MM vs VR incident – still too many unanswered questions?

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where are you from bro?
i'm from the hippodrom, i'm there couple of times per year.
gp fan from my hometown, you're definately invited to a brew or 17
 
i don't think i've ever upset jumkie, wtf are you talking about?

edit: ahh. gotcha. but i'm more ace at cooking shine as lil red would hopefully agree. come back on if you read this!!!
 
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Xplosiv27 said:
this bit you are correct (VR had no obligation to let MM alter his defensive racing line).



Also
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See Kropotkin's take on the other thread. Fairly definitive.

What Rossi did was illegal, as the stewards found, and which no expert opinion has denied. What MM did may have been unethical particularly from your point of view if MM was deliberately sandbagging but was not illegal.

An even more unlikely conspiracy theory than Rossi's concerning the PI race is that the stewards are conspiring against Rossi. From my point of view as a fan of neither, both riders appear to think they have carte blanche having gotten away with quite a few things in the past. I would totally agree MM is by far the more reckless rider in general, but there was nothing wrong with any of his moves in this race as the stewards found.
 
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michaelm said:
See Kropotkin's take on the other thread. Fairly definitive.

What Rossi did was illegal, as the stewards found, and which no expert opinion has denied. What MM did may have been unethical particularly from your point of view if MM was deliberately sandbagging but was not illegal.

An even more unlikely conspiracy theory than Rossi's concerning the PI race is that the stewards are conspiring against Rossi. From my point of view as a fan of neither, both riders appear to think they have carte blanche having gotten away with quite a few things in the past. I would totally agree MM is by far the more reckless rider in general, but there was nothing wrong with any of his moves in this race as the stewards found.
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END OF STORY
 
THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS, ONLY THING, is that Rossi blatantly deviated from the racing line to interfere with another riders line. What his intentions, or what actually made Marquez fall is irrelevant. His actions caused the accident PERIOD. Why cant you morons get that through your thick skulls. Sorry to be so blunt [not really ] but race direction has told you the same thing in so many words and it didnt sink in. The only debate should be the penalty, and that shouldnt have been a debate. Rossi got the lightest penalty RD could come up with to save face. He should have been dq'd. So quit studying film and looking for military satellite footage to advance your argument, there isnt one. Rossi admitted what he did and what he did was illegal.Nothing Marquez did was illegal, PERIOD END OF.
 
povol said:
THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS, ONLY THING, is that Rossi blatantly deviated from the racing line to interfere with another riders line. What his intentions, or what actually made Marquez fall is irrelevant. His actions caused the accident PERIOD.
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This!
 
Let me explain it from a statistical point of view. If a leg is moving towards a bike and immediately after the supposed moment the leg hits the bike, the bike falls ... how high is the probability that the hitting leg caused the fall of the bike ?

Rossi can tell all the crap he wants, but even statistics is not at his side.
 
Marc Marquez said:
Let me explain it from a statistical point of view. If a leg is moving towards a bike and immediately after the supposed moment the leg hits the bike, the bike falls ... how high is the probability that the hitting leg caused the fall of the bike ?

Rossi can tell all the crap he wants, but even statistics is not at his side.
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Irrelevant, he was going to crash because of an action of Rossi's, anything he does in the process of that, which may be reflexive anyway, is a result of that, unless he takes a shifter from his back pocket and hits Rossi over the head with it as he falls, to which I don't think the leg contact was equivalent.

You are not helping your side of the argument much by posting in the same fashion as those you are debating, btw.
 
michaelm said:
Irrelevant, he was going to crash because of an action of Rossi's, anything he does in the process of that, which may be reflexive anyway, is a result of that, unless he takes a shifter from his back pocket and hits Rossi over the head with it as he falls, to which I don't think the leg contact was equivalent.

You are not helping your side of the argument much by posting in the same fashion as those you are debating, btw.
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I am not posting in the same fashion. There is clearly a kick from Rossi but Rossi fans say there was no kick. That's a plain stupid thing to say. Rossi fans live in some parallel universe. I do not. I look at the facts. If Marquez makes a mistake, I will just admit. That's the difference between me and the Rossi fanboys.

If you look with just a little bit of focus to the video you can clearly see that the bike gets a push when Rossi hits it with his leg. So for me it is unbelievable that we are here still debating that the kick didn't have any effect. It's ....... obvious. Have a clear look at the video and don't let the Rossi fanboys brainwash you that the kick had no effect. Rossi just uses tactics from the Nazis: if you repeat a lie often enough people will start to believe it. This is the tactic Jose Mourinho does. And they really keep pushing the lie and even going to court if they have to, just to convince people about their lies. Unfortunately, there are such pityful people on this planet.

minute 1:18-1:19



You have to be blind to not see that Rossi pushes the bike to the side with his leg and knee. This was clearly not a foot slipping from his bike. If his foot would have slipped, the bike wouldn't get such a push. With other words, Rossi did this on purpose. With other words, Rossi didn't only cheat but he also lied big times that he didn't want Marc to fall. Actually, you don't need to analyze the race to know Rossi did this on purpose. Rossi NEVER APOLOGISED for it, which is the second proof that he did it on purpose. No rider with no intention to make the other one fall, would not apologise. Instead of apologizing, he called him .......o.
 
Marc Marquez said:
I am not posting in the same fashion. There is clearly a kick from Rossi but Rossi fans say there was no kick. That's a plain stupid thing to say. Rossi fans live in some parallel universe. I do not. I look at the facts. If Marquez makes a mistake, I will just admit. That's the difference between me and the Rossi fanboys.

