was the fastest Honda rider in testing[8]. At the British GP, HRC gave Hayden a new chassis, but Hayden complained that he didn't have enough time to test it. Hayden had started the year with the same clutch as Pedrosa, but 4 rounds later it was shelved in favor of a clutch Hayden had used in previous years; at the Brno round, he had a problem with the clutch that contributed to a 9th-place finish. Honda and Hayden had difficulty finding a clutch that would allow a good launch at the start but also work well throughout the race. Hayden eventually won the rider championship and Honda reclaimed the constructor's championship
Ok, here are my observations:

1. honda has a history of building great bikes
2. Honda has a history of winning chamopionships which means they have to accomodate rider's needs
3. Hayden seems to have a history of having bikes (or bike parts), that seem to work for everyone else, not work for him.
 
Here's mine.

1. Burgess has a history of winning all Honda's recent championships
2. Burgess makes Honda equipment work for the rider.
3. Every year Honda hands Nicky a new piece of junk developed for no one. Every year Nicky develops the bike, and improves throughout the course of the season.
4. One year Nicky got a good bike at the beginning then Honda tried to ruin it. Luckily, (the only lucky part about it) Nicky was able to hold off Honda (even when they sent the Bot on a suicide mission) and beat Valentino like he had during the first 2/3 of the season.

Let's recap. Give Nicky a new piece of crap every year and he will finish mid top 10. But if you give him a good bike THEN try to break it, then give him the good bike back, he will win. History has proven it works.
 
Agreed, Burgess was crucial factor. He has been on the winning team long before Rossi was winnig championships.

But, all in all, a crew chief's, in Burgess's own words, primary responsibility is to make the bike more comfortable for the rider. So, a piece of crap bike is made a more comfortable piece of crap.

Yes, Burgess is gone, But, Hayden has Pete Benson who helped Hayden deliver a championship.

May be Nicky is just a difficult customer?

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/19092006/23/...800-monday.html
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>Hayden's crew chief Pete Benson recently said: "We have probably lost at least one practice session at almost every grand prix to tyre testing. Nicky's bike is a lot more difficult to set up than Dani's: the engine, the chassis and the swinging-arm are all different."
 
Yeah Benson was talking about 2006 and his response was meant to add context to the question "Why can't Hayden focus on riding instead of development?" The most appropriate question ever asked.

I'm confident though that this season just as many things, if not more, were different by the end of the season because Nicky's job description is the same.

Nicky didn't threaten to leave in 2007 when he realized the bike was crap. Maybe, I've spoken too early cause he might pull that in 2008 when he has to re-up with someone. Pedro is the tough customer. I seem to remember him bringing long-term company planning to a grinding halt, when he started whining mid-season.

This kid is Honda's 800cc golden child and they almost couldn't get him to ink after they gambled and built the 212V for him, or bought him for the bike, whatever.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Dec 12 2007, 07:27 AM) [snapback]104123[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Yeah Benson was talking about 2006 and his response was meant to add context to the question "Why can't Hayden focus on riding instead of development?" The most appropriate question ever asked.
My observation is that Hayden's riding style is different from most of the other MotoGP riders. That's probably because dirt track and AMA superbike (4stroke) experience compared to the 250cc 2stroke experience of the other riders. Nicky is not being asked to develop a bike for Honda. Rather, Honda has to modify the bike to suit his riding style. Obviously that is a lot of effort, for only one rider.

In other words modifications made for Nicky cannot be used for any other 6 riders that Honda has on the grid. And, we are talking about major modifications like chasis, engine placement etc. Yes, Honda went all out in 2006 for Nicky becuase he had a chance of winning that year. But, I can see why they continue to hope that Nicky will adapt to their bike rather than than them having to modify the bike just for Nicky.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crvlvr @ Dec 12 2007, 08:40 PM) [snapback]104153[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
My observation is that Hayden's riding style is different from most of the other MotoGP riders. That's probably because dirt track and AMA superbike (4stroke) experience compared to the 250cc 2stroke experience of the other riders. Nicky is not being asked to develop a bike for Honda. Rather, Honda has to modify the bike to suit his riding style. Obviously that is a lot of effort, for only one rider.

In other words modifications made for Nicky cannot be used for any other 6 riders that Honda has on the grid. And, we are talking about major modifications like chasis, engine placement etc. Yes, Honda went all out in 2006 for Nicky becuase he had a chance of winning that year. But, I can see why they continue to hope that Nicky will adapt to their bike rather than than them having to modify the bike just for Nicky.

Honda did not go all out for Nicky. What season were you watching?
If anything Honda put their thumbs up their butt and shuffled around until it was almost to late for Nicky. Nicky did not and does not have the support that Rossi had nor Pedrosa has.

Hayden is a good rider. If you haven't noticed the difference in the motogp paddock is in the tenths to hundredths where as others series WSBK/BSB/AMA the differences in the top riders are more close to a second.
Give the guy some credit for his accomplishments and a break for the situation that he is in.

The RC211v was initially developed around a certain V.Rossi. The bike has been praised by all that came from other Factory teams to ride it. The RC212 is a Pedrosa bike.

Get real. CEII, Hayden and many others acknowledge that the bike was built to suit Pedrosa.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Duc999 @ Dec 16 2007, 07:46 PM) [snapback]104551[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The RC211v was initially developed around a certain V.Rossi. The bike has been praised by all that came from other Factory teams to ride it. The RC212 is a Pedrosa bike.


Rossi knows how to develop bikes, Biaggi does somewhat and Gibernau was probably the next best.

Thats alot better than Hayden, Pedrosa and Melandri on his non factory machine who i think is the better option out of those 3 who's opinion probably never counted.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 17 2007, 12:31 PM) [snapback]104565[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Rossi knows how to develop bikes,


Gee!!
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In another thread you are saying Rossi hates all the electronics aids that he himself helped develop
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Fickled
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 17 2007, 05:33 AM) [snapback]104584[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Gee!!
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In another thread you are saying Rossi hates all the electronics aids that he himself helped develop
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Fickled
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Gee... i wasn't aware of his summer job at Magnetti Marelli
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 17 2007, 05:32 PM) [snapback]104589[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Gee... i wasn't aware of his summer job at Magnetti Marelli
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Just as it was his summer job at Yamaha, Michelin, etc. etc. etc. he doesn't have Magnetti Marelli "adverts" on his bike for nothing .....
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 17 2007, 08:45 PM) [snapback]104604[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Just as it was his summer job at Yamaha, Michelin, etc. etc. etc. he doesn't have Magnetti Marelli "adverts" on his bike for nothing .....
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Magnetti Marelli
Subsidiary of Fiat Group who happen to be Yamaha's current major sponsor.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frizzle @ Dec 17 2007, 11:15 AM) [snapback]104612[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Magnetti Marelli
Subsidiary of Fiat Group who happen to be Yamaha's current major sponsor.

Oddly, ferrari, at least until recently a subsidiary of fiat are also rumoured to have helped ducati.
 

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