Moto GP test ride...what the PROS think..

Wow, never seen them side by side before, unreal! Poor Hayden, just won alot more respect for the guy. So I guess this would be one of the reasons why there are all sorts of theories about how Repsol is running the show and standing behind their man...that and the 0 publisity that Hayden got as world champ last year (at least over here).

I would where that stands in the whole "disrespecting a champ" philosophy.

Yeah...take notice that when in full tuck, Dani's elbows do not touch his knees AT ALL.

Nicky isn't the tallest/biggest guy in MOTOGP, but he cannot get as good a tuck as Dani, hence the slower top speeds.

I need to find the pic of Dovisioso, he barely fits on the thing!! His elbosw are totally on the outside of his knees. He's about the same size as Vale, no?



Also...what is this about Puig being banned from the pit area? Can anyone enlighten us on where this information originated??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crvlvr @ Dec 6 2007, 11:20 AM) [snapback]103611[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Thanks for the link,

Schwantz's article was excellent.

The other guy's sucked.

I think this article confirms that tires made most of the difference this year -- although the Yamaha was a little crappier than the rest.

I really don't buy the whole" honda is too tiny" argument. A rider
s perception of bike size is based on the positions of the foot pegs, handle bar and seat -- all ofwhich can be adjusted. Fuel tank width can be changed too, as what is visible is just a cover these days





Well then can you ask them to build the subframe 4" longer so you have room for your knees and elbows? Then can you have them move the internals forward so the bike maintains proper weight distribution?

At Honda I don't think the latter is a realistic request. Now you know why mass centralization of the machine without consideration for the rider makes the horse jockey a hero.

@ Curve--No, I'm certain CE said he rode the Yam with Vale's settings and he said he had to dial the electronics down because he didn't feel in control.

Vale rides with electronic assist as high as he can get them and still maintain pace. I remember the vid interview like it was yesterday.

It makes sense. Back in the days of purely mechanical bikes Vale ruled the roost. He knows how to make the machinery do more than others. Therefore, the only time the electronics kick in are when his life is in danger. If Vale is spinning the rear wheel it's because he is about to die (or he's showing off or his tires have failed ) not because he's ham-fisted an apex. He needs his electros extra sharp to keep him undamaged.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xx CURVE xx @ Dec 6 2007, 11:40 AM) [snapback]103614[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>


yeah....it's not small.



for the 1000th time, the 212 and 211 are almost IDENTICAL specwise. i've posted the spec comparisons on this forum more than once. the difference in size is literally millimeters and thats only on 1 or 2 areas, the rest are identical.

also, those pics are NOT a good comparison. you compare a pic of dani in full tuck with nicky sitting up.

stop the madness.

EDIT: my bad, i may have posted those specs on another forum... so here they are for all you guys...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>the dimensions of the rc212v are almost identical to that of the rc211v.

the idea that it's way smaller than the 211 is just plain incorrect.

it LOOKS smaller because of the new tail, but in reality it is not.

EDIT:

here's a comparison...

RC211V
Length: 2050 mm
Width: 645 mm
Height: 1130 mm
Wheelbase: 1440 mm
Road Clearance: 130 mm

RC212V
Length: 2050 mm
Width: 645 mm
Height: 1125 mm
Wheelbase: 1440 mm
Road clearance: 125 mm

the only differences between the two are that the 212 is 5mm shorter (height) and has 5mm less Ground Clearance. we're talking millimeters which are not at all noticeable by the naked eye.

For the 100th time. When you lengthen the swingarm and shorten the frame and subframe you create a tiny cockpit.

The cockpit determines whether or not people fit on a bike.



look at this badass, don't you think he deserves a bike with proper dimensions (not talking about overall length or height or any other stat sheet. How does that saying go? They're are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics

Test rides giving judgement on TC on bikes is like a test of a guitar amp then saying the volume is too loud and the sound is too trebly.

I wonder if next the TC "naysayers" want the throttle removed and an on-off switch put in its place

Don't worry Lexicon ...... I've given up with them. But I think their mind is made up ....

I'll say it again .... TC is very adjustable ..... it is adjusted by the rider taking into account track, temperatures, grip, tyre selection, emotional state of mind .. whatever ... it is impossible for a test rider to get on a bike for one ride and say "the XXX has the best TC". There is just too much in the operation of TC for anyone to be able to tell in one day let alone a few laps.

The best TC would be judged on its algorithms and the performance of the interfaces, sensors, and actuators ...... not by a one off ride around a track. I doubt that even a test rider could tell who has there TC turned up the most. I wonder how many of the test riders actually even touched thw switches for the TC?


Mamola mumbled it all pretty right in the interview after his test of Rossi's bike ..... he alluded to the fact that it was set "as they let him ride it .. so who can tell ??".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xx CURVE xx @ Dec 6 2007, 10:05 PM) [snapback]103636[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
dude..i've seen the interview..you are wrong....hello...it's in that mag.