If you look with just a little bit of focus to the video you can clearly see that the bike gets a push when Rossi hits it with his leg. So for me it is unbelievable that we are here still debating that the kick didn't have any effect. It's ....... obvious. Have a clear look at the video and don't let the Rossi fanboys brainwash you that the kick had no effect. Rossi just uses tactics from the Nazis: if you repeat a lie often enough people will start to believe it. This is the tactic Jose Mourinho does. And they really keep pushing the lie and even going to court if they have to, just to convince people about their lies. Unfortunately, there are such pityful people on this planet.

minute 1:18-1:19



You have to be blind to not see that Rossi pushes the bike to the side with his leg and knee. This was clearly not a foot slipping from his bike. If his foot would have slipped, the bike wouldn't get such a push. With other words, Rossi did this on purpose. With other words, Rossi didn't only cheat but he also lied big times that he didn't want Marc to fall. Actually, you don't need to analyze the race to know Rossi did this on purpose. Rossi NEVER APOLOGISED for it, which is the second proof that he did it on purpose. No rider with no intention to make the other one fall, would not apologise. Instead of apologizing, he called him .......o.
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Speculation does not equal evidence....

The "kick" is eminently debatable and there is no proof either way = speculation.

The accusations in the presser and the deliberate act of forcing Marquez wide off the racing line causing him to crash are not = evidence.
 
Mr Squiggle said:
Speculation does not equal evidence....

The "kick" is eminently debatable and there is no proof either way = speculation.

The accusations in the presser and the deliberate act of forcing Marquez wide off the racing line causing him to crash are not = evidence.
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There is nothing to debate or to speculate about. Look at the vid. You can see that Marquez gets a push with Rossi's knee. Have you ever in your life see what happens when somebody or something gets a push ? I hope you did. Well, in that case you can also see the push. I gave you the vid and the minute where you can PERFECTLY see the push that Rossi gives to Lorenzo. If you choose to ignore the push, that is your problem. But that doesn't change the fact that Rossi clearly pushed Marquez with his knee and that he falls as a consequence of that push. All the rest is ........ from Rossi fans or from people that got sucked into the Rossi fans Goebels tactics. These Nazi tactics don't work on me. I look at the facts and base my opinion solely on that. Rossi deliberately crashed Marquez with his knee. Every person with sound vision can see that. He should have been blackflagged.
 
Marc Marquez said:
There is nothing to debate or to speculate about. Look at the vid. You can see that Marquez gets a push with Rossi's knee. Have you ever in your life see what happens when somebody or something gets a push ? I hope you did. Well, in that case you can also see the push. I gave you the vid and the minute where you can PERFECTLY see the push that Rossi gives to Lorenzo. If you choose to ignore the push, that is your problem. But that doesn't change the fact that Rossi clearly pushed Marquez with his knee and that he falls as a consequence of that push. All the rest is ........ from Rossi fans or from people that got sucked into the Rossi fans Goebels tactics. These Nazi tactics don't work on me. I look at the facts and base my opinion solely on that. Rossi deliberately crashed Marquez with his knee. Every person with sound vision can see that. He should have been blackflagged.
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Shame you weren't in race direction! None of them had the Superpower of X-ray vision like you do! Send your application in for a job, you'll get it!!!!!!!!!
 
Harryjones05 said:
Shame you weren't in race direction! None of them had the Superpower of X-ray vision like you do! Send your application in for a job, you'll get it!!!!!!!!!
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I don't have superpower of X-ray vision. The thing is not that the race direction didn't see this. They didn't give Rossi the penalty he deserved in order to make the last race spectacular. Rossi still has enough probability to win the championship. If Rossi would have been stripped of his points and sent last in the grid in Valencia (this is the penalty he actually deserved), the championship would have been over.

Economics were more important than the fairplay of the motorsport. For me the saddest day in history of motorsport.
 
Marc Marquez said:
Look at the vid.
Click to expand...


I have seen all the angles...some appear to support your version of events others dont.

Marc Marquez said:
You can see that Marquez gets a push with Rossi's knee. Have you ever in your life see what happens when somebody or something gets a push ? I hope you did. Well, in that case you can also see the push. I gave you the vid and the minute where you can PERFECTLY see the push that Rossi gives to Lorenzo. If you choose to ignore the push, that is your problem. But that doesn't change the fact that Rossi clearly pushed Marquez with his knee and that he falls as a consequence of that push. All the rest is ........ from Rossi fans or from people that got sucked into the Rossi fans Goebels tactics. These Nazi tactics don't work on me. I look at the facts and base my opinion solely on that. Rossi deliberately crashed Marquez with his knee. Every person with sound vision can see that. He should have been blackflagged.
Click to expand...

I am calm....
 
Marc Marquez said:
I don't have superpower of X-ray vision. The thing is not that the race direction didn't see this. They didn't give Rossi the penalty he deserved in order to make the last race spectacular. Rossi still has enough probability to win the championship. If Rossi would have been stripped of his points and sent last in the grid in Valencia (this is the penalty he actually deserved), the championship would have been over.

Economics were more important than the fairplay of the motorsport. For me the saddest day in history of motorsport.
Click to expand...

Did they strip Karel Hanika of his points after admitting causing a crash on purpose and receiving 5 penalty points on his license?!! I know the answer to that, can you guess?!!
 
Mr Squiggle said:
I have seen all the angles...some appear to support your version of events others dont.
Click to expand...
Now we are getting there. At least now you admit that in the specific angle I mention, you did notice a push. Great. We are making progress here.

Now have a look a this video:



This is another angle. The push is again very clear to me. 2 different angles showing clearly a push. I don't know which angles you mean in which you don't see the push, but these 2 angles show all the information you need. Of course, if there is a camera that is filming the clouds in the sky, of course Rossi's push can't be seen on that camera.
 

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