Yes... Vale's electronics were dialed down compared to CEII.

I believe I read somewhere this year where Hayden started improving once his electronics were turned down a bit, anyone else remember hearing or reading this?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(L8Braker @ Dec 8 2007, 01:39 AM) [snapback]103693[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I believe I read somewhere this year where Hayden started improving once his electronics were turned down a bit, anyone else remember hearing or reading this?


Wasn't that the wrong Hayden .... at laguna?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 7 2007, 02:58 PM) [snapback]103698[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Wasn't that the wrong Hayden .... at laguna?

No, I think it was the wrong roberts at laguna; I may be mistaken this late at night. I hasten to add that I am very keen to see the kr team continue, with or without robertses as riders. It is easy to lose sight of how competitive the kr team was as recently as last year. 2007 was a very bad year to be at the bottom of the honda food chain.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xx CURVE xx @ Dec 7 2007, 04:05 PM) [snapback]103706[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I didn't read it...but you are right...at one of the races the comentator did mention that...said he had the electros turned off or down i cant recal witch....so he could have better control of the nail.



It was Eurosport commentators, and it was Nicky having some of the TC dialed down/off so that it would not actuate as much and would allow Hayden to slide through corners more...

He first used the 'new' setting in either Cataluyna or at Donington which led him to getting a couple of podiums in Germany and Netherlands, and would have probably served him well going into Laguna....but continued to work well going into Brno.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xx CURVE xx @ Dec 8 2007, 03:05 AM) [snapback]103706[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I didn't read it...but you are right...at one of the races the comentator did mention that...said he had the electros turned off or down i cant recal witch....so he could have better control of the nail.

I think it was the Dutch TT at Assen..

I remember hearing that also (about the TC off so as to suit his riding style of sliding through the corners) on eurosport.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Dec 8 2007, 02:19 AM) [snapback]103702[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
No, I think it was the wrong roberts at laguna;


Ah that was what I was wondering if you meant.

But really its no big deal, its done all the time.

Before PI the TV station here ran an interview with Daryl Beatty and Stoner and he described having switches he uses throughout the race, They have opted for a range of programs that allow for changes they anticipate throughout the race. He did say its pretty standard to adjust it as the tyres are fading throughout a race.

The one that got me was he said at Donnington the TC had a hickup coping when he hit a white line at start ..... and I believe he said he turned it off, or down, and was able to proceed better.

But again I still think its a mute argument as in the end TC just makes the fast guys go faster. History also shows it slows the slow guys.

And anyway its been around for years .... why are we saying its no good now?, indeed Rossi himself came to prominence with a bike using TC, Hayden won his title on TC ...... just because those guys are no longer winning ..... it seems crazy to blame something we are only just realising is used .... even though its been there for years.

If any rider is saying TC makes them uncompetitive then they need to work on the programming of it better ......... or regulate it .... so that they again may win under their conditions. If Stoners setup of TC gave him an edge over say Capi .... or Rossi ... or anyone .... well then a rule to make a rider give away his setup findings needs to be brought in , and then that should be extended to tyre choice braking suspension setup, chasis setup.

Crazy suggestion isn't it!! It would be a race series where Stoners TC programmer is "the main man" I think he'd get sick of his job pretty quick smart. Stoner does a few free practices and the other teams start lining up at their garage to get his settings.

That would be funny to watch really ..... because I think it would be mayhem watching them all try and ride a bike setup by Stoner

TC and ECU etc. etc. etc. maybe some riders have got it worked out better ..... that makes them all the better to me.

Oh and another possible reason it is suddenly important .. after being around for a while ..... perhaps Stoner is the first guy to really put a lot of rider input into getting it set as he wants it. Again ...... good rider!

If anyone feels I shouldn't bring the riders into it then think was TC a problem last year? or any proceeding year? No! ..... then why is it in the year that Stoner won?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Dec 6 2007, 03:30 PM) [snapback]103645[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
For the 100th time. When you lengthen the swingarm and shorten the frame and subframe you create a tiny cockpit.

The cockpit determines whether or not people fit on a bike.



look at this badass, don't you think he deserves a bike with proper dimensions (not talking about overall length or height or any other stat sheet. How does that saying go? They're are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics
Swing arm length has not bearing on seat height or distance of seat from handle bars as it is on a subframe. move the seat back and it will immdiately give the rider more room. Similarly footpegs are mounted on "rear-sets". which can be adjusted to suit the rider



Most riders scoot to the front of the nbike when accelerating anyways to keep the nose from going up. Check this photo of Nicky and notice the gap beween his rear and the seat back (note this is a RC211V)


Now if the RC212V was about the size shown below, I would have to agree that the bike is too small.



Thanks drumfu for posting those RC211V v. RC212V specs.